Archive - Yahoo forum posts, 2010 May 24-31

Eventually, all posts from the old Yahoo Baseball Games Forum, 2004-2013. Registered members may read, but posting here is by forum administrators/moderators only. Comments on posts here, however, are welcome in the main Baseball Games forum (above) or the Baseball Sims forum (below).

Archive - Yahoo forum posts, 2010 May 24-31

BaseballGamesBKW
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Oct 2013, 10:10

10 Nov 2017, 08:19 #1

BASEBALLGAMES FORUM 2010 May 24 - 31, Messages 6194 -  6240 

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Message #6194 Sun May 23, 2010 4:11 pm 
"Rex C" <rexcharger(at)yahoo.com>
electronic baseball game with lightbulbs

i'm looking for info on a baseball game that was played with 2 people pressing 
red and black buttons, that would light up lughtbulbs on an x and y axis, that would 
tell you what the pay result was. sounds weird and obscure, I know, but i cannot 
remember the name of it. 

it was a multi sport device, with each sport having its own overlay. 

each player had 5 buttons, 1 red and 4 black. you had to press the red and 
one of the black simultaneously. the other player did the same, and this 
completed the circuit, and lit two of the lightbulbs; one of the horizontal row 
(A-J), and one of the vetical column (0-9). lets say B-3 for example.so you 
read the play in B-3, and thats what happened; ie ball, single, strike, etc. 

anyone with any info on this game, please let me know. 
thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6195 Sun May 23, 2010 4:43 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: electronic baseball game with lightbulbs 

Howdy Rex, welcome to the group and thanks for your question!  What you've described 
sounds an awful to us like any one of the game medleys manufactured by Electronic 
Data Controls between 1969 and about 1974. Those were produced featuring various 
combinations of sports, and under a variety of similar titles such as "Computer Sports 
Games, *Computamatic Games,* and *5 Computer Games in One.*  If we're talking 
about the same game(s) you're trying to remember, it was a big honkin' thing, right?, 
about 20x16", wood or faux-wood base and frame, formica-like plastic playing surface?  
If we're way off track, let us know and we'll try to figure out what you're looking for. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "Rex C" wrote:
<< i'm looking for info on a baseball game that was played with 2 people pressing 
    red and black buttons, that would light up lughtbulbs on an x and y axis, that would 
    tell you what the pay result was. sounds weird and obscure, I know, but i cannot 
    remember the name of it. it was a multi sport device, with each sport having 
    its own overlay.  each player had 5 buttons, 1 red and 4 black. you had to press 
    the red and one of the black simultaneously. the other player did the same, and this 
    completed the circuit, and lit two of the lightbulbs; one of the horizontal row (A-J), 
    and one of the vetical column (0-9). lets say B-3 for example.so you read the play 
    in B-3, and thats what happened; ie ball, single, strike, etc. 
    anyone with any info on this game, please let me know. thanks! 
>>
______________________________________________

To reply to a message or post a new message
at the Baseballgames forum/e-list, visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
on the web and click on "Post" in the lefthand
menu, or simply send your e-mail to:
baseballgames(at)yahoogroups.com
______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6196 Mon May 24, 2010 12:21 pm 
"bobscanman" <bobscanman(at)yahoo.com>
1950's baseball board game with spinner 

I am searching for the name of a 1950's baseball board game with spinner that 
I spent may hours playing as a boy. Unfortunately my parents threw it out and 
I don't remember its name or manufacturer. The game came with a seperate 
cardboard spinner which was about 4"x4" with a raised rectangle in the middle 
about 1 1/2"x1/2".  The spinner was in the middle of this rectangle.  You would 
then create two teams using round cardboard discs with the name of a player 
on the disc. The disc had the same rectangular cut out and was placed on the 
spinner.  The disc was divided into a pie using numbers to indicate homeruns, 
singles, doubles, outs etc.  Based on the individual player it would determine the 
size of pie the sections.  For example Ernie Banks would have a large #1 (home run)
section were as Richie Asburn would have a very narrow #1 section or some pitchers 
would have no #1 section at all, unless it was Don Newcome!  It would love to hear 
from someone if they know the name of this vintage board game. 
Thank you very much.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6197 Mon May 24, 2010 1:27 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: 1950's baseball board game with spinner 

Hiya Bob, welcome to the group and thanks for your question!  We always enjoy the 
many "what's this game I remember from boyhood?" questions we get here -- some 
are real head-scratchers, asking about some obscure, short-lived game, requiring 
a lot a of reseach and guesswork.  Yours, not so tough!  Your game is one of the 
best-known and best-loved tabletop baseball games ever made. 

It was produced with several subtle changes to the title over the years, but since you 
had it in the '50s, it probably went by *Ethan Allen's All-Star Baseball Game,* 
*Ethan Allen's All-Star Baseball,* or just *All-Star Baseball.*  The manufacturer was 
Cadaco-Ellis, later just Cadaco, and it was in continuous production from 1941 to 1994, 
with a different set of player disks issued each year.  Alternate editions were also 
made from 1945-1954 and in 1957, 1971, 1979, and the early '90s, and production 
was revived in 2003 and '04. 

You'll be happy to know that various editions of the game are *always* available on eBay, 
ranging from yard-sale prices to several hundred dollars, depending on the edition 
(some of the older ones are scarce and avidly sought by collectors and "ASB" fans) 
and the condition and completeness of the game. 

Even better, we can direct you to our "sibling" Yahoo group, "CadacoAllStarBaseball Game," 
at http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cad ... eballGame/ 
-- which is dedicated exclusively to Ethan Allen's game and where you'll find more 
than 500 enthusiastic spinners discussing disk sets, "house rule" variations and 
adaptations of the original game, results from their ASB leagues and series, and 
baseball in general, as well as disk-making software so you can crank out your own 
disks right on your printer.

We hope that helps!  Anything else you'd like to know, just ask!

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "bobscanman" wrote:
<< I am searching for the name of a 1950's baseball board game with spinner that 
I spent may hours playing as a boy. Unfortunately my parents threw it out and 
I don't remember its name or manufacturer. The game came with a seperate 
cardboard spinner which was about 4"x4" with a raised rectangle in the middle 
about 1 1/2"x1/2".  The spinner was in the middle of this rectangle.  You would 
then create two teams using round cardboard discs with the name of a player 
on the disc. The disc had the same rectangular cut out and was placed on the 
spinner.  The disc was divided into a pie using numbers to indicate homeruns, 
singles, doubles, outs etc.  Based on the individual player it would determine the 
size of pie the sections.  For example Ernie Banks would have a large #1 (home run)
section were as Richie Asburn would have a very narrow #1 section or some pitchers 
would have no #1 section at all, unless it was Don Newcome!  It would love to hear 
from someone if they know the name of this vintage board game. 
Thank you very much.

>>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6198 Mon May 24, 2010 1:38 pm 
"Chris Shockey" <farpointgaming(at)gmail.com> acwmichbrig
Re: 1950's baseball board game with spinner

Bob,
That would be Ethan Allen Baseball, also known as Cadaco All-Star Baseball.

Chris Shockey

--- "bobscanman" wrote:
> I am searching for the name of a 1950's baseball board game with spinner that 
> I spent may hours playing as a boy. Unfortunately my parents threw it out and 
> I don't remember its name or manufacturer. The game came with a seperate 
> cardboard spinner which was about 4"x4" with a raised rectangle in the middle 
> about 1 1/2"x1/2". The spinner was in the middle of this rectangle. You would 
> then create two teams using round cardboard discs with the name of a player 
> on the disc. The disc had the same rectangular cut out and was placed on the 
> spinner. The disc was divided into a pie using numbers to indicate homeruns, 
> singles, doubles, outs etc.... would love to hear from someone if they know 
> the name of this vintage board game. Thank you very much. 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6199 Mon May 24, 2010 11:42 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s?     

Hi again fellers -- the message below was sent around 4:30pm EDT Monday by new 
member "robotoole," and an interesting thing it is. We approved it minutes after it 
came in. However, it's coming up on midnight here, and as we mentioned in our 
preceding post, Yahoo still has yet to have his post appear in the Forum/e-list.  
His original message may show up in minutes, or sometime Tuesday, or never, 
so we're reposting it for him now. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
--------------------------------------------

Date: 5/24/2010 4:31:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
To: baseballgames(at)yahoogroups.com
From: "robotoole" <hugesmile(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s?

I'm looking for information about this dice baseball game that my Dad taught 
his kid from memory.  He played it as a child, and memorized PART of the game 
- enough to play full games. 

My Dad taught it to me in 1973, and it was a board game that he had when he 
was a kid in the late 1930's or early '40's.  But he taught it to me from memory, 
so details are sketchy and second hand at this point. He told me that he enjoyed 
having a league when he was a kid, and so we did the same in the 70's.  We 
enjoyed many years of league play, making up our own teams, tracking stats, etc. 

I've searched the internet for this game numerous times, but cannot find anyone 
mentioning it.  I'd like to find out more about the game (like the complete set of 
rules, what the game was actually called, and the manufacturer), so I'm hoping 
maybe someone will recognize it. 

I'll tell you everything I know about the game.  As I mentioned, it was handed down 
to me by memory, so there could be holes or inaccuracies. 

My dad simply called the game "Dice Baseball". It was purely a game of chance - 
no skill involved.  And there were no player cards linking it to Major League Baseball.  
For league play, you'd create a team of players (making up names), and track stats. 

The beauty of the game from my perspective was that it was simple enough to be 
able to be memorized by an interested 10 year old, and could be played anywhere 
with 2 "regular" 6-sided dice.  No special dice necessary. No colored dice.  No need 
to be able to tell one die from the other to read the chart. It's the only variation of 
Dice Baseball that I have seen that uses this particular chart look-up mechanism - 
reading the 2-dice roll as a two-digit number with the smaller digit first.  So rolling 
a 5 and a 2 is read "twenty-five" (not "fifty-two" and most definitely not as the sum of 7). 

I also thought the "pure chance" aspect was pretty nice.  Over a 24 game season, 
you didn't know who would emerge as your home run king. The mathematics of the 
game proved to represent major league baseball event odds fairly well, although 
it might have been tilted a little more to the hitter than the pitcher.  But 5-3 games 
weren't unheard of.  Or even an occasional 1-0 game.  We used to joke that 
it was a "hitters game" thanks to the lively ball. 

Rules (as recalled from memory by my Dad): It's a 2-player game. 
The game is traditionally played with each player having a pair of dice, although 
it can easily be played with one shared pair of dice.  A game lasts approximately 
45 minutes for experienced players, a little longer for players who need to refer to 
the chart a lot. 

Each "At Bat" would consist of the pitcher throwing a pair of dice as "the pitch". 
Column 1 of the chart is consulted, and the pitch is either a Strike, Ball, or "Swings". 
Strike and Ball are self-explanatory - the pitch is over with that end-result.  "Swings" 
indicates that the batter then has control. The batter then rolls his dice and consults 
column 2.  Column 2 determines if contact was made and if it's a fair ball (so the 
possibilities in column 2 are "hits", "misses", "foul" or "foul out").  In the case of "misses", 
"foul" or "foul out", the outcome of that pitch has been determined, and so the count 
on the batter is updated, and control is returned to the pitcher for the next pitch. 

In the case of "Hits", that means that the batter has hit the ball in fair territory, 
and so the batter rolls the dice again to determine the outcome of the hit.  
The third column is consulted with the next roll. 

The index to the chart is the dice roll, with the digits affixed so that the smaller 
number is read first.  So there are twenty-one possible dice rolls.  If 6 and 1 are rolled, 
this is read as "sixteen", not "sixty-one" (and not "seven"!).  Probabilistically, each 
of the 15 "non-duplicate" dice rolls (i.e. NOT 11, 22, 33, 44, 55, 66) has a 2/36 chance, 
and duplicates have a 1/36 chance.  So several of the less likely events (such as Triple 
and Foul Out) are on the "duplicate" rolls). 

Roll Column 1 Column 2  Column 3
11 Swings      Misses  Single 
12 Ball      Hits    Fly Out 
13 Swings      Hits    Ground Out 
14 Ball      Foul   Double 
15 Swings      Misses  Fly Out 
16 Strike  Hits    Ground Out 
22 Swings      Hits    Single 
23 Swings      Foul   Home Run 
24 Ball      Hits    Fly Out 
25 Strike  Misses  Single 
26 Swings      Hits    Pop Out 
33 Swings      Foul   Error 
34 Ball      Hits    Bunt Out 
35 Strike  Hits    Single 
36 Swings      Misses  Ground Out 
44 Swings      Foul Out   Fly Out 
45 Ball      Hits    Double 
46 Strike  Hits    Ground Out 
55 Swings      Misses  Triple 
56 Swings      Hits    Pop Out 
66 Ball      Hits    Double 
That's it for the rules.  Very simple.

Tips for memorization:
Ball is 14, 24, 34, 45, and 66.  Strike is 16, 25, 35, 46.  4's tend to be balls, 
and the pitcher can't throw a "taken strike" without a 5 or a 6. 
Misses: 11, 15, 25, 36, 55.  Foul:  14, 23, 33.
6's tend to be good for the hitter - and 4's too, except 14 and that pesky 44.

If you play a couple of games, you'll likely have the chart nearly memorized.

What else I know about the game from the 1930's: 
Apparently it was a board game, and it was slightly more complicated that 
the rules that were memorized by my Dad and handed down. As I understand it, 
Columns 1 and 2 remained the same for every batter.  But column 3 varied 
depending on the position of the base runners, adding in double plays and 
triple plays, and determining how many bases the runners advanced.  So there 
were eight variations of column 3, including the one above, depending on the 
current position of the base runners.  The one listed above is the chart that 
you'd use if no runners were on base, and so it was the most commonly used 
chart (hence it survived 30+ years of memorization, twice!).  There were other 
charts that were not handed down, or memorized - a chart for each possible 
runner configuration. That is, a chart that you'd use if there was a sole runner 
on first, a different chart for bases loaded, etc.  That would imply that there 
were 7 other charts that have been lost. 

My dad also recalled a little more information about the chart above.  
He remembers that the game told who made the put-out. 
12 was a Fly Out to Center Field. 
13 was a Ground out to Third. 
15 was a Fly Out to Left. 
16 was a Ground Out to Short. 
24 was a Fly Out to Right. 
36 was a Ground Out to Second. 
44 was a Fly Out to Center. 
46 was a Ground Out to Short. 
56 was a Pop Out to the Pitcher. 

Does it sound familiar to anybody?  All info is appreciated.  And if you don't 
recognize it, but like Tabletop Baseball, Start a Dice Baseball League!  It's fun! 
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6200 Tue May 25, 2010 2:37 pm 
"kermudjn9" 
Even yet still more Yahoo glitches, redux 

Hey gang -- your front-office Oompa-loompas (well, webmeister Butch, mainly) have tried
to post the following message *six times* now since around 11:30pm EDT Monday night, 
and as of 1pm Tuesday it has yet to show up. We're wondering if it's possible Butch has 
been red-flagged at some automated Yahoo cybergate for his frequent (and entirely valid) 
criticisms of Yahoo's software and non-existent "customer service," so we're gonna try to 
post an *updated* version of the message (below) using my sign-in instead and see if it 
goes through.  Don't be too surprised if the original message suddenly appears three or 
four or six times sometime later today or Wednesday. 

To those of you who've sent messages to the forum/e-list since Sunday afternoon and 
have yet to see them appear, please be patient. We have them queued up here, and 
they should be posted soon, but we won't approve them for posting until we're sure 
they won't get irretrievably lost in cyberspace like Rob's message which Butch transcribed 
and re-posted. Oh, by the way, Rob, we know your game... 

-- the Big K
----------------------------------------------
Hiya fellers -- we're repeating a message here that we tried to post around 11:40pm EDT 
Monday night, and which has yet to show up on the Forum/e-list.  And that's the gist of 
the problem -- Yahoo has once more yet again gone haywire with their forum software. 
Messages approved for posting began appearing ever more slowly Sunday and Monday, 
with lags between moderator approval and the arrival of those posts growing from ten minutes 
to half an hour to more than two hours to, finally, not appearing at all (although they may 
appear eventually, resulting in double posts of the same messages). 

Rob's inquiry about a 1930s boardgame was the one that finally just disappeared into 
the cybernetic ether, failing to show up more than seven hours (now over 21 hours) 
after it was approved for posting, which is why we transcribed it and posted it ourselves.  
At least our forwarded version of it did arrive at last, although an earlier version of this 
very message is now more than fourteen hours overdue to appear.  And so we're trying 
again, just to let you know that you may have to expect more disruptive delays for who 
knows, another day, another week...  Pardon any posts that may appear twice.  We're 
off now to nag Yahoo into some semblance of service.  "Free" (not really -- every Yahoo 
forum is a billboard for their advertisers) is not an excuse for "incompetent." 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6201 Tue May 25, 2010 1:37 am 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Even yet still more Yahoo glitches 

Hiya fellers -- we're repeating a message here that we tried to post around 11:40pm EDT 
Monday night, and which has yet to show up on the Forum/e-list.  And that's the gist of 
the problem -- Yahoo has once more yet again gone haywire with their forum software. 
Messages approved for posting began appearing ever more slowly Sunday and Monday, 
with lags between moderator approval and the arrival of those posts growing from ten minutes 
to half an hour to more than two hours to, finally, not appearing at all (although they may 
appear eventually, resulting in double posts of the same messages). 

Rob's inquiry about a 1930s boardgame was the one that finally just disappeared into 
the cybernetic ether, failing to show up more than seven hours (now over 21 hours) 
after it was approved for posting, which is why we transcribed it and posted it ourselves.  
At least our forwarded version of it did arrive at last, although an earlier version of this 
very message is now more than fourteen hours overdue to appear.  And so we're trying 
again, just to let you know that you may have to expect more disruptive delays for who 
knows, another day, another week...  Pardon any posts that may appear twice.  We're 
off now to nag Yahoo into some semblance of service.  "Free" (not really -- every Yahoo 
forum is a billboard for their advertisers) is not an excuse for "incompetent." 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6202 Tue May 25, 2010 1:21 am 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

Hi there Rob, welcome to the group and thanks for the question!  First off, our 
apologies (even though it's *not our fault!*) for the delay in having your message 
appear.  We've been battling Yahoo off and on for years over their maddeningly 
faulty forum software.  Our reposting of your original message was sent a full 
half an hour *after* our own post about renewed troubles from Yahoo, so as 
you can see, and as most everyone already on board already knows, these 
things can be severely disruptive to the flow of conversation and information. 

Now then, to your recollection (or really your dad's recollection) of this 1930s-'40s 
boardgame...  Like we told another new member just a few posts back, we always 
enjoy the "what's this game I sort of remember?" questions, which memory being 
the malleable thing it is, are often fraught with little distortions in the semi-remembered 
details. So we'll start by congratulating both you and your dad on your razor-sharp 
memories! 

Some of the basics of play -- two dice read separately (an 1886 innovation), different 
results depending on the baserunner situation (originating around 1914), and so on -- 
are actually common to a great many games, especially generic (non-MLB simulation) 
games from the 1920s through 1950s, which are our particular favorites here in the 
front office.  And so at first we thought this one might be a little difficult to put our 
fingers on.  But we sorta recognized some of the specifics you mentioned, and 
your photographic recall of the dice results made identification easy and certain. 

The game your dad played as a boy was *"Lucky 7th" Baseball Game.*  It was first 
published by All-American Games Co in 1937 or '38, then bought out by Ray-Fair, 
who produced it from about 1938 through at least 1940.  It's a fairly tough acquisition 
seventy years later, but it's not quite what ya'd call rare, either -- one shows up 
on eBay maybe once a year on average.  The few sales we've seen average 
around $75. to $90. in decent condition.  It has some nifty box-lid graphics, which 
were in fact used in giant blow-up fashion at the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown for 
their 2008 exhibition of tabletop games.  You can see a photo of the box and the 
Hall exhibit in our Photos section here (click on "Photos" in the left-hand menu, 
then click on the "Home Games" album -- *"Lucky 7th"* is in the second-to-last pic 
in that folder).  It's a little murky because of the sepulchral lighting in the musuem 
exhibit, so let us know if you're keen on seeing a better, brighter photo of the box 
and gameboard / playing field.  And any other questions you have, feel free to 
ask away! 

We just have to add, too, that it was a great story you provided about the game 
being handed down -- in spirit, if no longer in cardboard -- from one generation 
to the next.  It's how the guys here in the front office got into tabletop baseball 
many years ago as kids, with another version of dice baseball (probably based 
on the Parker Brothers' baseball games of the the 1890s through the 1930s, 
which were in turn based on that 1886 game to which we alluded) handed down 
to us by our own dads and uncles, who'd played that version as kids themselves 
in the 1930s.  Cool. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "robotoole" wrote:
<< I'm looking for information about this dice baseball game that my Dad taught 
his kid from memory.  He played it as a child, and memorized PART of the game 
- enough to play full games. 
My Dad taught it to me in 1973, and it was a board game that he had when he 
was a kid in the late 1930's or early '40's.  But he taught it to me from memory, 
so details are sketchy and second hand at this point. He told me that he enjoyed 
having a league when he was a kid, and so we did the same in the 70's.  We 
enjoyed many years of league play, making up our own teams, tracking stats, etc. 
I've searched the internet for this game numerous times, but cannot find anyone 
mentioning it.  I'd like to find out more about the game (like the complete set of 
rules, what the game was actually called, and the manufacturer), so I'm hoping 
maybe someone will recognize it. 
I'll tell you everything I know about the game.  As I mentioned, it was handed down 
to me by memory, so there could be holes or inaccuracies.... 
... 
... What else I know about the game from the 1930's: 
Apparently it was a board game, and it was slightly more complicated that the 
rules that were memorized by my Dad and handed down.... 
... 
Does it sound familiar to anybody?  All info is appreciated.... 
>>  
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6204 Tue May 25, 2010 6:37 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
For those of you scoring along at home... 

Well, that was more confusing than trying to record a double play involving two errors and 
a run-down on your scorecard.  We warned ya! In case anyone's trying to keep the last two 
days' conversation straight, everything was cool right up through Chris' post ("Re: 1950s 
baseball board game with spinner") which finally appeared in the forum at 3:17 Monday, 
almost two hours after we approved it. 

Rob's message ("Anybody know of this dice baseball game from 1930s?"), sent and 
approved around 4:30 Monday, still hadn't shown up by late Monday evening (and likely 
never will).  As a result, we became aware of the message-forwarding/post-approval 
problem, so we sent "Even yet still more Yahoo glitches" later that evening, and then 
transcribed and approved a new version of Rob's message.  Our re-do of Rob's post 
finally appeared at quarter past midnight Tuesday -- but our heads-up post about Yahoo 
problems (which should have preceded Rob's copied/forwarded message) never arrived 
in the Forum, nor (until just now) did our circa-midnight message in answer to Rob's post. 

In the wee hours Tuesday, and again Tuesday morning, we tried several times to re-send 
the "Yahoo glitches" message;  some showed up for moderator action and were approved for 
posting but failed to reach the Forum, others never showed up at all and disappeared into 
the ether.  Tuesday afternoon, then, we tried (several more times) sending it from Kerm's 
account, with a similar lack of success, until one finally appeared at 4:42.  Then one of 
the original "Yahoo glitches" posts appeared at 5:21, somewhere between eight and 
seventeen hours after it was sent and approved.  Another arrived 14 minutes later. 

In between those, at 5:27, our Monday night response (to Rob's Monday afternoon message, 
which had disappeared and which we re-sent just before midnight) finally showed up 
more than 16 hours late. 

We have three or four more messages, from various members, in queue right now (6:30pm) 
awaiting approval -- not including our 3pm attempt at the "Yahoo glitches" message, 
which arrived in the queue at 6pm, and a 2pm attempt at same that just now arrived 
at 6:30.  Hang tight, we'll get all of your messages up in the Forum/e-list as soon as 
Yahoo is done randomly coughing up whatever else it swallowed the past two days. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
______________________________________________

To reply to a message or post a new message
at the Baseballgames forum/e-list, visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
on the web and click on "Post" in the lefthand
menu, or simply send your e-mail to:
baseballgames(at)yahoogroups.com
______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6205 Mon May 24, 2010 11:50 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Still yet even more Yahoo glitches 

Hiya fellers -- sorry to have to announce this for the umpteenth time in the six years 
we've had this Forum/e-list on-line, but our Yahoo hosts are, oy, yet once more again 
giving us technical problems.  Messages approved for posting Sunday and Monday 
began appearing ever more slowly and with ever greater lags between the time they 
were approved and the time they finally showed up in the Forum -- not almost instantly 
as they should, and normally do, but ten minutes, a half an hour, then two hours after 
moderator approval, and now we must report a post lost in the cybernetic ether for 
more than seven hours and still counting.  We'll re-post that one ourselves -- if we can! 
-- momentarily.  No telling how long it might take for this post to appear in the Forum 
and your e-mailboxes. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/ 
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6206 Tue May 25, 2010 12:02 pm 
"regiehaug" <regiehaug(at)yahoo.com>
jim prentis electric baseball C1953 73B 

I recently bought this game but it doesn't have the instructions. Can anyone help? 
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6207 Tue May 25, 2010 2:57 pm 
"mainembc" <ma.bercol(at)gmail.com>
Strat o Matic question! 

Hello,
I am also researching a lot of Strat-o-Matic cards, and have done quite well 
up to this point... 

However, I now have 20 Nameless Player Cards and a card with them describing 
how to use the system - Basic on one side, Advanced on the reverse - that I have 
no idea about, though I have looked through various information that I have. 

I do not know to which year they belong. I have taken pictures of one of the 
Nameless player cards and the other card with descriptions of how to use them, 
but am not sure how to post them. One side of the cards is glossy, black on white, 
while the other side is blue on white, and does not feel to be glossy. They are the 
same size as the Original Cut Stock Strat cards. 

Appreciate any help.
  M
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6208 Mon May 24, 2010 4:27 pm 
"robotoole" <hugesmile(at)hotmail.com>
Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

I'm looking for information about this dice baseball game that my Dad taught 
his kid from memory.  He played it as a child, and memorized PART of the game 
- enough to play full games. 

My Dad taught it to me in 1973, and it was a board game that he had when he 
was a kid in the late 1930's or early '40's.  But he taught it to me from memory, 
so details are sketchy and second hand at this point. He told me that he enjoyed 
having a league when he was a kid, and so we did the same in the 70's.  We 
enjoyed many years of league play, making up our own teams, tracking stats, etc. 

I've searched the internet for this game numerous times, but cannot find anyone 
mentioning it.  I'd like to find out more about the game (like the complete set of 
rules, what the game was actually called, and the manufacturer), so I'm hoping 
maybe someone will recognize it. 

I'll tell you everything I know about the game.  As I mentioned, it was handed down 
to me by memory, so there could be holes or inaccuracies. 

My dad simply called the game "Dice Baseball". It was purely a game of chance - 
no skill involved.  And there were no player cards linking it to Major League Baseball.  
For league play, you'd create a team of players (making up names), and track stats. 

The beauty of the game from my perspective was that it was simple enough to be 
able to be memorized by an interested 10 year old, and could be played anywhere 
with 2 "regular" 6-sided dice.  No special dice necessary. No colored dice.  No need 
to be able to tell one die from the other to read the chart. It's the only variation of 
Dice Baseball that I have seen that uses this particular chart look-up mechanism - 
reading the 2-dice roll as a two-digit number with the smaller digit first.  So rolling 
a 5 and a 2 is read "twenty-five" (not "fifty-two" and most definitely not as the sum of 7). 

I also thought the "pure chance" aspect was pretty nice.  Over a 24 game season, 
you didn't know who would emerge as your home run king. The mathematics of the 
game proved to represent major league baseball event odds fairly well, although 
it might have been tilted a little more to the hitter than the pitcher.  But 5-3 games 
weren't unheard of.  Or even an occasional 1-0 game.  We used to joke that 
it was a "hitters game" thanks to the lively ball. 

Rules (as recalled from memory by my Dad): It's a 2-player game. 
The game is traditionally played with each player having a pair of dice, although 
it can easily be played with one shared pair of dice.  A game lasts approximately 
45 minutes for experienced players, a little longer for players who need to refer to 
the chart a lot. 

Each "At Bat" would consist of the pitcher throwing a pair of dice as "the pitch". 
Column 1 of the chart is consulted, and the pitch is either a Strike, Ball, or "Swings". 
Strike and Ball are self-explanatory - the pitch is over with that end-result.  "Swings" 
indicates that the batter then has control. The batter then rolls his dice and consults 
column 2.  Column 2 determines if contact was made and if it's a fair ball (so the 
possibilities in column 2 are "hits", "misses", "foul" or "foul out").  In the case of "misses", 
"foul" or "foul out", the outcome of that pitch has been determined, and so the count 
on the batter is updated, and control is returned to the pitcher for the next pitch. 

In the case of "Hits", that means that the batter has hit the ball in fair territory, 
and so the batter rolls the dice again to determine the outcome of the hit.  
The third column is consulted with the next roll. 

The index to the chart is the dice roll, with the digits affixed so that the smaller 
number is read first.  So there are twenty-one possible dice rolls.  If 6 and 1 are rolled, 
this is read as "sixteen", not "sixty-one" (and not "seven"!).  Probabilistically, each 
of the 15 "non-duplicate" dice rolls (i.e. NOT 11, 22, 33, 44, 55, 66) has a 2/36 chance, 
and duplicates have a 1/36 chance.  So several of the less likely events (such as Triple 
and Foul Out) are on the "duplicate" rolls). 
Roll Column 1 Column 2  Column 3
11 Swings      Misses  Single 
12 Ball      Hits    Fly Out 
13 Swings      Hits    Ground Out 
14 Ball      Foul   Double 
15 Swings      Misses  Fly Out 
16 Strike  Hits    Ground Out 
22 Swings      Hits    Single 
23 Swings      Foul   Home Run 
24 Ball      Hits    Fly Out 
25 Strike  Misses  Single 
26 Swings      Hits    Pop Out 
33 Swings      Foul   Error 
34 Ball      Hits    Bunt Out 
35 Strike  Hits    Single 
36 Swings      Misses  Ground Out 
44 Swings      Foul Out   Fly Out 
45 Ball      Hits    Double 
46 Strike  Hits    Ground Out 
55 Swings      Misses  Triple 
56 Swings      Hits    Pop Out 
66 Ball      Hits    Double 
That's it for the rules.  Very simple.

Tips for memorization:
Ball is 14, 24, 34, 45, and 66.  Strike is 16, 25, 35, 46.  4's tend to be balls, 
and the pitcher can't throw a "taken strike" without a 5 or a 6. 
Misses: 11, 15, 25, 36, 55.  Foul:  14, 23, 33.
6's tend to be good for the hitter - and 4's too, except 14 and that pesky 44.

If you play a couple of games, you'll likely have the chart nearly memorized.

What else I know about the game from the 1930's: 
Apparently it was a board game, and it was slightly more complicated that 
the rules that were memorized by my Dad and handed down. As I understand it, 
Columns 1 and 2 remained the same for every batter.  But column 3 varied 
depending on the position of the base runners, adding in double plays and 
triple plays, and determining how many bases the runners advanced.  So there 
were eight variations of column 3, including the one above, depending on the 
current position of the base runners.  The one listed above is the chart that 
you'd use if no runners were on base, and so it was the most commonly used 
chart (hence it survived 30+ years of memorization, twice!).  There were other 
charts that were not handed down, or memorized - a chart for each possible 
runner configuration. That is, a chart that you'd use if there was a sole runner 
on first, a different chart for bases loaded, etc.  That would imply that there 
were 7 other charts that have been lost. 

My dad also recalled a little more information about the chart above.  
He remembers that the game told who made the put-out. 
12 was a Fly Out to Center Field. 
13 was a Ground out to Third. 
15 was a Fly Out to Left. 
16 was a Ground Out to Short. 
24 was a Fly Out to Right. 
36 was a Ground Out to Second. 
44 was a Fly Out to Center. 
46 was a Ground Out to Short. 
56 was a Pop Out to the Pitcher. 

Does it sound familiar to anybody?  All info is appreciated.  And if you don't 
recognize it, but like Tabletop Baseball, Start a Dice Baseball League!  It's fun! 
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6209 Tue May 25, 2010 10:08 am 
"robotoole" <hugesmile(at)hotmail.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

Thanks for posting my message. Hopefully someone recalls this game. 

Last night, I ran some calculations to see how true-to-life this Dice Baseball 
game works out to be.  It does appear to be quite the hitter's game. 

I calculate the probabilities of each outcome as follows: 

Expected batting average:  .313 

Outcome probabilities:
3.8% -- Walk
15.3% - Strike Out
3.5% -- Foul Out
45.2% - Other out (PO, GO, FO, BO)
2.2% -- Error
12.9% - Single
10.8% - Double
2.2% -- Triple
4.3% -- Home Run

Missing Basic Features:  Hit by Pitch, Line Out, Double Play, Triple Play, 
Runner advancement different than the batter, Strategic Bunting (sacrifice), 
Base Stealing, Tagging up. 

When Dad taught us the game, he mentioned that there was more to the game, 
including charts for "men on".  Prior to our league play, we created a "Men On" 
chart of our own (only one chart - not one for every possible runner configuration), 
and attempted to overcome some of the obvious limitations that we saw. 

Using both the "No Men On" and "Men On" charts, the expected batting average 
was brought down to a more reasonable .283 (It's amazing how our mythical players 
could hit .313 with nobody on base, but they froze with men on, hitting only .246... 
netting an average of .283 - they'd come to the plate with bases empty about 55% 
of the time.) 

We also added all of the missing features listed above, except for Hit By Pitch and 
Triple Play.  And all of this was added in a way that could be (and was) easily 
memorized by our league of 7 kids (ages 8 to 16) and 1 adult.  With our modifications, 
the games would average about 5.5 runs per team per 9 innings. 

I'd be glad to post our entire modified rule-set if anybody's interested.  Or better yet, 
I could tweak the rules to make them even easier to memorize. I hesitated to post it 
initially, since my interest is really in the authentic game, and not our adaptation. 

Being able to play a complete game without ever having to consult charts really made 
the game fun.  Nowhere near the complexity of Strat-o-matic, but still enjoyable. 

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Hi again fellers -- the message below was sent around 4:30pm EDT Monday by 
> new member "robotoole," and an interesting thing it is. We approved it minutes 
> after it came in. However, it's coming up on midnight here, and as we mentioned 
> in our preceding post, Yahoo still has yet to have his post appear in the Forum/e-list.  
> His original message may show up in minutes, or sometime Tuesday, or never, 
> so we're reposting it for him now. 
> B, K, & W
> --------------------------------------------
> From: "robotoole" <hugesmile@...>
> Subject: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 
> I'm looking for information about this dice baseball game that my Dad taught 
> his kid from memory.  He played it as a child, and memorized PART of the game 
> - enough to play full games. My Dad taught it to me in 1973, and it was a 
> board game that he had when he was a kid in the late 1930's or early '40's.  
> But he taught it to me from memory, so details are sketchy and second hand 
> at this point. 
> ...
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6210 Tue May 25, 2010 3:50 pm 
"curt young" <curtyoung13(at)hotmail.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

hey u guys:
i seem to recall that there was a "dice baseball" published in 1 of 
charles einstein's anthologies of baseball, the *fireside book of baseball*?  
i cannot remember which volume contained it or if this was the same game.  
i think the 1 i am thinking of was simpler, but the concept was the same--
no relation to real players, two six-sided dice. can anyone confirm or deny? 

curt young
chittenango NY
kannapolis NC

--- "robotoole" wrote:
> I'm looking for information about this dice baseball game that my Dad taught 
> his kid from memory. He played it as a child, and memorized PART of the game 
> - enough to play full games. My Dad taught it to me in 1973, and it was a 
> board game that he had when he was a kid in the late 1930's or early '40's. 
> But he taught it to me from memory, so details are sketchy and second hand 
> at this point....I'm hoping maybe someone will recognize it.... My dad simply 
> called the game "Dice Baseball". It was purely a game of chance - no skill 
> involved. And there were no player cards linking it to Major League Baseball. 
> For league play, you'd create a team of players (making up names), and 
> track stats.
> ... could be played anywhere with 2 "regular" 6-sided dice. No special dice 
> necessary. No colored dice. No need to be able to tell one die from the other 
> to read the chart.... 
> ...  
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6211 Tue May 25, 2010 7:55 pm 
"robotoole" <hugesmile(at)hotmail.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

Thanks for identifying the game! I'm glad you appreciated my story. 
Dice Baseball brings back some great memories of times shared with 
my family  growing up. 

Dad told us that his original game was damaged during a game when he was 
a kid, and he was soundly beating my uncle. My uncle poured a glass of water 
on the board and called it a rain out. 

In the 70's, every year we had league play ranging from 20-30 games over 
the summer, and an All-Star game (where every team owner rolled for his 
represented players), and playoffs and World Series.  It was fun. 

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> ... Like we told another new member just a few posts back, we always enjoy 
> the "what's this game I sort of remember?" questions, which memory being the 
> malleable thing it is, are often fraught with little distortions in the semi-remembered 
> details. So we'll start by congratulating both you and your dad on your razor-sharp 
> memories! Some of the basics of play... are actually common to a great many games
> ...  And so at first we thought this one might be a little difficult to put our fingers on. 
> But we sorta recognized some of the specifics you mentioned, and your photographic 
> recall of the dice results made identification easy and certain. 
> The game your dad played as a boy was *"Lucky 7th" Baseball Game.*  It was first 
> published by All-American Games Co in 1937 or '38, then bought out by Ray-Fair, 
> who produced it from about 1938 through at least 1940.... 
> We just have to add, too, that it was a great story you provided about the game 
> being handed down -- in spirit, if no longer in cardboard -- from one generation 
> to the next....
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6212 Wed May 26, 2010 8:26 am 
"Robert Scannevin" <bobscanman(at)yahoo.com>
Re: re: 1950's baseball board game with spinner

Thank you very much Chris, it is much appreciated. 
  Bob

--- "Chris Shockey" wrote:
> Bob, That would be Ethan Allen Baseball, also known as Cadaco All-Star Baseball.
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6213 Wed May 26, 2010 8:33 am 
"Robert Scannevin" <bobscanman(at)yahoo.com>
Re: re: 1950's baseball board game with spinner

Thank you so much, it is greatly appreciated,
  Bob

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Hiya Bob, welcome to the group and thanks for your question! We always enjoy 
> the many "what's this game I remember from boyhood?" questions we get here -- 
> some are real head-scratchers, asking about some obscure, short-lived game, 
> requiring a lot a of reseach and guesswork. Yours, not so tough! Your game is 
> one of the best-known and best-loved tabletop baseball games ever made. 
> It was produced with several subtle changes to the title over the years, but since 
> you had it in the '50s, it probably went by *Ethan Allen's All-Star Baseball Game* ... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6214 Wed May 26, 2010 2:56 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Is it working now? 

Hiya fellers -- thanks for your forebearance during Yahoo's latest technical snafu! 
As of Wednesday afternoon, it seems like the shelling has stopped, so we're gonna 
go ahead and delete some of the duplicate messages (another side-effect of Yahoo's 
"upgrade") from the board itself, although that won't have spared those of you on the 
e-list who received those at home...  sorry about your having had to put up with that. 

Patience, please, some of you new members still awaiting a response to your posts... 
The Sunday-through-Tuesday mess isn't an unprecedented sort of situation here with 
Yahoo, but it's not the typical situation either, and we'll get to everyone shortly, as usual. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/ 
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6215 Wed May 26, 2010 3:18 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: re: 1950's baseball board game with spinner

You're very welcome, Bob, no problem at all. We should note that Chris 
answered you literally just a minute after we posted our reply to you (and before 
our reply appeared in the Forum/e-list), but his response got swirled around for 
two hours in Yahoo's software. 

We do encourage you to head over to eBay and pick up a nice inexpensive 
*All-Star Baseball Game* for yourself, and then start spinning again with the 
friendly gang at "CadacoAllStarBaseball Game" -- 
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cad ... eballGame/

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "Robert Scannevin" wrote:
> Thank you so much, it is greatly appreciated...
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6216 Wed May 26, 2010 4:00 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: jim prentice electric baseball C1953 73B 

Hiya Regie, welcome to the group and thanks for your question!  Here in the 
front office, we've got at least half a dozen different Jim Prentice models, 
but not the 73B nor any that are much like it.  Hopefully, at least one of the 
other 1100-some folks on board has it and can help you out, so stick around 
and keep your fingers crossed! 

In the meantime, you might want to keep an eye on eBay as well.  The 73 and 73B 
show up there pretty regularly, and you might see one offered that includes the 
instructions.  While you already own the game and won't want to buy another, 
you might try asking the vendor if they'd be willing to photocopy the instructions 
for you for a nominal price -- we've had some success that way in the past with 
other games that were missing their instructions. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "regiehaug" wrote:
> I recently bought this game but it doesn't have the instructions. 
> Can anyone help?
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6217 Wed May 26, 2010 4:24 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Einstein anthology game (was: Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game,,)

Hey there Curt, thanks for the comments and question!  There've been at least 
a dozen or so games produced over the years using some form of "Dice Baseball" 
or "Baseball Dice" as their title, and many dozens more baseball games that use 
dice, but we're unfamiliar with a version published in Einstein's book.  We'd be 
interested to learn more about it, so hopefully someone on board can find it 
on their home bookshelf. 

The Einstein game you recall wasn't Rob's game -- that was *"Lucky 7th" 
Baseball Game* -- but we should mention, here, too, that your reply to Rob's 
question arrived here (and was approved for posting) just moments after our 
reply to Rob (and hours *before* our reply finally appeared), but got spun around 
endlessly in the Yahoo Bass-O-Matic and unfortunately didn't appear in the 
Forum/e-list until many hours thereafter. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "curt young" wrote:
<< hey u guys:
  i seem to recall that there was a "dice baseball" published in 1 of 
  charles einstein's anthologies of baseball, the *fireside book of baseball*?  
  i cannot remember which volume contained it or if this was the same game.  
  i think the 1 i am  thinking of was simpler, but the concept was the same--
  no relation to real players, two six-sided dice. can anyone confirm or deny? 
>>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6218 Wed May 26, 2010 4:38 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Strat o Matic question! 

Hi again Mary, thanks for your question! It may gotten a bit lost in the little 
chaos that Yahoo wreaked on the Forum the past couple of days, but hopefully 
one of the many Strat experts on board will have an answer for you momentarily. 
No need to post pics of the Nameless Player cards -- Strat fans are very familiar 
with them.  Did the NP cards you have accompany a season set of "regular" 
player cards?  Presumably they'd be from the same season set... 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "mainembc" wrote:
<< ... I am also researching a lot of  Strat-o-Matic cards, and have done quite
   well up to this point... However, I now have 20 Nameless Player Cards and 
   a card with them describing how to use the system - Basic on one side, Advanced 
   on the reverse - that I have no idea about, though I have looked through various 
   information that I have. I do not know to which year they belong. I have taken 
   pictures of one of the Nameless player cards and the other card with descriptions 
   of how to use them, but am not sure how to post them. One side of the cards is 
   glossy, black on white, while the other side is blue on white, and does not feel 
   to be glossy. They are the same size as the Original Cut Stock Strat cards. 
   Appreciate any help....
>>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6219 Wed May 26, 2010 4:53 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

Hi again Rob, we're glad we could be of help!  Horrible to picture a nice 
*"Lucky 7th'* deliberately inundated like that, but in fact we have a similar 
"rain-out" rule in our own home-brew dice-game league... 

Curious to know if there was any glimmer of recognition on your dad's part 
with the revelation of the game's title ("ah! jeez!  yep, that was it!," or "hmmph, 
that don't sound right..." or whatever). By the way, *"Lucky 7th"* did, or does, 
include rules for bunt and steal attempts.  We wouldn't recommend trying to 
steal -- the success rate looks like it was maybe based on Russ Nixon's stats... 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "robotoole" wrote:
<< Thanks for identifying the game! I'm glad you appreciated my story. 
    Dice Baseball brings back some great memories of times shared with 
    my family growing up. 
    Dad told us that his original game was damaged during a game when 
    he was a kid, and he was soundly beating my uncle. My uncle poured 
    a glass of water on the board and called it a rain out. 
    In the 70's, every year we had league play ranging from 20-30 games 
    over the summer, and an All-Star game (where every team owner 
    rolled for his represented players), and playoffs and World Series.  
    It was fun.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6220 Wed May 26, 2010 10:46 am 
"regie.haug" <regie.haug(at)yahoo.com>
jim prentiss electric baseball 

Anyone know where I cn get a set of instructions for this game? 
Made around 1948-50. 
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6221 Wed May 26, 2010 5:15 pm 
"wilfredo" <wilfred512001(at)yahoo.com>
On Hot Corner baseball game-- Baseball Digest -- 

Here i recall that there was a game that was published exclusively frequently, 
on all the numbers, almost ( at least it is the only place i saw the ad) in the 
Baseball Digest magazine. The ad read : 

Hot Corner Baseball by  (LA ESQUINA CALIENTE !!!
--WHAT A WONDERFUL NAME!! 3B..

Pro Sports Action, Inc. DEPT 141 
22 Quentin Street  -Milton, MA  02186

Seems it was very complete with ratings for every aspect, and rare plays seasons, 
ect. , very detailed, sorry to hear they cease operations through here.. 

I wish i could get to see one day a copy or buy or get that game by mail or 
by some other means--at least for the formula. 

wilfredo
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6222 Wed May 26, 2010 5:33 pm 
"wilfredo" <wilfred512001(at)yahoo.com>
If using the " evaluating factor formula " 

I see that he Statis pro-card formula uses the "evaluation factor " formula 
to produce their cards--as they do when creating the card they add the at bats 
plus the walks plus the hbp --of a batter- Then they divide the result  for that  
batter by 128 to get the evaluation factor-that they will use then to divide 
the hits, the doubles, triples-homers-ect of that hitter, which will (allegedly) 
give the number of spaces for each item that will be posted(that corresponds 
to be printed) in the batter's card, minus - least some spaces that will be 
placed in the pitcher's card--11 for the hits, e.g. 
I wanted to know,if someone knows , when they do this, they don't need to use 
AT  all, for nothing  the average hitter's statistics for that season nor the average 
pitcher season statistics,to create on the pitcher's card the model to be used? 
and why? why is this ? In terms of math and accuracy and probabilities- does 
this formula or procedure gives a more accurate baseball card or just a more 
simplier one ? Does strat-o-matic uses the average league year statistics 
at all ? I do know that the bigger the chances-example, using three dices 
-not added but combined, e.g. the more probabilities of accuracy-they 
increase- or not necessarily ?

wilfredo 

Not an easy one , conscious of this, but it revolves continuously on my mind. 
If someone could at least give an opinion without much controversy-that is 
without getting into the accuracy question maybe -just on the procedure-
methodology. 
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6223 Wed May 26, 2010 5:34 pm 
"curt young" <curtyoung13(at)hotmail.com>
Re: re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

hey u guys:
this lucky 7th dice baseball must be really true-to-life.  "huge" mentions 
bases empty 55% of the time in his leagues. 
lindsey [1963, quoted in curveball, p153] has bases empty in MLB 55.3% of 
the time based on seasons around 1960, a number we use a lot in simulations.  
some1 put a lot of thought into that game over the years. 

curt young

--- "hugesmile" wrote:
> ... I calculate the probabilities of each outcome as follows: 
> Expected batting average: .313 
> Outcome probabilities: 
> 3.8% -- Walk
> 15.3% - Strike Out
> 3.5% -- Foul Out
> 45.2% - Other out (PO, GO, FO, BO)
> 2.2% -- Error
> 12.9% - Single
> 10.8% - Double
> 2.2% -- Triple
> 4.3% -- Home Run
> ...
> Using both the "No Men On" and "Men On" charts, the expected batting average 
> was brought down to a more reasonable .283  (It's amazing how our mythical 
> players could hit .313 with nobody on base, but they froze with men on, hitting 
> only .246... netting an average of .283 - they'd come to the plate with bases empty 
> about 55% of the time.) ... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6224 Wed May 26, 2010 7:37 pm 
"yankfans_1961" <yankfans_1961(at)yahoo.com>
Re: Einstein anthology game (was: Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game,,) 

The Dice Baseball game Curt remembers is from Charles Einstein's Second 
Fireside Book of Baseball

Butch, I am sending you a PDF version of the game as published in the 1958 book. 
  Dave

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Hey there Curt, thanks for the comments and question!  There've been at least 
> a dozen or so games produced over the years using some form of "Dice Baseball" 
> or "Baseball Dice" as their title, and many dozens more baseball games that use 
> dice, but we're unfamiliar with a version published in Einstein's book.  We'd be 
> interested to learn more about it, so hopefully someone on board can find it 
> on their home bookshelf....
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6225 Wed May 26, 2010 7:56 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: jim prentiss electric baseball 

Hello again Regie, is it the 73B you're asking about again here, or is this 
another Prentice model? 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "regie.haug" wrote:
<< Anyone know where I cn get a set of instructions for this game?
    Made around 1948-50.
>>
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Message #6226 Wed May 26, 2010 10:22 pm 
"Rex C" <rexcharger(at)yahoo.com>
Re: electronic baseball game with lightbulbs 

yep, it was a big one. sounds exactly like it! thanks for the info! 

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Howdy Rex, welcome to the group and thanks for your question!  What you've 
> described sounds an awful lot to us like any one of the game medleys manufactured 
> by Electronic Data Controls between 1969 and about 1974. Those were produced 
> featuring various combinations of sports, and under a variety of similar titles such as 
> "Computer Sports Games, *Computamatic Games,* and *5 Computer Games in One.*  
> If we're talking about the same game(s) you're trying to remember, it was a big honkin' 
> thing, right?, about 20x16", wood or faux-wood base and frame, formica-like plastic 
> playing surface?  If we're way off track, let us know and we'll try to figure out what 
> you're looking for. 
>
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Message #6227 Thu May 27, 2010 12:19 am 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

By some odd coincidence of timing, there's a very nice looking original (All-American 
Games Co) edition of *"Lucky 7th"* for sale over here: 
http://www.icollect247.com/itempage.php?uniqueid=10946

We'd say it's way overpriced, but at least you can see what it looks like.  Basic rules 
(illegible in the reduced photo) are at the lower half of the right panel, bunt and steal 
results at the bottom quarter of the left panel. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "robotoole" wrote:
<< Thanks for identifying the game!  I'm glad you appreciated my story. 
    Dice Baseball brings back some great memories of times shared with my family
    growing up.
    Dad told us that his original game was damaged during a game when he was 
    a kid, and he was soundly beating my uncle. My uncle poured a glass of water 
    on the board and called it a rain out. 
    In the 70's, every year we had league play ranging from 20-30 games over the 
    summer, and an All-Star game (where every team owner rolled for his represented 
    players), and playoffs and World Series.  It was fun. 
>>
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Message #6228 Thu May 27, 2010 1:04 am 
"Anthony" <booduh72(at)yahoo.com>
update 1922 Basebasll: The Modern Game Cards 

I am just letting the group know that there is an update on the 1922 Baseball: 
The Modern Game cards I had up for sale. 

THE CARDS HAVE BEEN SOLD

THank you
ANthony
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Message #6229 Thu May 27, 2010 2:37 am 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Too many e-mails? 

Hiya fellers -- largely as a result, we suspect, of the Yahoo technical problems 
earlier this week that caused some posts to appear in duplicate and triplicate 
(when it wasn't delaying messages by hours and days and making some disappear 
altogether), we've gotten a couple of cordial complaints about receiving too many 
individual e-mails from the group here.  Understandable! 

We'll remind you that you can adjust your membership to instead receive all of a 
day's posts in one single e-mail (the "daily digest"), or to receive no e-mail 
at all (hopefully you'll check in daily at the Forum to read and stay caught up 
on things).  Just click on that "Edit Membership" link just above the title 
masthead on most any page of the Forum. You can change it any way you like, 
as often as you like, whenever you like. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/ 
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Message #6230 Thu May 27, 2010 2:58 am 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Einstein anthology game 

Received, Dave, and thanks very much!  We've added it to the Files section -- 
"DiceBaseball.pdf" in the "Games" folder. 

Embarrassing footnote:  There may be such a thing as having seen too much stuff. 
None of us here in the front office remembered the game or the book when 
Curt asked about it;  once we saw your .pdf file, we all recognized it at once. 
We already had it in our own files;  one of us may even have the book somewhere. 
It's like a couple of months ago when we were about to lay out some fairly 
serious cash (well, serious by our standards anyway, which means actual 
paper money instead of nickels and pocket-lint) for an old baseball game. 
Only at the last minute did one of us remember that we already had that one. 
A friend and fellow collector reassured us by telling us that forgetting what-all 
you've got in your collection is how you know you're a real collector... 
8-I

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "yankfans_1961" wrote:
<< The Dice Baseball game Curt remembers is from Charles Einstein's Second 
    Fireside Book of Baseball
    Butch, I am sending you a PDF version of the game as published in the 1958 book. 
>>
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Message #6231 Thu May 27, 2010 3:14 am 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: On Hot Corner baseball game-- Baseball Digest -- 

Hi Wilfredo, thanks for the questions! *Hot Corner Baseball Game* was published 
in 1991 -- we *think* that was its only year of production, but we stand ready 
to be corrected.  We haven't seen one on eBay in a while (although it's likely 
we missed a few), but it used to show up there a couple of times a year, and sold 
for a very affordable average of about $30. in like-new condition, ranging from 
as little as $10. to as much as $60. 

You can have a look at a couple of cards from the game -- the 1961 "hitter" card 
for Roger Maris and the 1931 "pitcher" card for Lefty Grove -- in the "Viewer Mail" 
album of the Photos section here. 

We're sure a few of the other guys on board own *Hot Corner* or are very familiar 
with it and can tell you much more.  Anybody...? 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "wilfredo" wrote:
<< Here i recall that there was a game...
    Hot Corner Baseball by  (LA ESQUINA CALIENTE !!! 
    --WHAT A WONDERFUL NAME!! 3B.. Pro Sports Action, Inc.... 
    Seems it was very complete with ratings for every aspect, and rare plays seasons, 
    ect. , very detailed, sorry to hear they cease operations through here.. 
    I wish i could get to see one day a copy or buy or get that game by mail or by 
    some other means--at least for the formula. 
>>
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Message #6232 Thu May 27, 2010 6:32 am 
"robotoole" <hugesmile(at)hotmail.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

I haven't run it by my Dad yet. Sadly, a Doctor and an educator by trade, 
his excellent memory is slipping away at age 78.  Mom, his wife of 55 years 
died of Alzheimer's in the spring, and it's all taking its toll. 

I was going to try to enlarge the photo, and present it to him all at once, but 
the quality just isn't good enough to hope to jog a memory - at the risk of 
adding frustration.  If anybody has the game '"Lucky 7th" Baseball Game', and 
can take better photos of the game board, it'd be greatly appreciated. I was 
hoping to get something together for Father's Day. 

If not, and I can't lay my hands on a board in the next couple of months (for much 
cheaper than $250!) then I'll use what I have here, or maybe contact Dr. Cooper 
(owner of the Hall of Fame exhibit), who obviously has a copy of the game. 

Thanks for all your help! 

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> ... we're glad we could be of help! ... Curious to know if there was any glimmer 
> of recognition on your dad's part with the revelation of the game's title ("ah! 
> jeez!  yep, that was it!," or "hmmph, that don't sound right..." or whatever).... 
>
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Message #6233 Thu May 27, 2010 6:44 am 
"robotoole" <hugesmile(at)hotmail.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

Curt-
Just to clarify...
The 55% bases-empty number, and the .283 batting average was with OUR 
modifications to only PART of the original game. 

So you can picture how this happened: back in 1973, Dad relayed what he could 
recall of the 1937 game.  While he was at work the next day, my brother and I, 
the pre-teen math geeks that we were, sat down and worked the probabilities 
of the partial game, and compared it to the Sunday paper Year-to-Date "MLB 
statistics".  We tried to make sure that our additions brought the game more in line 
with the averages (which happened to be the 1973 mid-season numbers that were 
in our paper).

So, "Lucky 7th" may be or may not be in line with MLB stats.  But the small 
portion of the game that we were working with was definitely more of a hitters 
game, so we made modifications that lowered the expected batting average 
by about 30 points.

--- "curt young" wrote:
> ... this lucky 7th dice baseball must be really true-to-life.  "huge" mentions 
> bases empty 55% of the time in his leagues. lindsey [1963, quoted in curveball
> p153] has bases empty in MLB 55.3% of the time based on seasons around 
> 1960, a number we use a lot in simulations.  some1 put a lot of thought into 
> that game over the years.
>
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Message #6234 Thu May 27, 2010 9:15 am 
"Beckner, Derrick" <dgb100(at)psu.edu> pokingwithstick 
Re: If using the " evaluating factor formula " 

I produce cards for Statis Pro Advanced and I redesigned the formula from scratch. 
The rulebook formula is extremely flawed, the reason you give below is just one 
of many.  The pitchers formulae are bordering on pure fantasy.... 

--- "wilfredo" wrote:
> I see that he Statis pro-card formula uses the "evaluation factor " formula 
> to produce their cards--as they do when creating the card they add the at bats 
> plus the walks plus the hbp --of a batter- Then they divide the result for that batter 
> by 128 to get the evaluation factor-that they will use then to divide the hits, the 
> doubles, triples-homers-ect of that hitter, which will (allegedly) give the number 
> of spaces for each item that will be posted(that corresponds to be printed) in the 
> batter's card, minus - least some spaces that will be placed in the pitcher's card--
> 11 for the hits, e.g. I wanted to know,if someone knows , when they do this, they 
> don't need to use AT all, for nothing the average hitter's statistics for that season 
> nor the average pitcher season statistics,to create on the pitcher's card the model 
> to be used? and why? why is this ? In terms of math and accuracy and probabilities- 
> does this formula or procedure gives a more accurate baseball card or just a more 
> simplier one ? Does strat-o-matic uses the average league year statistics at all ? ... 
> ... Not an easy one , conscious of this, but it revolves continuously on my mind. 
> If someone could at least give an opinion without much controversy-that is without 
> getting into the accuracy question maybe -just on the procedure-methodology. 
>
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Message #6235 Thu May 27, 2010 11:30 am 
"Travis" <smithtc(at)comcast.net> tws32 
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

There is a game listed at the U.S. Patent Office that works a lot like 
the one you have described.

Search for Patent no. 6419227 on the internet. 

Inventor: Thomas W. Barnhardt
Date: Jul. 16, 2002
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Message #6236 Thu May 27, 2010 2:29 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

Hey there Rob, very sorry to hear about that situation.  Believe you us, we can 
empathize more than you could know. For what it's worth, we've sent you, 
off-list, the biggest brightest pic we have of the box lid for *"Lucky 7th"
-- a good sharp pic of the gameboard is a taller order, since it opens up to 
about 21" square and the printed text is pretty small.  Hmmm.... 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "robotoole" wrote: 
<< I haven't run it by my Dad yet. Sadly, a Doctor and an educator by trade, 
 his excellent memory is slipping away at age 78.  Mom, his wife of 55 years 
 died of Alzheimer's in the spring, and it's all taking its toll. 
 I was going to try to enlarge the photo, and present it to him all at once, but 
 the quality just isn't good enough to hope to jog a memory - at the risk of 
 adding frustration.  If anybody has the game '"Lucky 7th" Baseball Game', 
 and can take better photos of the game board, it'd be greatly appreciated. 
 I was hoping to get something together for Father's Day.... 
>
______________________________________________

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______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6237 Thu May 27, 2010 2:09 pm 
"mainembc" <ma.bercol(at)gmail.com>
Re: Strat o Matic question! 

Yes, they came with a set, but unfortunately with so many that are there, I have 
no idea which. Thanks anyway. 

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Hi again Mary, thanks for your question! It may have gotten a bit lost in the little 
> chaos that Yahoo wreaked on the Forum the past couple of days, but hopefully 
> one of the many Strat experts on board will have an answer for you momentarily. 
> No need to post pics of the Nameless Player cards -- Strat fans are very 
> familiar with them.  Did the NP cards you have accompany a season set of 
> "regular" player cards?  Presumably they'd be from the same season set... 
>
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Message #6238 Thu May 27, 2010 2:40 pm 
"robotoole" <hugesmile(at)hotmail.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

Wow.  That's amazing.  So many similarities, but it is definitely not the exact 
chart of outcomes. 

I'm surprised a patent can be granted based on such similar as that of 
65 years earlier!

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6419227.pdf

--- "Travis" wrote:
> There is a game listed at the U.S. Patent Office that works a lot like 
> the one you have described. Search for Patent no. 6419227 on the internet. 
> Inventor: Thomas W. Barnhardt 
> Date: Jul. 16, 2002
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6239 Thu May 27, 2010 2:44 pm 
"robotoole" <hugesmile(at)hotmail.com>
Re: Anybody know of this Dice Baseball game from 1930s? 

That's AWESOME  Thank you! 

The box lid came through email, and is beautiful.  If it's possible to see 
the game board, that'd be fabulous help as well. 

Really appreciate all the help, guys!

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> ... For what it's worth, we've sent you, off-list, the biggest brightest pic 
> we have of the box lid for *"Lucky 7th"* -- a good sharp pic of the gameboard 
> is a taller order, since it opens up to about 21" square and the printed text 
> is pretty small.  Hmmm.... 
>
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Message #6240 Fri May 28, 2010 1:14 am 
"wilfredo" <wilfred512001(at)yahoo.com>
Baseball Classics kindness 

I want just to state publicly  that i received a whole season(1953) i bought 
from bbc, with just two cards---with   some miss-prints on just two (2)OF 
THE WHOLE SET (1953 season cards) cards only ,and the people or friends 
from Baseball classics took the kindness to re-sent again  to me the whole set
(all the cards again) new , corrected !!!-- This action speaks very high about 
their concern and care and kindness to us-their customers, and i wanted you 
all should know this attention to detail, which i appreciate very much from them--- 

wilfredo
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