Archive - Yahoo forum posts, 2010 May 1-23

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Archive - Yahoo forum posts, 2010 May 1-23

BaseballGamesBKW
Site Admin
Joined: 25 Oct 2013, 10:10

07 Nov 2017, 22:13 #1

BASEBALLGAMES FORUM 2010 May 1 - 23, Messages 6138 -  6193 

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Message #6138 Sat May 1, 2010 7:08 pm 
"chrisharrison355" <chrisharrison355(at)yahoo.com>
Re: re: Barnes raising 

O: Are you saying you actually knew Jim Barnes in real life? 

--- "O" wrote:
> John Barnes?? I once knew a John Barnes invented Statis Pro Baseball. Are you he? 
> I was a service consultant at Dun & Bradstreet located in KC and John Barnes lived 
> in Iowa. Any relation? Really be odd not to be you? 
> :) 
>
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Message #6139 Sun May 2, 2010 2:24 pm 
"murphmark1" <murphmark1(at)yahoo.com>
Re: Be A Manager Season 2 is in the books-Twins win the series!     

Hi Jim, I have been in and out of this forum peiorically, I don't know how far back 
you go but my dad and I have original sets of the 1969 "Be a Manager" set and 
a 100 best hall of famers from I think 1970. between the two of us we have 
completed upwards of over 100 of seasons over the years, we draft fantasy style 
though we dont keep the games in tact, we would be more than willing to swap 
copies of the sets, feel free to email me and we can try and set something up. 
Thanks
Mark

"jimwhitty" wrote: 
> ... Season 2 of our pub league using the game "Be a Manager" (1966 season edition)
> is in the books....
> We had six teams in the league and our > expanding to 10 teams for season 3. I know 
> I have told some of you guys that I will print cards for you and I still will. 
> I have been extremely busy at work lately but I will get to it as soon as possible. 
> ...
>
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Message #6140 Mon May 3, 2010 8:03 am 
"Jerome, David R." <David.Jerome(at)us.ngrid.com>
Re: Re: Yank tank? 

curt,
another problem was the use of the bullpen. They used Ramos to try and 
close games when there were 3 other pitchers who had better ERA'S than 
him, RENIFF, WOMACK AND HAMILTON. 
   David

--- "curt young" wrote:
> ... yes, the yankees were "poor" in that they finished 10th of 10 teams, but 
> i m trying to ascertain HOW they did it.... it is obvious that they were NOT
> a "poor team" in hitting, pitching, or fielding, but somehow were mismanaged 
> to wind up way below where they should have. 
> can luck account for that much of a drop?
>
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Message #6141 Mon May 3, 2010 3:52 pm 
"curt young" <curtyoung13(at)hotmail.com>
OT: Re: Re: Yank tank? 

dr j:
but wasn't pete ramos pretty good that year, even?  looking 4 an explanation 
of the lousy pythagorean rating, i think i suspected the bullpen long ago, but 
looked them up in bbref and found they were not really bad enough 2 make them 
the scapegoat. 
   lyle13 
now, i could argue that this is how the yankee brass were stinking up the game 
by leaning on the wrong guy as closer, but i think pete ramos was a logical guy 
2 look 2, as NY had got him the previous yr from the indians and he looked real good. 
i had 4gotten about steve hamilton.  he was 1 of me favorites back then.  i was not a 
hal reniff fan, especially the next few years when he came down 2 the syracuse 
chiefs.  if we look up steve hamilton in 1965, he looks like a logical choice 4 
1966 high-$ use, too.  the term "closer" didn't exist yet, and even years later 
rollie fingers would pitch 2 innings at a time, but we both can think about 
using hamilton and womack, even ramos, in high-leverage situations.  i think the 
1966 yankees did ok in this department, eh? 

i wish we had some columnists from NYC from those days.  did dick young not smell 
n e thing?  did other guys?  it may have just been bad luck; but so MUCH bad luck 
is rare enough 2 have kept me suspicious all these years. 

--- "Jerome, David R." wrote:
> ... another problem was the use of the bullpen. They used Ramos to try and 
> close games when there were 3 other pitchers who had better ERA'S than 
> him, RENIFF, WOMACK AND HAMILTON.
>
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Message #6142 Mon May 3, 2010 5:34 pm 
"Chris Bryant" <prince_charming98bg(at)yahoo.com>
OT: Re: Re: Yank tank? 

You're using 20-20 hindsight to look at them and you're also seeing them 
too much in terms of stats.The Yankees were NOT a poor team but they were not 
a real strong team.I think you said a few weeks back that they should have 
used Dooley Womack as the closer.That's something that's easy to say in  hindsight 
but Womack was a roookie that year and not highly regarded at the time.After his 
1966 performance he became the closer in 1967.He didn't have an impressive career, 
though.The '66 Yankees werem't real strong up the middle,either.Only Richardson might 
have been above average defensively and even he was overrrated.Richardson had an 
undeserved reputation as a great fielder but the truth is he didn't have much range. 
A healthy Mantle could have moved the Yankees up some in the standings and it's 
worth noting that before divisional play few last place teams won 70 games like the 
Yankees did.You also suggested a while back that "CBS and HOUK" did the Yanks in but 
the '66 club was wasn't much different than the '64 version except for the results 
and Houk didn't take over as field manager until Johnny Keane had managed them to a 
4 and 16 start.After Houk took over they went 66-73.Jim Bouton in his book _Ball Four_ 
said that one year the Yanks' PLAYERS pretty much threw in the towel at the end.I don't 
remember which year he was talking about but I think it's quite possible that they 
weren't trying too hard toward the end of the season.In the end,though,I'd say that 
they simply suffered from age and injuries. 

They're not the only team ever to perform worse than the numbers suggest they should. 
I mentioned the 1984 season a while back. And then there are OVERPERFORMERS:The 1969 
Mets won 100 games but the numbers suggest they should have won less than 90.I'm 
inclined to believe that some teams have a chemistry that helps them and I'm going 
to talk about that some time in the future. 
   Chris Bryant

--- "curt young" wrote:
> ... yes, the yankees were "poor" in that they finished 10th of 10 teams, but 
> i m trying to ascertain HOW they did it.... there should be some explanation of 
> HOW they managed to fall into 10th place in the standings. it is obvious that they 
> were NOT a "poor team" in hitting, pitching, or fielding, but somehow were 
> mismanaged to wind up way below where they should have. 
can luck account for that much of a drop?
>
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Message #6143 Tue May 4, 2010 4:02 am 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Baseballgames update, May 2010 

Hiya fellers! Just checking in once again with the regularly-scheduled 
state-of-the-website address.  This one will be quick, since there's not 
much of anything new to report from the main website 
[ http://baseballgames.dreamhosters.com/ ],
we're tied up running a hockey playoff pool, and after a depressing hiatus 
(consult a physician if you have one) of more than three years, your front-office 
nitwits are almost ready to throw out the first dice for a new season of our 
own home-brew ballgame. No change to the front page of the Forum, neither, 
where *Gem Play Ball! Baseball Game,* that scarce 1947 promo piece from 
Gem Leather Goods, remains ensconced.

Straight away, then, to introducing the newest members of the group -- 
let's offer the customary warm welcome to these folks who signed on in April: 
herson_j, heyteach1024, kimcardcoll56, ibir62, rolfbass, bobus1959, orionkbell, 
wolf_123, b.fitzgerald22, alds_gh9, randallfisher1964, stowellwilliam44, 
antonebrad, wilfred512001, gak4880, and onetruekirok.  We're glad to have 
all of you on board here! If you haven't yet done so, please make sure you're 
familiar with our Forum Policy 
[ http://baseballgames.dreamhosters.com/Forumpolicy.htm ]
before you post to the Forum/e-list -- then take a few minutes to browse our 
searchable Message archives, Files, Links, and Photo galleries, as well as 
the many features at our main website 
[ http://baseballgames.dreamhosters.com/ ]. 
Stick around, introduce yourselves, let us know how you found us (seriously -- 
that's useful info for us), and don't hesitate to chime in with any questions, 
comments, or news that you might have. 

Discussion in the Forum/e-list has largely veered just a shade off-topic the past 
couple of weeks, so we're going to try to post a run-down of a recent big-ticket 
auction or two and see if we can't get a bit more back on track with vintage 
and collectible games.

We'll add, once more again, our frequent but ever relevant advisory, to both 
newcomers and veteran members of the group -- please do make sure your Yahoo 
membership has you registered/subscribed with a currently active e-mail address. 
We do occasionally check for and eliminate memberships with an inert or disconnected 
e-mail address -- and for some reason, that's the status of a number of folks 
who've joined in just the last few months. If you're signed in that way, we have to 
assume you're no longer really on board, and, regrettably, your membership will 
soon be deleted. So please do keep your status active, fellers -- just click on 
that "Edit Membership" link above the Forum title if you're no longer using 
the e-mail address you registered when you joined, or if you need to update 
anything else about your membership.

We also once again encourage you, newcomers to the group especially, to take a look 
in the Photos section's "Mystery Games" folder -- maybe a fresh set of eyes will 
at long last help us polish off the remaining enigmas there.  Games 3, 4, 6, 
8, and 9 have been solved, but we're still looking for additional info on 
#s 1 and 2, and #s 5 and 7 continue to elude identification. No prize money 
for a correct answer, but the gratitude of the front office will be yours. 

Oh, we did freshen up the Links section both here in the Forum pages and at the 
main site, and we are remiss, having failed to mention that among the additions 
there is "Baseball Researcher," the utterly fascinating blog from valued member Tom 
Shieber, Senior Curator at the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.  Riveting stuff for baseball 
historians and sharp-eyed photo sleuths. Can't recommend it highly enough: 
http://baseballresearcher.blogspot.com/

Also, a shout-out of well wishes for another highly valued member of the group, 
Gene Newman, founder and guiding spirit of our sibling CadacoAllStarBaseball forum 
[ http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cad ... eballGame/ ].
A renewed spate of health problems have Gene back on the disabled list, so let's 
all send some good thoughts his way, eh? 

Finally, one more reminder here that we've updated the Calendar feature of 
the Forum, which can be accessed from the main menu on the left-hand side of 
the Forum's front page.  Upcoming shows that may feature vintage tabletop baseball 
games and other memorabilia for sale, in addition to their main focus on sports 
cards, are listed there.  If we've omitted any shows of potential interest, drop us 
a line and we'll add them to the Calendar. And if any of you fellers attend any of 
those shows, feel free to file an informal report to let everyone else know what was 
or wasn't available!  And of course, if you do indeed obtain some vintage game 
there -- or anywhere, for that matter -- let us know about what you've added to 
your collection.  We, and we expect most everyone on board, would be very pleased 
to see more posts and pics along those lines -- so c'mon, fellers, if you've 
got something old or rare to show off, tell us, and send your photos to us 
*off-list* at Butch7999(at)aol.com so we can post 'em in the "Wha'd Ya Get?" 
album of our Photos section. We'd also like to be able to post some more pics 
of "Your Tabletop Leagues" in action, too, so c'mon guys, don't be camera-shy! 

Keep up the chatter, boys!
Butch, Kerm, & Win
Baseball Games
http://baseballgames.dreamhosters.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
______________________________________________

To reply to a message or post a new message
at the Baseballgames forum/e-list, visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
on the web and click on "Post" in the lefthand
menu, or simply send your e-mail to:
baseballgames(at)yahoogroups.com
______________________________________________ 
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Message #6144 Tue May 4, 2010 8:04 am 
"Jerome, David R." <David.Jerome(at)us.ngrid.com>
OT: Re: Re: Yank tank? 

good points

--- "Chris Bryant" wrote:
> You're using 20-20 hindsight to look at them and you're also seeing them
> too much in terms of stats....
>
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Message #6145 Tue May 4, 2010 3:19 pm 
"Chris Bryant" <prince_charming98bg(at)yahoo.com>
OT: Re: Re: Yank tank? 

NO,he was not.

--- "curt young" wrote:
> ... but wasn't pete ramos pretty good that year, even? 
>
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Message #6146 Wed May 5, 2010 5:05 pm 
"Cy" <cyoakam2000(at)yahoo.com> cyoakam2000 
Amazing Website 

What a great baseball games website -- especially the Photos and Links Sections. 
Thanks very much.  A true labor of love on your part. 
....Cy Yoakam (Ann Arbor, MI) 
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Message #6147 Wed May 5, 2010 5:43 pm 
"Chris Bryant" <prince_charming98bg(at)yahoo.com>
OT: Chemistry,momentum,and clutch     

Among the more intellectual baseball fans there's a  growing belief that chemistry, 
momentum and clutch ability don't exist: that they're just illusions that seem real 
because of a small sample size.That's easy to believe if you play a replay with a board 
or computer game.I disagree,though,for reasons which I will try to explain here. 

  First,I believe that "chemistry is very real,though hard to identify or measure. 
Play a game like Strat-O-Matic and you find that replays can have different 
results than the actual season did. From 1963 to 1968 only two teams won 
the National League pennant:The Dodgers and the Cardinals.Do a replay of the 
same seasons and you'll likely have several pennant winners.Remember how 
the Giants finished second five years running? 

  One thing I've come to believe in is "team clutch" which is pretty much the 
same as chemistry in my mind.I suspect the Cards and Dodgers were clutch teams 
in that sense.To my mind they weren't the teams with the most talent,just 
the teams that DELIVERED.To take a little bit different case,look at the 
Baltimore Orioles.In the 60's they started winning but were unable to 
win a pennant through 1965.Then they added  Frank Robinson and suddenly won 
4 pennants and 2 world series,not to mention a perfect 9-0 record in the 
playoffs.Overall their postseason record in the Frank Robinson years was 21-9, 
a fact often overlooked because they lost two world series.Look at them 
before Robby arrived and there's little to suggest a coming dynasty,though 
they certainly had some talent.In 1966 Robinson's on-field performance likely 
was the story{along with the early season slump by the defending champion Twins} 
but after the less impressive 1967 and 68 seasons the Orioles were extraordinary. 
They AVERAGED 106 wins from 1969 to 1971. Now if you look at the particular players, 
I contend they don't look all that awesome. Sure they're good,but a lot of 'em are 
players who performed better when they joined the O's. 

  Now my favorite point here is to mention what happened when Robinson LEFT:suddenly 
the team dropped to 80-74.Maybe they got old;that's certainly true of some but 
it's a pretty dramatic drop.Beginning in 1973 they had some good teams but never 
as dominant as the F.Robby years. 

  There's another team I like to mention: Look at the Cards while they had Cepeda 
and Maris for full seasons in 1967 and 68. Now it's not nearly so impressive but 
I note that the Cards declined a lot after Cepeda left AND it's worth noting 
that the BRAVES won a division title the first year Cepeda joined them. 

  Well,more later but the point is this is stuff that a game can hardly deal with 
and I don't expect it to.it's one of the things that keeps real life a bit 
more interesting than boardgames,though boardgames can certainly be fun. 
   Chris Bryant
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Message #6148 Wed May 5, 2010 11:50 pm 
"ME" <boresox(at)comcast.net> antonebrad 
Re: OT: Chemistry,momentum,and clutch 

Chris,
I've been following sports for over 50 years and anyone who thinks that 
the ONLY thing that makes a winner is talent is sadly mistaken. 
So many other things come into play that I don't have time to list them 
all here.
Brad.

--- "Chris Bryant" wrote:
> Among the more intellectual baseball fans there's a growing belief that chemistry, 
> momentum and clutch ability don't exist: that they're just illusions that seem real 
> because of a small sample size.That's easy to believe if you play a replay with 
> a board or computer game.I disagree,though,for reasons which I will try to explain here.
> ...
>
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Message #6149 Thu May 6, 2010 4:02 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Amazing Website 

Hello there, Cy --
"Very intriguing... please tell us the name and URL of that website -- we'd 
love to see it!" 
No, wait...
"Sshhh! We paid you to say that on *other* message boards, not on *this* one!" 
No, wait...
"Thanks, mom!"

Ah, just funnin' with ya, Cy, mainly because all of us in the front office are too 
socially awkward to know how to accept a compliment.  Seriously, welcome to the 
group and thanks for your comments! Do you yourself collect vintage games? 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://baseballgames.dreamhosters.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "Cy" wrote:
<< What a great baseball games website --  especially the Photos and Links 
 Sections. Thanks very much.  A true labor of love on your part.
>>
______________________________________________

To reply to a message or post a new message
at the Baseballgames forum/e-list, visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
on the web and click on "Post" in the lefthand
menu, or simply send your e-mail to:
baseballgames(at)yahoogroups.com
______________________________________________ 
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6150 Thu May 6, 2010 7:43 am 
"cavalcadeofsports" 
Auction report -- Robert Edward, April 2010 

Hello gentlemen!  My front-office cohorts and I were thinking a big auction report 
might be just the thing to help get discussion here refocussed on the ostensible 
main topic of this Forum.  Then I looked in on the prices realized at the annual Robert 
Edward auction that concluded just a couple of weeks ago.  Now I'm thinking this might be 
just the thing to *kill* any further discussion of vintage and collectible games -- except 
perhaps between only the two or three oligarchs among the 1,100 members here who can 
afford to breathe this sort of rare air... 

Just to set the stage for anyone here unfamiliar with the operation, Robert Edward 
is the toniest of the handful of toney sports memorabilia auction sites, and for 
my money the classiest and most reputable, an opinion shared by many.  That, and the 
fact that they run but one auction each year, means each of their auctions opens the door 
to a dazzling treasurehouse of the creme de la creme of sports collectibles, attracts 
the most behemoth of whales as bidders, and earns obscene amounts of money for the 
consignors.  No, I am not an employee of REA. It just is what it is. 

Actually, there was a significant amount of disappointment evinced by many diamond-heeled 
collectors regarding this year's REA offerings -- a smaller than usual proportion of 
memorabilia (not just baseball and other sports, but non-sports pop-culture and 
Americana as well), and an increased emphasis on cards, cards, and more cards. 
Baseball uniforms and bats, however, were hardly underrepresented -- and indeed, 
there were eleven games among the more than 1,700 lots on the block, and a few other 
game-related items as well.  Be sure you're seated before you read the prices on those, 
all of which include the 17.5% "buyer's premium."  I'll start with the game of 
most recent vintage and work back in time from there.  Here's the REA website, in case 
you want to take a peek at any or all of them as you follow along: 
http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/default.aspx

- lot 693, *Major League Baseball Game* (Swift & Co, 1957) 
$2644.
Uncut mint example of the scarce die-cut stand-up paper player-figures, including 
the playing field and the original mailing envelope.  $300.+ more than a sample in 
identical condition (the same one?) earned at REA four years ago.  
http://snipurl.com/w15jp

- lot 595, *Official* baseball card game (Topps, 1951) 
$2115.
Thanks again to Fred Young for getting us up to speed on these when we were clueless 
about them in the early days of this forum. This is of course Topps' initial entry 
into baseball-card production, which doubles as a basic card draw game. 
Lot 595 included the complete 52-card sets of both the "red-back" and "blue-back" 
editions, plus one variation card -- 105 cards in all, all in extremely nice condition.  
http://snipurl.com/w15ku 
- lot 592, *Official* baseball card game (Topps, 1951) 
$1293. 
Lot 592 again featured complete sets of both the "red-backs" and "blue-backs" -- 
104 cards -- but across a much wider range of conditions.  
http://snipurl.com/w15qq 
- lot 594, two complete 1951 baseball card sets 
$3819. 
Prices for the two lots above seemed typical for this game / card-set, but lot 594 is 
tougher to gauge, as it bundled both a complete 52-card set of "red-backs" (and 
two extra cards), all in very nice shape, with a compete 48-card set of 1951 Bowman 
baseball cards in even nicer shape overall. 
http://snipurl.com/w15m9 

- lot 556, *The National Game* (S&S Games Co, 1936)
$1528. 
A shade expensive for a complete set of this game's 52 "WG8" cards, in marvellous 
condition but apparently raw, and without the box or any of the game's other 
accoutrements.  
http://snipurl.com/w15mm 

- lot 230, *Base Ball - The National Game* (National Base Ball Playing Card Co, 1913) 
$4700. 
As with the 1936 S&S National Game, an essentially complete set of just the "WG5" 
cards (53, missing one of the two rules cards) from this game, and without the box.  
This was a PSA-graded-and-entombed set, however, ranging from 9s down to 4s, 
averaging a 7.2 grade.  I can't bring myself to say the price was right, but for condition 
and completeness it looks fairly typical. 
http://snipurl.com/w15mu

- lot 227, *Tom Barker Base Ball Game* (National Baseball Playing Card Co Inc, 1913) 
$2938. 
Essentially the identical game as in lot 230 above but for the design on the card backs, 
and here again the "WG6" cards only, without the box, but ungraded.  Overall condition 
looked very sharp, though.  This was one of the scarce editions stamped with advertising 
for Fenway Breweries.  The price again seemed typical for this game.  Pardon my vagueness 
as to previous auction prices, but this and the three games noted above are seen in such 
a wide variety of conditions -- graded high, graded low, ungraded, complete, incomplete, 
boxed, unboxed, in mixed lots featuring other games and/or cards -- it's tricky 
to be more precise.  
http://snipurl.com/w15n3

- lot 173, 1908 to 1928 prewar cards 
$4406.+
Just substantiating my own testimony -- 131 miscellaneous cards in this lot, 
including seven cards from the "WG6" Tom Barker game and one from "WG5" 
*Base Ball - The National Game.*  
http://snipurl.com/w15na 

- lot 1240, *Major League Indoor Base Ball* (Philadelphia Game Mfg Co, 1912-13)
$2233.+ 
Relatively speaking, quite a good price for the winning bidder.  This is the 
original 1912-13-only "deluxe" edition of Philly Game Mfg's *Major League Base Ball 
Game*;  the latter flourished as a high-end game well into the 1920s.  "Indoor" averages 
over 3K in pretty sweet condition, and this was a very nice example.  The only obvious 
difference between the two editions is "Indoor's" box lid, illustrated with portraits 
of sixteen star players of the day.  There are, though, a few very subtle differences 
between the playing fields / gameboards of the two editions.  Some seeming inconsistencies 
with those details, in other recent auctions of other samples of "Indoor," caused some 
eyebrows to arch in the front office -- suspecting the slight possibility of some 
fakery involved in artificially "upgrading" one or two later plain-box *Major League
editions (average price a little over $200.) into purported "Indoor" editions.  Continuing 
research around here, however, seems to have turned up enough "transitional" examples 
between the two editions that we've lately lowered our guard a bit on the issue, while 
keeping our eyes peeled for additional evidence... 
http://snipurl.com/w15ni

- lot 133, two early-20th-century game cards 
$1058. 
The Miller Huggins card from the National League edition (WG3) of *Fan Craze* (1906), 
and the Grover Alexander card from the WG5 "Base Ball - The National Game* (1913), 
as in lot 230 above, both graded PSA8.  Always a crime, we say, to break up game sets 
and sell off individual cards. 
http://snipurl.com/w15no

- lot 117, six cards from *Base Ball Card Game* (The Allegheny Card Co, 1904)
$4994. 
The tragic story of the *only known example* of this mysterious card set (how the heck 
was the game to be played?) is laid out on the relevant REA auction page, so 
I won't recount it here.  This lot included a rare gathering of six of the game's cards, 
all SGC-graded in "excellent" to "near-mint" condition.  One of the many pipe-dreams 
in the front-office opium den is us actually finding a second example of this game at 
some rural yard-sale on our occasional antique-hunting road trips into the 
Southern Tier and northwest Pennsylvania... 
http://snipurl.com/w15nu 

- lot 1171, *Waghter's Parlor Base Ball* (Waghter / Columbus Engraving Co, 1890-91) 
$1528.+ 
A somewhat weatherbeaten example of this earliest of baseball pinball/bagatelle games, 
lacking even its shooter mechanism, but desirable nonetheless for its nifty graphics 
and extreme scarcity.  This one sold for about half/three quarters the price of the 
few others we've seen in better condition. 
http://snipurl.com/w15o1

- lot 109, *Egerton R Williams Popular Indoor Base Ball Game* (Hatch Co, 1889) 
$15275. 
Boing!!  And here's your bell-ringer among the games at auction.  The only comparable 
example we've seen actually sold for twice this price on MastroNet five years ago, but 
the REA number here, too, was a gorgeous example of the extremely scarce Williams 
card game -- all 53 cards in wonderful shape, along with the box in decent condition, 
the game's wooden markers, and the almost-unheard-of rules booklet.  Really a thing 
of wonder -- and dollars to donuts the buyer was some fat-fingered imbecile who'll 
promptly destroy this family heirloom by breaking it up and selling off the individual cards. 
http://snipurl.com/w15o8

- lot 30, *Lawson's Patent Game Base Ball with Cards* (T W Lawson & Co, 1884), 
and 25 miscellaneous 19th-century non-game baseball cards 
$3819. 
A mixed lot here, featuring a quite nice example of the flip-box edition of Lawson's 
game.  The box was a little rough, but hey, 125 years old -- and the complete set of 36 
ungilt blue-backed cards was in outstanding condition.  Bundled along with the Lawson's 
were 23 mid- to low-grade N172 Old Judge cards and a scruffy pair of N300 Mayo Cut Plug 
cards, making evaluation of the hammer price rather impossible.  
http://snipurl.com/w15of  

Even as "game guys," the one item in the auction we might have wanted even more than 
the Williams game was the 1914 souvenir pennant from Buffalo's Federal League team 
(lot 1241).  Alas, we weren't able to even leave the gate on that one, already out of 
the running at the $500. opening bid.  It sold for $21,150. 

And not so you should think that that item, let alone the Williams game, was the belle 
of the ball, or even much more than a footnote in this auction, just check out 
the prices realized by some of the cards and memorabilia on the first page alone: 

- lot 7, a mind-boggling array of 394 N172 Old Judge cards from the 1880s, $94,000. 
- lot 2, an 1889 advertising poster for the Old Judge "round album," $105,750. 
- lot 1, the only known example of the Cornelius Doyle card from that 1889 Old Judge 
series, $129,250. 
- lot 22, a complete 100-card set of T3 Turkey Red cards,  $246,750.  I honestly 
do think the Turkey Reds are beautiful, by the way, and y'know, I woulda bid on 
those myself except that the wife and I need a new screen for the back door of 
our house and that kinda broke my budget for the month. 
- and finally there was lot 3, an obligatory T206 Wagner, beat to all heck, which 
nonetheless sold for $282,000.

Lot 4, a T206 Ty Cobb, lot 6, a T210 Joe Jackson, and lot 5, an uncut sheet of R319 
Goudey cards from 1933,  all went for more than $100,000. as well. 

So!  Any of you guys win anything in the auction?

Cheers
-- Win 
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6151 Thu May 6, 2010 4:44 pm 
"Tom Stillman" <giantsfan_94121(at)yahoo.com>
Re: Auction report -- Robert Edward, April 2010 

Not only are the games pricey, nowadays you have to come up with 35 bucks or more 
just for a catalog. It sucks being poor. 
   Tom Stillman

--- "cavalcadeofsports" wrote:
> Hello gentlemen!  My front-office cohorts and I were thinking a big auction report 
> might be just the thing to help get discussion here refocussed on the ostensible 
> main topic of this Forum.  Then I looked in on the prices realized at the annual Robert 
> Edward auction that concluded just a couple of weeks ago.  Now I'm thinking this 
> might be just the thing to *kill* any further discussion of vintage and collectible games 
> -- except perhaps between only the two or three oligarchs among the 1,100 members 
> here who can afford to breathe this sort of rare air... 
> ... there were eleven games among the more than 1,700 lots on the block, and a few 
> other game-related items as well.  Be sure you're seated before you read the prices 
> on those, all of which include the 17.5% "buyer's premium"... 
> ... I woulda bid on those myself except that the wife and I need a new screen for 
> the back door of our house and that kinda broke my budget for the month.... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6152 Fri May 7, 2010 3:35 pm 
"mikestone193" <mesablanca1110(at)yahoo.com>
Re: Auction report -- Robert Edward, April 2010 

Sure can share your sentiment Tom!

While I congratulate those who picked up these superb games, I do seek solace 
in the fact that there's plenty of really cool games that can be found on ebay 
that 'are' affordable. 

--- "Tom Stillman" wrote: 
> Not only are the games pricey, nowadays you have to come up with 35 bucks 
> or more just for a catalog. 
> It sucks being poor.
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6153 Fri May 7, 2010 9:28 am 
"textraders" <rahenson1(at)hotmail.com>
Re: OT: Chemistry,momentum,and clutch 

Put me a little in the camp against clutch, etc.  Now I certainly do believe 
some people choke.  So if you have a person who chokes against one who doesn't 
then the performance of the one who doesn't is going to look better by comparison. 
But if neither has the choke gene (for lack of a better term) then I think what 
you get is the normal variation.  Sometimes the unexpected happens.  There's 
usually tremendous variance year to year in RISP leaders for example.  And you 
see lots of guys who lead the league in all batting situations again leading in 
clutch ones.

--- "ME" wrote:
> ... I've been following sports for over 50 years and anyone who thinks that 
> the ONLY thing that makes a winner is talent is sadly mistaken.  So many 
> other things come into play that I don't have time to list them all here. 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6154 Fri May 7, 2010 9:35 pm 
"Willie Drye" <dryemorr(at)mchsi.com> beaucat001 
Durham Bulls

Hi Butch:
The Durham Bulls will be playing a special game Monday night, May 10, in 
the old Durham Athletic Park. My wife and I had some of our earliest dates at 
the DAP, and god knows how many happy hours I spent there during the 1980s 
and early '90s sipping $1 draft beers and putting on weight from $3 Bull City 
burritos. This is the ballpark that was made famous in the 1989 movie 
"Bull Durham," starring Kevin Costner, Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins. The 
movie made the Bulls a national brand, and a few years later they moved into 
a new Camden Yards-style ballpark on the other side of town. The old 
1939-vintage DAP fell into disrepair. 

But the city of Durham has renovated the DAP and leased it to a company that 
trains groundskeeping crews. To celebrate the renovation, the Bulls -- who are now 
a Class AAA team in the International League -- will be playing one game in 
the DAP against the Toledo Mudhens. I'll be there, and I'll be posting a 
blog entry and photos (and hopefully some video) Tuesday. If you think "the 
fellers" would find it interesting, please consider passing this along. 
I'll send a link to my blog when I post it Tuesday. 

Thanks and keep up the good work,
Willie Drye
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6155 Sat May 8, 2010 3:59 am 
"jballgameca" <j.r.horn1(at)shaw.ca>
Re: Auction report -- Robert Edward, April 2010 

Tom,
The REA catalogs are free, aren't they? I've never had to pay for a catalog from 
any company and I've been receiving several different ones for three or four years now.

Free auction catalogs are a great bargain because some of them are certainly 
worth $35, or even more.  The good ones, like REA's, are collectible in themselves.

John 

--- "Tom Stillman" wrote:
> Not only are the games pricey, nowadays you have to come up with 35 bucks 
> or more just for a catalog.  It sucks being poor. 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6156 Sat May 8, 2010 3:01 am 
"sabrgeek2" <Sabrgeek(at)aol.com>
Re: Auction report -- Robert Edward, April 2010

I forgot to post this yesterday -- but Rob and REA makes it a point to send 
a free catalog on anyone who asks; no questions asked other than name and 
address. Yes, many auctions houses do charge for their catalogs but REA is 
not  one. Just go to their web site and sign up. 

Their catalogs are really pieces of literature so enjoy the reading 

Regards
Rich
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6157 Sat May 8, 2010 10:59 am 
"Tom Stillman" <giantsfan_94121(at)yahoo.com>
Re: re: Auction report -- Robert Edward, April 2010 

Hi John,
Honestly, I'm not sure about the REA catalogs.  It just so happens the day 
that discussion started there was an auction catalog I wanted to get and 
they were going to charge me $35. With online capabilities and the cost 
of printing I'm guessing that more and more auction companies are/will charge 
for the catalogs as they recognize the beauty in them as standalone items. 
Of interest to this group, Noel Barrett and another auction company (whose 
name escapes me but begins with an M) both charge $35 for their catalogs. 

Tom Stillman

--- "jballgameca" wrote:
> The REA catalogs are free, aren't they? I've never had to pay for a catalog from 
> any company and I've been receiving several different ones for three or four years now.
> Free auction catalogs are a great bargain because some of them are certainly 
> worth $35, or even more.  The good ones, like REA's, are collectible in themselves.
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6158 Sat May 8, 2010 2:39 pm 
"mikestone193" <mesablanca1110(at)yahoo.com>
Re: Auction report -- Robert Edward, April 2010 

John
Totally agree!  Many are works of art and I've never thrown a catalog out. 
Tho, that may be the pack rat in me talkin. Plus, they're a good reference for pics. 
   mike

--- "jballgameca" wrote:
> ... The REA catalogs are free, aren't they? I've never had to pay for a catalog from 
> any company and I've been receiving several different ones for three or four years now. 
> Free auction catalogs are a great bargain because some of them are certainly 
> worth $35, or even more.  The good ones, like REA's, are collectible in themselves. 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Message #6159 Sat May 8, 2010 3:36 pm 
"Chris Bryant" <prince_charming98bg(at)yahoo.com>
Re: Durham Bulls 

Please do;they're having a good season again this year.I was at the game last year 
when they won the AAA Championship game; spent some time that night talking to 
Branch Rickey III. 
   Chris Bryant

--- "Willie Drye" wrote:
> The Durham Bulls will be playing a special game Monday night, May 10, in 
> the old Durham Athletic Park.... This is the ballpark that was made famous 
> in the 1989 movie "Bull Durham," starring Kevin Costner, Susan Sarandon 
> and Tim Robbins. The movie made the Bulls a national brand, and a few years 
> later they moved into a new Camden Yards-style ballpark on the other side of town. 
> The old 1939-vintage DAP fell into disrepair. 
> But the city of Durham has renovated the DAP and leased it to a company that 
> trains groundskeeping crews. To celebrate the renovation, the Bulls -- who are 
> now a Class AAA team in the International League -- will be playing one game 
> in the DAP against the Toledo Mudhens. I'll be there, and I'll be posting a 
> blog entry and photos (and hopefully some video) Tuesday.... I'll send a 
> link to my blog when I post it Tuesday.
> ...
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6160 Sat May 8, 2010 10:42 pm 
"wilfredo" <wilfred512001(at)yahoo.com>
Card creating formulas 

Since i have been playing these baseball board games i have seen some magic reserved 
for the card creating formulas--Strat-o-matic always since i have played has been strictly 
jelous and vigilant for their unique card formula,still there is a place in the internet, 
www.somworld.com whereby the person claims he has come with if not an exact replica, 
a very close one--he admits he comes very close to the real formula but praises Strato 
for having the unique secret-but i have seen, e.g, statis-pro card formula, fully readable 
and you can even print it. So i have to conclude that the Strat-o-matic game co. 
has been having the highest money earning maybe due to their selling of the game, and 
probably they would claim-with good reason indeed that they are the most highest ranking 
and popular game in the market today!! But i was analizing some formulas and, e.g., 
statis pro which uses an 8x8=64, 128 (base 8 system)uses an evaluating factorized equation- 
e.g, they add the at bats + walks+ hit batters for each batter and then divide by 128 to get 
the evaluation factor for each player in creating the card-by dividing then the hits, 
doubles,triples-homers, ect. by the evaluation factor obtained and then using their formula, 
specific to locate the data in the cards-- (like if 26 hits-always a part will be in the pitcher
-almost half. But the issue i would like to GET MOST RESPONSES id whereby we could 
attribute some formulas more accurate than others-and why-like if i could establish the 
premise that formulas that are not-repeat, are not using an evaluating factor to 
calculate spaces-are these more accurate in a way ? for the final result? or it depends 
on other individual factors-like if 50/50 card formulas, if they are not as accurate as others 
-then why the companies don't publish them like statis pro ? Is it pure egotism by their part 
(although they have their right not to publish them), but strato uses many other factors 
applied to the 50/50 -other percents, ect.
But if they ALL COULD PUBLISH WE THE FANS WOULD BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE 
MORE AND ADJUST OURSELVES to our desires and wishes  OR SUGGEST TO THEM 
HOW TO MAKE THE GAMES MORE ACCURATE!! But i can fully understand their 
secrecy, looking at it from the purely money market-secrecy right-but think in bringing 
a comparison-to this games with a medicine- the medicines have about 10 or 12 years 
patent-protected rights for simply the very high, very high earnings they make- 
but on the other hand it is a privilege that hurts poor people who could benefit 
from the generic health medicine asap, like with "singulair" for asthma-it is marketed 
already in Canada generic and it could reach to help asthma sufferers elsewhere. Well, 
the thing is that i think after 10 years the baseball board game companies should 
publish their card formulas to benefit us- -the Fans, that WE made them what they are 
by buying their games IN GOOD FAITH--maybe WE SHOULD START REQUIRING 
THAT WHEN WE BUY A GAME-THE FORMULA BE INCLUDED-ALTHOUGH 
LIMITING OUR USE AS IN THE COPYRIGHT LAWS TO STRICTLY HOME USE 
AND PERSONAL SUBJECT TO SEVERE PENALTIES IF WE INFRINGE !! Well, 
i am not sure--if i could be right at all, but what do you Fans think about this ? 
Can i get some feedback about this issue ? 

wilfredo
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6161 Sun May 9, 2010 1:34 am 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Card creating formulas 

Hi Wilfredo, thanks -- sincerely -- for those provocative questions and comments. 
We'll try to respond very briefly, but even before we do that, we'll ask that 
this entire topic, and anyone else's replies to your post, continue *not* here but only 
in our "back room" Baseball sims forum -- 
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Baseballsims/

You've actually posed two main questions -- which baseball replay/sim is most "accurate," 
and why can't, or shouldn't, game companies be forced to reveal their rating formulae. 
The first question always starts arguments, and we don't mean polite ones, which is the 
main reason we specifically warn against it in our Forum Policy statement (it's also 
kinda off-topic vis-a-vis antique/collectible games).  If you guys want to go at it, though, 
feel free to have it out at Baseballsims -- we won't stop ya there, or even interrupt. 
We here in the front office offer no opinion on that particular subject, but we know many 
of the members here have strong opinions on the "accuracy" of this game versus that one. 
No fighting in this forum, however.  We have the Baseballsims forum precisely for that. 

As to the second question, there are so many reasons why they won't, can't, or shouldn't, 
we're not sure where to start.  If you search our message archives, you'll find that Keith 
Henricksen, majordomo of BigLeagueCo (makers of *Big League Manager* and Negamco 
*Major League Baseball*) has several times offered some strong opinions on player-card 
formulae being "reverse engineered," reproduced, and distributed, and understandably 
he's not too fond of the whole idea.  The question goes straight to the heart of patent 
safeguards, copyright protection, and creative control. 

Whether you've designed a boardgame, written a novel, recorded a music album, invented 
a new microchip, or what have you, you've likely invested thousands of hours, maybe even 
years, in the process.  You deserve whatever reward it earns from the sales its popularity 
or utility merit.  Somebody who sees it and just copies it does not.  It's fundamental 
common sense.  And you likewise have every right to keep secret the nature of its 
creation and its method of production. 

You may have found a grey area in equating new medicines with boardgames, but we think 
that's an outlier of an example.  Medicine carries a slightly greater moral and ethical 
weight than do boardgames.  Novels or maybe recipes would be better equivalents.  Would 
we all be better off if we could distribute someone else's novel for free rather than 
letting the author earn royalties from sales? Would we all be better off if we knew the 
ingredients in the Special Sauce and could make it ourselves at home rather than buying 
jars of it and letting the food company earn money?  Probably, but not so much so 
that the author or the food company has any moral or ethical obligation to let us have 
those things for free.  You're surely familiar with similar and even more germane debates 
regarding music, and the copying and distribution of songs and albums.  When 
you copy music for free, you're depriving the artist of the money their creativity 
should earn them. 

You also suggest that gamers "should start requiring that when we buy a game, the formula 
be included."  "Requiring"...  how?  It would first necessitate some major legislation 
affecting copyright law and patent protection, which inventors and creative artists have 
fought long and hard to have enacted.  All you have is the right to *not* buy a game 
that doesn't include card-creation formulae, and perhaps if enough SOM gamers, or fans of 
APBA or PTP or whichever game, join your boycott, you might get the company's attention. 

You do include a caveat about "limiting... strictly to home use and personal" -- which 
is a stretch anyway, we think, already pre-empted by our previous points -- but 
even so, how could game companies possibly monitor whether their card-creation formulae 
were being used by one person who'd bought their game-with-formula-included or being 
distributed freely among hundreds or thousands of gamers?  It would take an 
army of paralegals scouring the internet daily and CIA-like tracking of game buyers. 

Anyway, we've gone on at excessive length on this one, but that'll be *our* last word 
on it, and the last word on it in here. Again, if anybody wants to chime in on 
the twin subjects of replay/sim accuracy and/or boardgame copyrights, really, please 
feel free to continue the conversation at 
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Baseballsims/
Comments on it here will be moved by us to that forum, where Wilfredo's post is 
already copied as well.  Thanks fellers! 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "wilfredo" wrote:
> Since i have been playing these baseball board games i have seen some magic reserved 
> for the card creating formulas--Strat-o-matic always since i have played has been strictly 
> jelous and vigilant for their unique card formula... 
> ... the issue i would like to GET MOST RESPONSES id whereby we could attribute 
> some formulas more accurate than others- and why-like if i could establish the 
> premise that formulas that are not-repeat, are not using an evaluating factor to 
> calculate spaces-are these more accurate in a way ? for the final result? or it depends 
> on other individual factors- ... why the companies don't publish them like statis pro ? 
> Is it pure egotism by their part (although they have their right not to publish them), 
> but strato uses many other factors applied to the 50/50 -other percents, ect. But if 
> they ALL COULD PUBLISH WE THE FANS WOULD BE ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE 
> MORE AND ADJUST OURSELVES to our desires and wishes  OR SUGGEST TO 
> THEM HOW TO MAKE THE GAMES MORE ACCURATE!! But i can fully understand 
> their secrecy, looking at it from the purely money market-secrecy right-but think in 
> bringing a comparison-to this games with a medicine- the medicines have about 10 
> or 12 years patent-protected rights for simply the very high, very high earnings they make
> - but on the other hand it is a privilege that hurts poor people who could benefit 
> from the generic health medicine asap ... i think after 10 years the baseball board 
> game companies should publish their card formulas to benefit us- -the Fans, that 
> WE made them what they are by buying their games IN GOOD FAITH--maybe WE 
> SHOULD START REQUIRING THAT WHEN WE BUY A GAME-THE FORMULA 
> BE INCLUDED-ALTHOUGH LIMITING OUR USE AS IN THE COPYRIGHT LAWS 
> TO STRICTLY HOME USE AND PERSONAL SUBJECT TO SEVERE PENALTIES 
> IF WE INFRINGE !! ... 
>
______________________________________________

To reply to a message or post a new message
at the Baseballgames forum/e-list, visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
on the web and click on "Post" in the lefthand
menu, or simply send your e-mail to:
baseballgames(at)yahoogroups.com
______________________________________________ 
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6162 Sun May 9, 2010 8:39 am 
"textraders" <rahenson1(at)hotmail.com>
Sherco (was: Re: Card creating formulas) 

... The game I play is Sherco.  And they did release the formula.  Sadly the version 
I bought doesn't have it. 

I've been able to find almost all the formulas either through other websites, 
or trial and error.  The one formula I can't find yet (still hoping someone 
here knows and will share it with me) is the "clutch rating" they use late in 
games.  Everything I've tried either includes people that aren't clutch rated, 
or excludes people that are.  It puts me at a disadvantage playing my friend 
who has some teams that have the rating when none of mine do. 

--- "wilfredo" wrote:
> Since i have been playing these baseball board games i have seen some magic 
> reserved for the card creating formulas--Strat-o-matic always since i have played 
> has been strictly jelous and vigilant for their unique card formula... why the companies 
> don't publish them like statis pro ? Is it pure egotism by their part (although they have 
> their right not to publish them)... 
> ...
>

[ ed. note -- the full version of textrader's reply has been moved to 
the Baseballsims forum  http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Baseballsims/
-- B, K, & W ]
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6163 Mon May 10, 2010 11:39 am 
"markwcooper" <markwcooper(at)comcast.net> 
Re: re: Auction report -- Robert Edward, April 2010

M is Morphy

--- "Tom Stillman" wrote:
> ... Honestly, I'm not sure about the REA catalogs. It just so happens the day 
> that discussion started there was an auction catalog I wanted to get and 
> they were going to charge me $35.  With online capabilities and the cost 
> of printing I'm guessing that more and more auction companies are/will charge 
> for the catalogs as they recognize the beauty in them as standalone items. 
> Of interest to this group, Noel Barrett and another auction company (whose 
> name escapes me but begins with an M) both charge $35 for their catalogs.
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6164 Mon May 10, 2010 9:29 am 
"Chris" <flyingpickle(at)oo.com> cjwitt 
Re: Card creating formulas

[ ed. note - message moved to Baseballsims:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Baseballsims/
  -- B, K, & W ]
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6165 Tue May 11, 2010 11:36 pm 
"cavalcadeofsports" 
Auction report -- Hunt, April 2010 

Hello again, gents -- the REA auction wasn't the only one from a major sports memorabilia 
auction house in April, although it tended to overshadow all others.  And maybe because 
of that, prices for a small selection of vintage games and game-related items at 
Hunt Auctions last month were in some cases significantly lower than one might have 
expected.  This was generally a much more affordable array of games, anyway, than the 
Tiffany offerings at the Louvre that is REA -- and as such, maybe the Hunt results will 
have a little more relevance, and be a bit more interesting, to collectors here. 

Just a few items, really, and as always, newest to oldest, with the buyer's premium 
(15% at Hunt) added into the price... 

- lot 919, *Official Baseball Card Game* (Milton Bradley, 1970) 
$85.
Hunt's consignor got good money for this one -- the game with the complete set of cards 
appeared to be in sweet condition, and we've seen much higher prices for it, but much 
lower prices too, averaging just under $50.
   http://tinyurl.com/25wmzxy

- lot 920, *The Amazing Magic Pivot Swing* (manufacturer unknown, circa 1968) 
$90.
Not a game, but game-related -- a home batting-practice device, one we'd never 
seen before.  Overall condition looked a little shopworn, but no obvious flaws 
or damage.  Items in this subgenre carrying endorsements from avidly-collected players 
like Mantle and Mays always do very well at auction, but this little rarity, endorsed 
by Joe Torre and Billy Hitchcock, did pretty well too. 
   http://tinyurl.com/28gbn8c

- lot 799, *Bobby Shantz's Baseball Game* (Realistic Games Mfg Co Inc, 1954) 
$66. 
It hurt that we missed this one -- we've been looking for a nice example of the 
Shantz game for a long time.  Easy enough to find for not much more than $30., but 
always beat to heck and missing significant parts -- tough to find complete and in much 
nicer shape, like the one here.  $60.-$70. is right in the wheelhouse for a sharp sample 
-- although even that figure is a bit inflated by one that sold six years ago, at Hunt's 
in fact, for an insane $300.+. 
   http://tinyurl.com/27vtech

- lot 505, *Tru-Action Electric Baseball Game* (Tudor Metal Products Corp, circa 1950) 
and *Poosh-M-Up Jr. 4-in-1* (Northwestern Products Co, 1940s-1950s?) 
$127. 
Hunt did great for their consignor on this two-game lot.  Both the early edition of the 
Tudor game and the Northwestern wood-and-glass bagatelle were in fairly good used condition 
and presumably complete inside their somewhat dingy but solid and intact original shipping 
boxes, but both games are very, very commonly available, averaging around $25. and $35., 
respectively, boxed and in tip-top shape. 
   http://tinyurl.com/28ho9os

- lot 504, four handheld games and four punchboards 
$106.
Hard to evaluate this large mixed lot, as Hunt didn't bother to show or describe 
everything included.  Among the items you can see was the attractive and very tough 
1948 *Baseball Puzzle* dexterity game by Drueke, and one of the many variations of 
the little Japanese bagatelle game *Home Run,* this one by ST, probably early 1950s.  
At least two very attractive near-mint punchboards by Harlich Mfg, *Play Baseball and 
Smoke* ("Fitzpatrick & Draper Deluxe Cigars" on one, *Garcia Grande* on the other), 
maybe 1930s, probably 1940s, were also in the lot.  "Play baseball and smoke"...  that's 
*my* motto!  Of interest to the fanatically detail-obsessed, like us here in the front office, 
the F & D Cigars version used the same illustration of a batter as did some very early 
editions of Jim Prentice *Electric Baseball.*  Huh. Given typical prices for those or 
similar items, and that those four entailed only half the lot, I'd say the buyer probably 
got a nice bargain there. 
   http://tinyurl.com/2c2x7eb 

- lot 832, punchboard and five other items 
$70.
The circa 1930s W H Brady *Baseball 1c* punchboard was the only semi-game-related 
item in this mixed lot of pre-War oddities, which also included a celluloid ball-strike 
counter, a baseball-motif metal pin, a Cubs mini-pennant, and a novelty team photo.  
Of most interest to your front office crew, however, was a "Buffalo Brewing Co" edition 
of the bottle-opener/gas-valve-opener that was recently under discussion both at Net54 
and on eBay's Sports Cards & Memorabilia forum. 
   http://tinyurl.com/2deakxl 

- lot 430, *Fan-Ball* (Fan-Ball Co, 1936) 
$52.
Hunt can be a little lazy about their research and presentation of games, so I'll have to 
take their word on this one, as far as it goes, with a large grain of salt on the side. 
Supposedly this was the 1936 reissue of the game that first appeared in 1909 (ya can't 
hardly tell 'em apart), and it may or may not have had a full set of cards.  The price was 
about right for a complete example in better condition, but without more information I'd 
have to say it was just a shade high on this one. 
   http://tinyurl.com/2dog54g 

- lot 212, three examples of *Great National Base Ball Game
(manufacturer unknown, circa 1920s) 
$130.
Oh, did this hurt.  Miscommunication between the front office and our branch office 
downstate scuttled our own bid on this mouth-watering lot.  It was the big revelation 
among Hunt's game offerings in this auction -- a heretofore unknown game by 
a Pittsburgh manufacturer, carrying a blurb from Walter Johnson as endorsement. 
We're only guessing at this point, but we think this may be a direct precursor to 
the famous *Walter Johnson Base Ball Game* that debuted in 1930, since the "Great 
National" title relates to a rare alternate edition of the latter game's "coins."  Three 
barely-touched samples of this newly-discovered game, all together here.  Ow.  
A big E on the scoreboard for us, and a huge hit for the buyer. 
   http://tinyurl.com/2e2e7pg 

- lot 83, *Lawson's Patent Game Base Ball with Cards* (T W Lawson, 1884) 
$115. 
Lastly, a ridiculous bargain here for the winning bidder.  Yes, the box was shot to 
hell, and yes, only 25 of the game's 36 cards were included, but complete examples 
of this "lesser" (ungilt-edged blue-back cards, flip-top box) edition of this co-earliest 
of baseball card games typically earn between $600. and $1400. at auction.  Pick up 
the necessary eleven missing cards (often available as singles from broken sets), put 
a little restoration work into the box, and it's a dandy. 
   http://tinyurl.com/23za276 

Anyone here get anything there? 
Cheers 
-- Win 
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6166 Thu May 13, 2010 11:57 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Durham Bulls 

Hiya fellers -- Willie sent us the following note off-list:

"Butch, et al:
  I've posted a blog entry about last night's game at the Durham Athletic Park. 
  See:  http://wdryegoods.blogspot.com/ 
  Thanks,
  Willie"

Sorry about the delay -- his e-mail was vacuumed up by our $p@m filter and 
we only just found it.  Terrific blog, Willie, thanks for the heads up on the 
new entry there.  Highly recommended! 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "Willie Drye" wrote:
<< The Durham Bulls will be playing a special game Monday night, May 10, in
    the old Durham Athletic Park.... This is the ballpark that was made famous
    in the 1989 movie "Bull Durham," starring Kevin Costner, Susan Sarandon 
    and Tim Robbins. The movie made the Bulls a national brand, and a few years 
    later they moved into a new Camden Yards-style ballpark on the other side of 
    town. The old 1939-vintage DAP fell into disrepair. 
    But the city of Durham has renovated the DAP and leased it to a company that 
    trains groundskeeping crews. To celebrate the renovation, the Bulls -- who are 
    now a Class AAA team in the International League -- will be playing one game 
    in the DAP against the Toledo Mudhens. I'll be there, and I'll be posting a 
    blog entry and photos (and hopefully some video) Tuesday.... I'll send a 
    link to my blog when I post it Tuesday.
    ...
>>
______________________________________________

To reply to a message or post a new message
at the Baseballgames forum/e-list, visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
on the web and click on "Post" in the lefthand
menu, or simply send your e-mail to:
baseballgames(at)yahoogroups.com
______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6167 Fri May 14, 2010 6:45 pm 
"yankfans_1961" <yankfans_1961(at)yahoo.com>
Re: 1969 Milton Bradley Official Baseball Game / Challenge the Yankees 

"A side project that I have going on is creating cards for the remaining 
nine 1964 American League teams to challenge the Yankees. I've completed 
four teams so far."  

Did you ever get a chance to finish this up? Thanks. 

--- "rohanman99" wrote: 
> ... I have both of the 'big' roster editions (not the '70 small set).  I always thought 
> that they came out in consecutive seasons. I'm kind of confused by this 1972 edition. 
> The first edition had the Seattle Pilots team card.  The second large edition had 
> the Milwaukee Brewers (in the Western Division) and the Washington Senators in 
> the East team card.  If it was for 1972, I think they would had the Brewers in the 
> East and the Texas Rangers in the West....  
> The editions are also distiguished by the results on the back. The second 'edition' 
> only has six result variations.  The first edition must have been individually calculated 
> (except for hurlers, everyone seems to be different or at least more variations).  To 
> determine the edition, the simple method would be to look at a pitchers card....  
> Now on to 'Challenge the Yankees'... A side project that I have going on is 
> creating cards for the remaining nine 1964 American League teams to challenge 
> the Yankees.  I've completed four teams so far.... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6168 Sun May 16, 2010 2:09 pm 
"Eric Lutzker" <ericlutzker(at)comcast.net>
desperate to replay 1970 season... 

hi guys- in a perfect world i would just purchase the 1970 season from dynasty league
but money's pretty tight right now. i have multiple strat seasons to trade if anyone 
has 1970 of almost any (reasonably accurate) sim. none of the strat seasons i have 
are terribly rare but i would be willing to even go 2 for one maybe (say 96 and 97
w/extra players) i also have statis pro, asg, longball, replay and much more. 
i could provide a complete list directly if you are interested. or i could buy at a 
used price. i'm also interested in 1969 (i'm an o's fan, i admit it.) hoping someone 
has a 1970 season lying around that they aren't interested in playing. 
thanks in advance,
  eric
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6169 Sun May 16, 2010 3:41 pm 
"ME" <boresox(at)comcast.net> antonebrad 
Re: desperate to replay 1970 season...

Do you have the SOM computer game? Your not giving up SOM for DL are you? 
  Brad.

--- "Eric Lutzker" wrote:
> hi guys- in a perfect world i would just purchase the 1970 season from dynasty league
> but money's pretty tight right now. i have multiple strat seasons to trade if anyone 
> has 1970 of almost any (reasonably accurate) sim. none of the strat seasons i have 
> are terribly rare but i would be willing to even go 2 for one maybe (say 96 and 97 
> w/extra players) i also have statis pro, asg, longball, replay and much more. 
> i could provide a complete list directly if you are interested. or i could buy at a 
> used price. i'm also interested in 1969 (i'm an o's fan, i admit it.) hoping someone 
> has a 1970 season lying around that they > aren't interested in playing. 
> thanks in advance... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6170 Sun May 16, 2010 4:54 pm 
"mainembc" <ma.bercol(at)gmail.com>
Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Hello,
I don't know much about baseball, but I am going through a game that 
my husband probably played in 1972. 

The cards are from that year, and it is in a green box with Midwest Research Inc 
on the top and side. It has envelopes with the teams, etc. It also has a considerable 
amount of Statis-Pro cards from 1950, and various bits of paper and instructions. 

What I would like to know is what exactly the box should have in it to make it complete. 
Very grateful for any help.
Mary
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6171 Mon May 17, 2010 4:10 pm 
"Tim and Pat Fairman" <tp.fair(at)comcast.net> tpfair11
Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972

I do not know much about this was looking for his replay 1975 season 
and how much he was asking. 

--- "mainembc" wrote:
> ... I don't know much about baseball, but I am going through a game that 
> my husband probably played in 1972. 
> The cards are from that year, and it is in a green box with Midwest Research Inc 
> on the top and side. It has envelopes with the teams, etc. It also has a considerable 
> amount of Statis-Pro cards from 1950, and various bits of paper and instructions. 
> What I would like to know is what exactly the box should have in it to make it complete. 
> Very grateful for any help.
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6172 Mon May 17, 2010 4:37 pm 
"orionkbell" <noiro(at)cox.net>
Re: re: Midwest Research Inc 1972

I believe I am correct in stating that Midwest Research Inc was the company 
that Jim Barnes used to created his game "Statis Pro". 
  O

--- "mainembc" wrote: 
> ... I don't know much about baseball, but I am going through a game that 
> my husband probably played in 1972. 
> The cards are from that year, and it is in a green box with Midwest Research Inc 
> on the top and side. It has envelopes with the teams, etc. It also has a considerable 
> amount of Statis-Pro cards from 1950, and various bits of paper and instructions. 
> What I would like to know is what exactly the box should have in it to make it complete. 
> Very grateful for any help.
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6173 Mon May 17, 2010 6:36 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972

Hiya Mary, welcome to the group and thanks for your question!  *Major League Baseball 
Game* by Midwest Research Inc is indeed, as "O" just mentioned, the precursor to the 
*Statis Pro* series of games made by Avalon Hill and Sports Illustrated.  Unfortunately, 
we here in the front office aren't expert on any version of the game -- but fortunately, 
several guys on board are quite steeped in it, and someone should be along soon 
to let us all know exactly what should be included in a complete example of the game. 

In the meantime, our interview with *Statis Pro* designer Jim Barnes is available in 
the Files section here, and that will give you some history and background on the game. 
We do know that 1971, '72, and '73 were transitional years in the way the game was 
produced, changing from dice to spinners to "fast-action cards," so not knowing *exactly* 
which edition you have makes any answer a bit problematic.  We can also tell you, 
though, that the game was first produced in 1971, so the 1950 cards weren't actually 
made in 1950 but are, rather, a "retro" season set made sometime in the 1970s or '80s.

We hope that's of some help to get you started!  Be patient -- there are a lot of 
knowledgeable, helpful fellers on board here who have the information you need.

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "mainembc" wrote:
> ... I don't know much about baseball, but I am going through a game that 
> my husband probably played in 1972. 
> The cards are from that year, and it is in a green box with Midwest Research Inc 
> on the top and side. It has envelopes with the teams, etc. It also has a considerable 
> amount of Statis-Pro cards from 1950, and various bits of paper and instructions. 
> What I would like to know is what exactly the box should have in it to make it complete. 
> Very grateful for any help.
>
______________________________________________

To reply to a message or post a new message
at the Baseballgames forum/e-list, visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/
on the web and click on "Post" in the lefthand
menu, or simply send your e-mail to:
baseballgames(at)yahoogroups.com
______________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6174 Mon May 17, 2010 6:40 pm 
"Bruce Hessel" <huskerbruce2002(at)yahoo.com>
Re: re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

The Box should have 24 team envelopes with players, a spinner, some play charts 
and instructions.

--- "mainembc" wrote:
> ... I don't know much about baseball, but I am going through a game that 
> my husband probably played in 1972. 
> The cards are from that year, and it is in a green box with Midwest Research Inc 
> on the top and side. It has envelopes with the teams, etc. It also has a considerable 
> amount of Statis-Pro cards from 1950, and various bits of paper and instructions. 
> What I would like to know is what exactly the box should have in it to make it complete. 
> Very grateful for any help.
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6175 Mon May 17, 2010 7:29 pm 
"rebelvirginians" <JRob52162(at)aol.com> 
Re: re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Greetings!  I asked a question about Midwest Research a few years ago regarding 
a version that I have called "All-Time Baseball All-Stars".  This had 6 great teams 
from the past: 1927 New York Yankees, 1934 St. Louis Cardinals, 1954 Cleveland 
Indians, 1955 Brooklyn Dodgers, 1957 Milwaukee Braves, and 1970 Baltimore Orioles.  
I still have this game minus the 1927 New York Yankee player cards.  I also have some 
advertising about the 1971 version of the Statis-Pro game which I have not seen.  
The home address on the box was from Waterloo, Iowa, which is where I grew up. 
 James P. Roberts

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> ... *Major League Baseball Game* by Midwest Research Inc is indeed, as "O" 
> just mentioned, the precursor to the *Statis Pro* series of games made by Avalon 
> Hill and Sports Illustrated.... we here in the front office aren't expert on any version 
> of the game -- but fortunately, several guys on board are quite steeped in it, and 
> someone should be along soon to let us all know exactly what should be included 
> in a complete example of the game. In the meantime, our interview with *Statis Pro
> designer Jim Barnes is available in the Files section here, and that will give you 
> some history and background on the game. We do know that 1971, '72, and '73 
> were transitional years in the way the game was produced, changing from dice to 
> spinners to "fast-action cards," so not knowing *exactly* which edition you have 
> makes any answer a bit problematic. We can also tell you, though, that the game 
> was first produced in 1971, so the 1950 cards weren't actually made in 1950 but 
> are, rather, a "retro" season set made sometime in the 1970s or '80s.... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6176 Tue May 18, 2010 2:31 pm 
"mainembc" <ma.bercol(at)gmail.com>
Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972

Thanks for your help! Could you possibly tell me what the spinner looks like. 
The box has all the other things, but I do not see a spinner? 

--- "Bruce Hessel" wrote:
> The Box should have 24 team envelopes with players, a spinner, 
> some play charts and instructions. 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6177 Tue May 18, 2010 3:43 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972

Hi again, Mary -- better than tell you, we'll show you!  If you're actually at the Forum, 
click on "Photos" in the main menu at the left side of the front page. On the page that 
opens, click on the "Viewer Mail" folder.  The spinner from MRI's *All-Time Greats 
Baseball Game,* which is identical to the one in their *Major League Baseball Game,* 
is the last of the twenty photos there. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "mainembc" wrote:
<< Thanks for your help! Could you possibly tell me what the spinner looks like. 
 The box has all the other things, but I do not see a spinner? 
>> 
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6178 Tue May 18, 2010 4:22 pm 
"mainembc" <ma.bercol(at)gmail.com>
Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Thanks very much! Haven't found that yet, but will keep looking. 

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Hi again, Mary -- better than tell you, we'll show you!  If you're actually at the Forum, 
> click on "Photos" in the main menu at the left side of the front page. On the page that 
> opens, click on the "Viewer Mail" folder.  The spinner from MRI's *All-Time Greats 
> Baseball Game,* which is identical to the one in their *Major League Baseball Game,* 
> is the last of the twenty photos there. 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6179 Tue May 18, 2010 5:40 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972

Howdy James, we hope you weren't feeling ignored!  *All-Time Greats Baseball Game
is a rare specimen and an enviable thing in any collection.  Sorry we can't help you 
with the '27 Bombers cards from that game. 

The "regular-season" version of the early Statis Pro games -- *Major League Baseball 
Game* -- is occasionally available on eBay, though, so you could get a look at it there 
when it shows up.  Dark green box, black block-print lettering, weird "time-lapse" 
line-drawing of a batter swinging.  It was indeed produced in Waterloo, where designer 
Jim Barnes was otherwise employed.  Our July 2006 interview with him is available 
in our Files section. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "JRob52162" wrote: 
<< Greetings!  I asked a question about Midwest Research a few years ago regarding 
    a version that I have called "All-Time Baseball All-Stars".  This had 6 great teams 
    from the past: 1927 New York Yankees, 1934 St. Louis Cardinals, 1954 Cleveland 
    Indians, 1955 Brooklyn Dodgers, 1957 Milwaukee Braves, and 1970 Baltimore 
    Orioles.  I still have this game minus the 1927 New York Yankee player cards. 
    I also have some advertising about the 1971 version of the Statis-Pro game 
    which I have not seen.  The home address on the box was from Waterloo, Iowa, 
    which is where I grew up. 
>>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6180 Tue May 18, 2010 6:41 pm 
"strimples" <strimples(at)verizon.net>
Re: Midwest Research baseball 

Hello,
The "All Time greats" game was actually on Ebay a month or so ago! 

Also It is possible that the spinner may have been replaced by "fast Action" cards 
when they were introduced. Maybe the spinner was thrown away. Are there 
"Fast Action" cards in the box? 

I have a 72 game that has FAC and no spinner, with directions for 2d6 dice and spinner. 
   Steve
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6181 Wed May 19, 2010 1:53 pm 
"mainembc" <ma.bercol(at)gmail.com>
Re: re: Midwest Research baseball 

Hi there! 
It does have the Fast Action Cards, with little yellowed out marks on them. I guess 
they came like that. The cards are 1972, in fact! But, in the literature that came with 
the box, they do talk about a Spinner. It looks to be such a lovely thing, that spinner! 
But, my husband says he has no memory of it. In fact, I think that I know more about 
the boxes/cards now than he does! However, I don't know much about the game. 
Being English might have something to do with that!! 
Mary

--- "strimples" wrote:
> ... The "All Time greats" game was actually on Ebay a month or so ago! 
> Also It is possible that the spinner may have been replaced by "fast Action" cards 
> when they were introduced. Maybe the spinner was thrown away. Are there 
> "Fast Action" cards in the box? I have a 72 game that has FAC and no spinner, 
> with directions for 2d6 dice and spinner. 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6182 Wed May 19, 2010 11:34 am 
"rebelvirginians" <JRob52162(at)aol.com>
Re: re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Hello Butch, No, I don't feel ignored. I've been keeping loose track of the discussion board 
and saw the "Midwest Research" subject header which piqued my interest.  I only occasionally 
check on E-Bay for the "All-Time Greats Baseball" game and missed out on the latest offer! 
Wonder how much it went for?  My edition of the game is very much worn and in need of 
replacing spinner and some cards. I have played six 96-game seasons on it in the past 
eight years.  So far, it's the 1957 Braves with 3 championships, the 1955 Brooklyn Dodgers 
two, and the 1970 Baltimore Orioles with one. I wrote a fantasy story based on the game 
called "The Table-Top Season" and it is in my collection of science fiction/fantasy/weird tales 
"Darkling I Listen, And For Many A Time... and Other Imaginations" which is available on 
amazon.com and elsewhere.  Still very enjoyable. 

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Howdy James, we hope you weren't feeling ignored! *All-Time Greats Baseball Game* 
> is a rare specimen and an enviable thing in any collection. Sorry we can't help you 
> with the '27 Bombers cards from that game. The "regular-season" version of the early 
> Statis Pro games -- *Major League Baseball Game* -- is occasionally available on eBay, 
> though... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6183 Wed May 19, 2010 7:49 pm 
"dougthemod2004" <doug.strohm(at)ballparkclassics.com>
Ballpark Classics 

Hi everyone. Long time member and first time poster. Butch was kind enough 
two years ago to allow me to post in your group, but we have been so busy 
developing, patenting, and bringing the Ballpark Classics game to market, that 
it's been just fun to follow along and listen as a fan. So, if you guys are interested 
in a taking a look, we are launching the product and shopping cart on June 1st. 
This is my childhood invention, read about it here 
[ http://www.ballparkclassics.com/our-story ].
Thanks, 
Doug 
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6184 Thu May 20, 2010 3:36 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Re: Midwest Research baseball 

Hi Steve, thanks for the input!  Do you have a link for that eBay auction?  We 
whiffed on that one when it was live and can't locate it in a "completed auctions" 
search.

Very interesting note about your '72 edition -- this is *All-Time Greats,* right? not the 
*Major League Baseball Game* version?  The only example of "ATG" we'd seen was 
definitely spinner-equipped with no FAC's.  Perhaps "ATG" was produced both in 
spinner and FAC versions. It's frustrating that the early days of a game as relatively 
recent as, and with the enduring popularity of, Statis Pro seem to be a source of 
so much confusion.  Jim Barnes' own recollections of "which edition debuted when" 
were a little vague, and we've seen conflicting information on what was included 
in "ATG" and the first few editions of *Major League.* 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "strimples" wrote:
<< ... The "All Time greats" game was actually on Ebay a month or so ago! 
    Also It is possible that the spinner may have been replaced by "fast Action" cards 
    when they were introduced. Maybe the spinner was thrown away.... I have a 72 game 
    that has FAC and no spinner, with directions for 2d6 dice and spinner. 
>>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6185 Thu May 20, 2010 3:21 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Hey James, s'all cool then!  Yeah, we're curious too about Steve's mention of an 
*All-Time Greats* selling last month on eBay -- we sure missed it the first time 
around, and a "completed items" search (using about two dozen combinations of 
search terms) turned up nothing.  Maybe Steve or someone can provide us a link 
to the auction.

We're intrigued by your stories, as well, but -- so little time available to read! Argg.  
Sounds like Richard Matheson meets Harlan Ellison, which is right up our alley. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "JRob52162" wrote:
<< Hello Butch, No, I don't feel ignored. I've been keeping loose track of the 
    discussion board and saw the "Midwest Research" subject header which piqued 
    my interest.  I only occasionally check on E-Bay for the "All-Time Greats Baseball
    game and missed out on the latest offer! Wonder how much it went for?  My edition 
    of the game is very much worn and in need of replacing spinner and some cards. 
    I have played six 96-game seasons on it in the past eight years.  So far, it's the 
    1957 Braves with 3 championships, the 1955 Brooklyn Dodgers two, and the 1970 
    Baltimore Orioles with one. I wrote a fantasy story based on the game called 
    "The Table-Top Season" and it is in my collection of science fiction/fantasy/
    weird tales "Darkling I Listen, And For Many A Time... and Other Imaginations" 
    which is available on amazon.com and elsewhere.  Still very enjoyable. 
>>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6186 Thu May 20, 2010 3:58 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Re: Midwest Research baseball 

Hey there Mary, thanks for the additional information!  We think Steve may be 
on to something with his supposition that the spinner in your sample of the game 
was replaced by the FAC's -- although, as we just mentioned in our reply to him, 
maybe *All-Time Greats* was produced in two different versions, one with the spinner 
and no FAC's, the other vice versa, the instructions and other literature remaining 
unchanged.  Or not!  What do we know, here in the front office.  The pertinent question 
at this point might be whether your husband got the game brand-new back in '72 or 
whether he got it second-hand some time thereafter. 

England, you say!  Meaning "originally from" and now here in the States, or meaning 
still in Merry Olde?  We just recently ran across some very interesting material on 
the history of semi-pro ball in the UK. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "mainembc" wrote:
<< ... It does have the Fast Action Cards, with little yellowed out marks on them. 
    I guess they came like that. The cards are 1972, in fact! But, in the literature 
    that came with the box, they do talk about a Spinner. It looks to be such a lovely 
    thing, that spinner! But, my husband says he has no memory of it. In fact, I think 
    that I know more about the boxes/cards now than he does! However, I don't know 
    much about the game. Being English might have something to do with that!! 
>>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6187 Thu May 20, 2010 4:30 pm 
"rebelvirginians" <JRob52162(at)aol.com> 
Re: Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972  

Dear Butch,
My version of the "All-Time Greats" does have the spinner, although it is well-used 
(which also can be said the same for my brain). 
  James P. Roberts

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> ... we're curious too about Steve's mention of an *All-Time Greats* selling last month 
> on eBay -- we sure missed it the first time around, and a "completed items" search 
> (using about two dozen combinations of search terms) turned up nothing. Maybe 
> Steve or someone can provide us a link to the auction.... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6188 Thu May 20, 2010 8:08 pm 
"strimples" <strimples(at)verizon.net>
Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Hi All,
I too did a completed items search and came up empty. Maybe it was more like 
2 months or so. I am always looking to complete my seasons of Statis Pro/
Midwest research. When I saw that I was dissapointed it was a great teams set. 
Those great team type games do not interest me, I like single season sets. 
I am looking for 73 and 75 sesason. '75 was on there like 2 yrs ago and went 
higher than I wanted. I do have the 1977 season card set that i baught on ebay. 
I have not seen that set since. 

I still come back to Statis Pro even after playing other games. 
Steve 

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> ... we're curious too about Steve's mention of an *All-Time Greats* selling last month 
> on eBay -- we sure missed it the first time around, and a "completed items" search 
> (using about two dozen combinations of search terms) turned up nothing.  Maybe 
> Steve or someone can provide us a link to the auction.... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6189 Fri May 21, 2010 10:29 am 
"yankfans_1961" <yankfans_1961(at)yahoo.com> yankfans_1961 
Re: re: Midwest Research Inc 1972

Butch,
eBay Item number: 320499569957
   Dave

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> ... we're curious too about Steve's mention of an *All-Time Greats* selling last month 
> on eBay -- we sure missed it the first time around, and a "completed items" search 
> (using about two dozen combinations of search terms) turned up nothing.  Maybe 
> Steve or someone can provide us a link to the auction.... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6190 Fri May 21, 2010 3:20 pm 
"mainembc" <ma.bercol(at)gmail.com>
Re: Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Bit lost in the replies...

Hi All,
  I am sure that my hubby bought the game when it came out new. He has many games 
of baseball - and I have the fun of going through them. He has SPI and Pennant Race 
and Strat, of course. And a couple of things that I have already put up on Ebay. 

I am English of the real thing, but live with my husband in Maine, as of the last ten years. 

I am not much for sport, but I absolutely love research. 

I will be getting into the Midwest Research box again this weekend, to see if all the cards 
are there, now that I have sorted them into the envelopes with their printed green names 
on them for the teams. I have a spare room, absolutely full of baseball games and cards. 
It was all a mystery to me at first, but now I can recite the name of the teams like a pro. 

My husband plays computer baseball these days; I forget the name of the game, I am 
ashamed to say. 
  M

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Hiya Mary, welcome to the group and thanks for your question!  *Major League Baseball 
> Game* by Midwest Research Inc is indeed, as "O" just mentioned, the precursor to the 
> *Statis Pro* series of games made by Avalon Hill and Sports Illustrated.... someone 
> should be along soon to let us all know exactly what should be included in a complete 
> example of the game.... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6191 Fri May 21, 2010 5:07 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Wow, nice sleuthing, Dave!  Thanks! How'd you dig that up?  In any event, 
a little further clicking suggests those All-Time Greats are now doing a tour of 
Japan under the aegis of a fan of obscure foreign-issued heavy-metal vinyl... 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "yankfans_1961" wrote:
> ... eBay Item number: 320499569957
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6192 Fri May 21, 2010 9:18 pm 
"yankfans_1961" <yankfans_1961(at)yahoo.com> yankfans_1961
Re: Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

Butch,
Did a Google search on "midwest research" "all time greats", found the result for 
the winning bidder's eBay feedback profile, clicked on the associated cached link to 
get to the feedback profile, searched for the feedback associated with this item, 
and then clicked on "view item" to get to the listing. 

So how did you come up with your additional info? 
Dave

--- "butch7999" wrote:
> Wow, nice sleuthing, Dave!  Thanks!  How'd you dig that up?  In any event, 
> a little further clicking suggests those All-Time Greats are now doing a tour of 
> Japan under the aegis of a fan of obscure foreign-issued heavy-metal vinyl... 
>
________________________________________________________________________________________________ 

Message #6193 Sun May 23, 2010 2:25 pm 
"butch7999" <Butch7999(at)aol.com>
Re: Re: Midwest Research Inc 1972 

D'OH!  A search engine!  What a concept!  After the closed auction failed to show up 
with several "advanced searches" on eBay itself, an outside search never occurred 
to us.  We're more dense than neutronium. 

Once you found the auction for us, finding the buyer was easy -- just click on the 
vendor's feedback and look for the item, click on the winning bidder's feedback 
number, and see what else he'd bought. 

B, K, & W
Baseball Games
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/baseballgames/

--- "yankfans_1961" wrote:
<< ... Did a Google search on "midwest research" "all time greats", found the result for 
    the winning bidder's eBay feedback profile, clicked on the associated cached link to 
    get to the feedback profile, searched for the feedback associated with this item, 
    and then clicked on "view item" to get to the listing. 
    So how did you come up with your additional info? 
>>
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