Our exact opposite

Our exact opposite

Laura
Laura

March 17th, 2007, 8:16 am #1

I came across this website through a link to a posted Yahoo! group of the same nature. It seems to me as if they are all run by the same person. I respect the right of a person to choose not to participate in nudism/naturism. However, to me it seems like this person is "preaching" about something that may be "right" for him, and making it a much more confusing subject for others that it may not be "right" for. God created us in our naked state. Why would he give us a body that is so sinful just to expose or look at? It doesn't make sense...not at all. We are made in the image of God, period. End of story.

Check out the link: http://www.modestyrocks.com/
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 17th, 2007, 11:06 am #2

Wow, it is confusing! I would have to write a whole paper on the subject to get around the confusion!

Check out his FAQ page! http://www.modestyrocks.com/faq.html

He hit on the subject of legalism and noted that it depends on your attitude, and that we should not just obey a law. But at the same time, carefully outlines the clothing of the early Isrealites to the letter as if they are the standards we Christians should live by.

And I wish that people who go to great legnths to write long and laborious articles would get the difference between "to" and "too" (also). "I am going to" means I am heading towards a destination" but the writer stopped just before mentioning that destination.

"I am going too" means I am going also.

And when was the last time anyone saw people wearing their undies swimming? I haven't in many years, and its usually just little kids under 6 years old.

And yes, clothing does weigh you down. He said that in one of the questions. Clothing floats until its soaked and then it drops to the bottom! And it will dry...eventually...and you are wet and stay wet until then. In the mean time, the less clothed person has long since dried off!

His reasoning is way off.

But you can argue with that person until your clothes dry off and you still won't convince them.

In one of his answers, he wrote: "The Earth was created for those who love God. Please do not allow the devil to take away from the beauty of God's creation." Is man, naked and unashamed, a beauty of Gods creation? Is he not the pinical of Gods creation? Did God come and became human and took on this earthly flesh yet he did not sin? Was Jesus clothing what kept him from sinning? Was and is God "immodest" and cannot be seen? God cannot tempt us. Yet God became man just like we are.

My personal belief is that God did create earth and all that is in it for HIS pleasure and that he loved us. Satan tried to destroy that and pervert all of the earth, especially humanity. Yet Jesus came and redeamed (bought with a price) and now owns the earth and all of humanity.

What we need to do is let the world know they belong to God through Christ, so start living like it, not like we are still in our sins! Isreal lived as if they are still in their sins, because they were. But their physical "dance" you might say, was to point to Christ. But once Christ came, that dance is over. Their dance dress, their steps, life, everything they did, was to point to a future coming messiah. Once he came, it was no longer necessary to do that dance anymore. It's too late, the Messiahs box has been opened!

No need to go back and play that game anymore. It never gave them righteousness other than what God gave them in faith. Christ is our modesty now. Even this writer mentioned that while contradicting himself here: http://www.modestyrocks.com/cfm.html where he writes, "Only by the death of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, do we obtain the righteousness of God that we seek to reflect outwardly."

But he forgot that Jesus is risen again and in the same human body that we try in vain to cover up.

Besides, everytime he mentions the verse about women dressing modestly, does he and others think that women were dressing with less clothing and need to be covered more? They were covered up. None of those women were naked or in their "undies" as he puts it! Every one of those women were dressed in some of the finest and highest quality clothing! They were showing off their wealth instead of dressing less with simple, or saying it this way, modest clothing.

Why in the name of common sense do these people always associate this verse with nudity or near nudity? These women weren't dressed that way!

I can go on all day with this web page!
"Out! Out Demons of Stupity!"
Boyd Allen
"May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 17th, 2007, 11:08 am #3

...he is selling tee shirts with "Modesty Rocks" on it! And they are "less" clothing like underwear!

Boyd
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RalphVa
RalphVa

March 17th, 2007, 11:23 am #4

He doesn't offer any shorts. Guess everyone is supposed to go around in just the t-shirts. They're white, too: probably see-through when wet.

Ralph
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RalphVa
RalphVa

March 17th, 2007, 11:30 am #5

I came across this website through a link to a posted Yahoo! group of the same nature. It seems to me as if they are all run by the same person. I respect the right of a person to choose not to participate in nudism/naturism. However, to me it seems like this person is "preaching" about something that may be "right" for him, and making it a much more confusing subject for others that it may not be "right" for. God created us in our naked state. Why would he give us a body that is so sinful just to expose or look at? It doesn't make sense...not at all. We are made in the image of God, period. End of story.

Check out the link: http://www.modestyrocks.com/
Lots of "Christians" will love this site. It cites all the verses that "seem" to represent his repressive view but leaves out the fact that a couple of people got cursed for complaining about someone being naked. Lots of others with opposing viewpoint left out, too.

Also, I think the KJV in that quote on Revelation is stilted to where we can't understand it. Think other versions will read to say to keep your clothing nearby (while working naked in the fields on on their boats) to be able to retrieve it for the meeting when we're called. Could also be language for our spiritual condition. Never can tell about Revelation just what it means.

Ralph
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Ramblinman
Ramblinman

March 17th, 2007, 12:30 pm #6

I came across this website through a link to a posted Yahoo! group of the same nature. It seems to me as if they are all run by the same person. I respect the right of a person to choose not to participate in nudism/naturism. However, to me it seems like this person is "preaching" about something that may be "right" for him, and making it a much more confusing subject for others that it may not be "right" for. God created us in our naked state. Why would he give us a body that is so sinful just to expose or look at? It doesn't make sense...not at all. We are made in the image of God, period. End of story.

Check out the link: http://www.modestyrocks.com/
Laura,

Thanks for your perceptive comments. Of course the body God gave us is not inherently lewd!

This fellow took a few isolated scripture verses out of context to twist them into a general condemnation of nudity.
What causes people to be so inclined to leap to these conclusions? These attitudes were not formed in a vacuum.

American Christian culture has a legacy of prudishness that goes all the way back to subtle Gnostic influence upon the medieval church. This took the form of a distrust of the physical world, including the physical body we inhabit.
Of course the frequent nudity found in Renaissance religious art is strong evidence of a renewed affirmation of the goodness of the nude human body.

Regrettably the English Puritans and the Anabaptists of the Continent adopted prudishness and asceticism from a faction of Roman Catholicism.

And at the risk of repeating the American history we all learned as children, I think we all have heard that these zealous, but very imperfect people brought these doctrines to America. I am not a Puritan basher. I cherish some aspects of their legacy, but I refuse to rubber-stamp my approval on all they brought to the New World.
Perhaps through ignorance or isolation, many Christians in America think that body prudishness is the norm, rather than an American abberation.

It is not hard to understand that this Mr. "Modesty Rocks" would latch onto every isolated Bible verse that superficially helps him state his case and believe that he has all of the Bible and church history behind him.

I would be surprised he would listen to reason and church history, he's so busy promoting his agenda of shame.

"Modesty Rocks" could also be reacting to the very real problem of provocative clothing and sexual immorality.
There are two approaches to temptation over nudity (or many other things):
1. Avoid it (sometimes a reasonable approach)
2. Face it head on and retrain your mind to accept nudity as not inherently sexual, but as the normal human condtion.

There remains the concern that our own nudity (especially if we are female) would imflame impure desire among those who are not accustomed to nudity. I am not quite sure the best way that society at large can make the transformation to a more platonic view of nudity, but social nudity seems to have achieved some measure of success with this.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 17th, 2007, 1:33 pm #7

Lots of "Christians" will love this site. It cites all the verses that "seem" to represent his repressive view but leaves out the fact that a couple of people got cursed for complaining about someone being naked. Lots of others with opposing viewpoint left out, too.

Also, I think the KJV in that quote on Revelation is stilted to where we can't understand it. Think other versions will read to say to keep your clothing nearby (while working naked in the fields on on their boats) to be able to retrieve it for the meeting when we're called. Could also be language for our spiritual condition. Never can tell about Revelation just what it means.

Ralph
The first verse explains it, but we put a twist based on what we understand.

First and most popular view: "The revelation of Jesus Christ."

Some mistakenly put the Book title as the Revelation of St. John.

We then add to it by reading everything as a revelation of our future, of heavenly things, of everything but what the first verse says. WE read "The revelation as given by Jesus to St. John".

The Second and my favorite view: "The revelation of Jesus Christ".

This tells me it's the Revelation OF JESUS! The Revealing of Jesus, who he is, what he is and how the Church relates to HIM. It's all about JESUS as the whole bible is about Jesus. The entire old testament points to Jesus. It is not about how we dress or eat. Its about how God lives a life of eternal and reciprocal love and how HE invited us to share in that eternal and reciprocal love.

The New Testament is God acting out that love by not asking us to come to him, but he FIRST came to us and became flesh. After the death and resurrection, he took that fleshly body, made it spirit (yet according to the Revelation of JESUS to the disciples..."see, I am flesh and bone") and is still flesh, took that FLESH to heaven! Man (Jesus) is now in heaven, fully man yet fully God.

That is where flesh meets spirit and lives.

That is the revelation OF JESUS. The book of Revelation is an apocolypes both telling the Church who she is and who Jesus is. Sure, it has a lot of revealing of what can happen, and many times over throughout history, these events have already happened, over and over again to humanity and to the Church. And these things will happen again and again. It's a history of the church and how God handles it.

We must put our faith in God and know that he has already won!

Boyd Allen
"May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."

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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 17th, 2007, 1:40 pm #8

Laura,

Thanks for your perceptive comments. Of course the body God gave us is not inherently lewd!

This fellow took a few isolated scripture verses out of context to twist them into a general condemnation of nudity.
What causes people to be so inclined to leap to these conclusions? These attitudes were not formed in a vacuum.

American Christian culture has a legacy of prudishness that goes all the way back to subtle Gnostic influence upon the medieval church. This took the form of a distrust of the physical world, including the physical body we inhabit.
Of course the frequent nudity found in Renaissance religious art is strong evidence of a renewed affirmation of the goodness of the nude human body.

Regrettably the English Puritans and the Anabaptists of the Continent adopted prudishness and asceticism from a faction of Roman Catholicism.

And at the risk of repeating the American history we all learned as children, I think we all have heard that these zealous, but very imperfect people brought these doctrines to America. I am not a Puritan basher. I cherish some aspects of their legacy, but I refuse to rubber-stamp my approval on all they brought to the New World.
Perhaps through ignorance or isolation, many Christians in America think that body prudishness is the norm, rather than an American abberation.

It is not hard to understand that this Mr. "Modesty Rocks" would latch onto every isolated Bible verse that superficially helps him state his case and believe that he has all of the Bible and church history behind him.

I would be surprised he would listen to reason and church history, he's so busy promoting his agenda of shame.

"Modesty Rocks" could also be reacting to the very real problem of provocative clothing and sexual immorality.
There are two approaches to temptation over nudity (or many other things):
1. Avoid it (sometimes a reasonable approach)
2. Face it head on and retrain your mind to accept nudity as not inherently sexual, but as the normal human condtion.

There remains the concern that our own nudity (especially if we are female) would imflame impure desire among those who are not accustomed to nudity. I am not quite sure the best way that society at large can make the transformation to a more platonic view of nudity, but social nudity seems to have achieved some measure of success with this.
I also find it interesting that advertising of mens suits has women being attracted to men who wear fine suits. Sexual? A suit you would wear to church? You betcha!

And women do find men sexually attractive who wear suits! How do we avoid them? We don't because we have no idea who is and who is not attracted.

I was trying on a suit at a mens store with my wife and MIL with me. While I was standing there with my back to them looking in a mirror while the salesman was adjusting the suit, they were admiring the way the coat tail hung gracefully over my rear end!

Boyd Allen
"May the Lord protect our nudity from the sight of those who will not benefit, and may he allow us to be seen by those who will."

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jochanaan
jochanaan

March 19th, 2007, 1:17 am #9

(Off-topic comment re Boyd's new suit: And they say women aren't stimulated by looking!?! *lol*)

If clothing were so important, why doesn't the Bible establish a dress code? Especially during Jesus' Sermon on the Mount when He talks about lust? And why is it recorded that when the Spirit of the Lord came upon King Saul and commanded Isaiah the prophet, they took off all their clothes? In public? For three years in Isaiah's case? roll eyes
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Terry
Terry

March 19th, 2007, 3:36 pm #10

I came across this website through a link to a posted Yahoo! group of the same nature. It seems to me as if they are all run by the same person. I respect the right of a person to choose not to participate in nudism/naturism. However, to me it seems like this person is "preaching" about something that may be "right" for him, and making it a much more confusing subject for others that it may not be "right" for. God created us in our naked state. Why would he give us a body that is so sinful just to expose or look at? It doesn't make sense...not at all. We are made in the image of God, period. End of story.

Check out the link: http://www.modestyrocks.com/
I started to lookk through his site, but I began to get dizzy. He seems to go on and on and use alot of bible verses as Christian catch phrases. Some people just analize everything wayyy too much like worrying about what clothing you can see through when wet or how much cling certain fabrics have. My "interpretation" of modesty is the Pharisees admonishing women for wearing too much finery and showing off their wealth, not the lack of clothing. I would agree slightly that many clothes are fashioned to express sexual attraction, but much of it is in the attitude of the wearer. He seems to be very fixated and paranoid about the human body. Since the Internet of still pretty much a forum for free expression, he can write whatever he wants. Just don't push your views onto me. Everything in life is an opinion, including religion, and my beliefs happen to differ from his.
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