Anybodys business?

Anybodys business?

Boyd Allen
Boyd Allen

January 31st, 2002, 6:57 pm #1

What do you all think of this? It was sent to me by a Christian Naturist who is not using this board right now.

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/toc.htm

It's hard to say what to derive from this, but we can gain some insite.

Boyd Allen
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KuzeN
KuzeN

January 31st, 2002, 11:56 pm #2

Boyd,

Let's think about a couple or three "consensual crimes".

1. "Recreational Drugs" starting with opium. Opium was legal and widely available
through the early 1900's except where locally outlawed. It was widely used in Laudnum
-- a mixture of opium in whiskey and was called "A Lady's Best Friend" for menstrual
pain relief. Many "respectable society" ladies were addicted to both main ingredients.
As is the case in all addictive agents, it eventually required more and more laudnum to
be effective:: My old buddy, "The Law of Dimenishing Returns". Families were
adversely affected and children learned not to talk about "Mama's
secrete".

I don't know how many people remember "Gunsmoke"; Doc would hand a whiskey
bottle to Sheriff Matt Dillon, telling him to take a couple of "good slugs". Then, Doc
would dig the bullet out while the Sheriff didn't feel the pain. NOT!!!! If a doctor were to
try to use enough alcohol to deaden pain during surgery to the point where the patient
didn't feel the pain, the patient's blood would be so thin that he would bleed to death.
During the War Between The [United] States, both sides used ether, chloroform, and
morphine for anethesia. A dried powder of laudnum was sprinkled on a wound site
before surgery so that the patient was already "fuzzy" by the time of surgery.

Opium is a very potent drug. I'm certain that most "members" this BBS have seen
pictures of old men lying on pallets smoking opium pipes. In the picture, which I've seen,
the "old man" was about 40 years old, but looked to be in his 70's. The underlying
motive for non-medical use of opium was MONEY!!! How did you guess the correct
answer??????

Cocaine was first used by denists for anethesia. However, side effects, included the
nose being eaten away because the dentist got cocaine on himself while applying it to
the patient - cummulative. Cocaine was originally the main ingredient in Coca Cola.
Cociane wasn't the big problem that it is now until it became widely available in
powdered form and later in the "rock" or "crack" form. It is highly addictive; families are
destroyed by this drug. The one factor pushing it is MONEY!!!

How about methamphetamines, "date rape" drugs?? The date rape drugs have
resulted in death, physical impaiments, brain problems, to say nothing of the emotional
trauma done to the girl or young woman. Even with all of the information available and
the best efforts of the prosecutors, juries occasionally reward the perpertraters with a
"Not Guilty". Women on such juries have said something to the effect that "she" got
what she deserved because she knew that this stuff is being used!!!! Oh well, it's
consensual!!!

2. Prostitution:: THE VICTIMLESS CRIME!! A prostitute is often a male.

Even the highest priced and "classiest call-girl/escort" runs the risk of aids, STD,
hepatitis B, to name a few "benefits". When she gets one of these, guess what??? She
ain't working for "the agency" no mo', no mo'. She's on her own.

Many of the prostitutes are "throw-away kids", mostly early teens, to say nothing of the
"runaways". The throw-aways are often thrown out by the mother; her new hubby and/or
boyfriend has told her that the kids must go in order for him to be able to stay. Many of
these kids are threatened with death if they don't leave. "Runaways" generally flee an
abusive and/or insectous parent, usually the [step]father. These kids wind up on the
streets in "big cities" with little or no money. They have to sell the only asset that they
posses, their bodies. Soon, they are befriended by a "nice" local; the price of that
friendship is addiction and prostitution. The "pimp" literally owns them and sells them on
the the street. They quickly fall victim to the diseases listed above. These kids are
beaten up "just for fun". When they're used up, out they go. Why not, there're plenty
more where they camr from.

The prostitute risks severe beatings and injuries at the hands of the "John", the
customer. They die of horrific disease processes. A number are killed every year.
After all, it was consensual, and she won't be missed.

3. The sexual laws prohibit "consensual sex". Have sex with a ten year-old girl; she
consented!!! That child doesn't understand consensuality. What she knows is that
something terrible happened. It must be my fault.
There is another "organization" [comprised of pedophiles], the North American Man Boy
Association [NAMBA]. Their slogan is "If not by eight, Too Late". Translation:: If we
don't introduce a boy to 'healthy sex' with a man by the time that he's eight years old, he
will NEVER appreciate sex. More translation, if 8 years old is too old, what is the
"proper" introductary age?? 6 months?? 2 years?? Although this outfit has been at the
fringes of the homosexual and lesbian movement, they now have supporters in that
crowd and aren't repudiated. They have mounted court cases when arrested and
proscecuted. As one of the leaders puts it, we SHALL find the "right" judge who will
uphold "our rights"!! YUP!!! More consensual activity!!

Gentle Reader, I trust that you "get the big picture". If you need more input about
consensuality run amok, read about a guy named Lot, whose neighbors wanted "to
know", read homosexual rape, Lot's guests -- 2 angels. For example, if cornered, those
who want to eliminate such laws may say that "throwing kids away" isn't nice. They will
not repudiate such actions.

Adam, you and Eva, pointed out that "good nudity" can help children. Could any of
these kids be helped, if we, as Christian Nudists, tried to intervene on their behalf??

KuzeN













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Friederike
Friederike

February 1st, 2002, 9:23 am #3

You see, I DO something else but reading here. But my new job turned out not to be the best as well, I had to make interviews with farmers, but they never had time, now I hopefully will be able to receive a job in the chemical industry soon.
I made an experience with nudists here, that was not so good. Last summer me and my fosterchild where swiming in the lake. Because he can´t swim so well, he went out on the naturist half-island to walk back. I swam back. Then the naturist men started to insult him because he wore a swimming suit. He ran through them, and was about to cry when he reached me. I was then very angry with them. I doubted that these naturists helped him.
We have this problem with "consentual" sex with teens/kids here as well. It exists between the German/Czech border. Men from here go over the border, have sex with kids and return as noble men, because they helped the poor communists to earn some money. Czech police doesn´t interfere, they live on their slush funds, German police can´t interfere because it´s not their land. I ask Adam and Eve what can be done about this?
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Adam & Eva
Adam & Eva

February 1st, 2002, 1:57 pm #4

Hi Friederike,

The experience you and your son have made is really sad. Unfortunately, being a naturist does not necessarily means all people of that SIG are more tolerant and friendly to other people of different opinion. Unserer Ansicht nach there is a big difference between keeping the rules of an official (usually paid and surrounded by fence) naturist/nudist resort from textile gawkers, and, the militant nudists who might chase out even the strayed swimmers reaching by accident the other bank that is considered to be „nudist only“ and „protecting“ their territory when being in an unofficial naturist resort where both groups should learn to live in peace with each other. We personally do not mind the textiles visiting „our“ unofficial naturist beach. Sometimes we do even pioneer the naturist life style among textiles when not having enough time to visit the naturist resort a lot more far from our town.

BTW, liebe Friederike, you are revealing the truth about your foster child step by step. Now it’s even more clear why your son does not want you to be in the nude even when being at home! He has been somehow „molested“ by the militant nudists. The first negative experience of a child might be very intensive and then decisive in his future attitude towards naturism. As love and loving frank attitude might heal even deep wounds and scars of a misused child, therefore, a natural way of enjoying the nudity in a family setting at first might be more helpful for him at the beginning before trying to join a social nudity resort. Then we would suggest to start a friendship with other Christian naturist family and involve the children as well. The children when seeing other fellows of the same age to get rid of the last piece of their dress at the beach will join them without any hesitation. He has to do his first experience concerning social nudity together with someone he would know and whom he could trust. We’ve learned it by experience with our friends as well.

Concerning the German border prostitution, the problem has far more deeper roots. I do not think our police lives on slush funds. We do trust them now. Anyway, you might know our complicated historical animosity that resulted in chasing all the Germans from our border territory at the end of the world war II far better then our American friends. Their homes remained empty and they were filled predominantly by Gipsies from Romania and Eastern Slovakia after the war as only few Czech people wanted to just fill the empty houses the Germans had to leave. The Gipsies do not (want to) work and they live from the state support. This is not enough and that is why they even entice their children to „earn“ some money. However, this is a common problem of the poor people at the society verge in any country.

We hope these problems wont deter you from visiting our country someday. Just go through Austria. There is no such problem behind the border.

Much love.

Looking forward to hear from you again.

Adam & Eva
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Jim
Jim

February 1st, 2002, 7:52 pm #5

What do you all think of this? It was sent to me by a Christian Naturist who is not using this board right now.

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/toc.htm

It's hard to say what to derive from this, but we can gain some insite.

Boyd Allen
Boyd,

I have only read a few scattered toics, but I get the general drift of the book, I think. Most people who research a particular issue, whether social, moral, ethical, racial, cultural, have their own pre-conceived ideas. This guy seems to be certain there are indeed many "victmless" consentual arrangements between adults. Perhaps he wants to justify some of his own behaviors and talk all of us into accepting them as normal. There is probably a lot of truth in various parts of the book. One of the best ways to promote an error is to couch it in the midst of lots of obvious truth. I agree that the government has much too much of a role in our personal lives and grabbing more all the time. On the other hand, to "explain away" some of the teachings of scripture to say that things God clearly condemns as the reason government should not get involved seems contradictory to the premise.

I'm not so quick to dismiss consequences of evil deeds as the author of the book is. There are untold "victims" directly or indirectly of so-called victimless crimes or deeds. Breaking moral law has moral and physical consequences. Moral law should be encouraged but it is very hard to determine at what point government should intervene. I guess the old addage that he who governs himself well does not need to be governed.

I'll have to read more of it when I have a chance. The explanations I read on Sodom and Gomorah and the passages on unnatural acts written by Paul in Romans, seemed out of context to me, while the author was saying that the plain understanding of them is somehow out of context.
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Boyd Allen
Boyd Allen

February 2nd, 2002, 2:18 am #6

I haven't had a chance to go back and read it since I posted this but I find that same problem.

He tends to put everything in the "consentual" category. Except for murder and rape, and even then, he could somehow make rape consentual.

When one "consents" to have sex outside of marriage, he does have victims, such as his wife, his children, his family, his wifes family, his community.

His weaknesses keeps him from guarding his family and protecting them. While he is off playing, his family is...?

I may find nudity in my yard safe and OK, but my neighbor seems to be harmed by it. How, I don't know. Personally I don't feel that would harm anyone, but I am not going out of my way to find out. I at least have enough concern to not do this to harm. But at the same time, I feel we should all have the freedom and even right to be able to live in our own homes and yards nude, as long as we don't go into our neighbors yard without their consent. Now that is where consent is needed.

That book is a bag of mixed cereal and I wonder which part of it is good for you and the part is nothing but flavoring and sugar.

Boyd Allen
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Friederike
Friederike

February 2nd, 2002, 7:28 am #7

What do you all think of this? It was sent to me by a Christian Naturist who is not using this board right now.

http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/books/aint/toc.htm

It's hard to say what to derive from this, but we can gain some insite.

Boyd Allen
prison, I found out that only the stupid criminals where captured and locked in. This seems to be the true consensus of our societies. If you are clever enough not to get caught, there you go, live along as noble man.
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Firederike
Firederike

February 2nd, 2002, 7:43 am #8

Hi Friederike,

The experience you and your son have made is really sad. Unfortunately, being a naturist does not necessarily means all people of that SIG are more tolerant and friendly to other people of different opinion. Unserer Ansicht nach there is a big difference between keeping the rules of an official (usually paid and surrounded by fence) naturist/nudist resort from textile gawkers, and, the militant nudists who might chase out even the strayed swimmers reaching by accident the other bank that is considered to be „nudist only“ and „protecting“ their territory when being in an unofficial naturist resort where both groups should learn to live in peace with each other. We personally do not mind the textiles visiting „our“ unofficial naturist beach. Sometimes we do even pioneer the naturist life style among textiles when not having enough time to visit the naturist resort a lot more far from our town.

BTW, liebe Friederike, you are revealing the truth about your foster child step by step. Now it’s even more clear why your son does not want you to be in the nude even when being at home! He has been somehow „molested“ by the militant nudists. The first negative experience of a child might be very intensive and then decisive in his future attitude towards naturism. As love and loving frank attitude might heal even deep wounds and scars of a misused child, therefore, a natural way of enjoying the nudity in a family setting at first might be more helpful for him at the beginning before trying to join a social nudity resort. Then we would suggest to start a friendship with other Christian naturist family and involve the children as well. The children when seeing other fellows of the same age to get rid of the last piece of their dress at the beach will join them without any hesitation. He has to do his first experience concerning social nudity together with someone he would know and whom he could trust. We’ve learned it by experience with our friends as well.

Concerning the German border prostitution, the problem has far more deeper roots. I do not think our police lives on slush funds. We do trust them now. Anyway, you might know our complicated historical animosity that resulted in chasing all the Germans from our border territory at the end of the world war II far better then our American friends. Their homes remained empty and they were filled predominantly by Gipsies from Romania and Eastern Slovakia after the war as only few Czech people wanted to just fill the empty houses the Germans had to leave. The Gipsies do not (want to) work and they live from the state support. This is not enough and that is why they even entice their children to „earn“ some money. However, this is a common problem of the poor people at the society verge in any country.

We hope these problems wont deter you from visiting our country someday. Just go through Austria. There is no such problem behind the border.

Much love.

Looking forward to hear from you again.

Adam & Eva
I didn´t know that point with the gypsies. I feel sad for the children anyway. Terrible things happened in the war and after the war and very often the inocent where stroken. I´m glad that my parents didn´t partake in the nazi regime, well my father had to go to war of course, he was eighteen then. He told me, he intentionaly always was shooting in the wrong direction in order not to hit anybody. He came in russian war prison, where he almost starved and returned five years later as a broken and disabled man. My mother was born 1934, she never joined the Hitler yought although she was so young, she detested Hitler. Anyway, isn´t it great that we can meet here as friends and christians? All wars could be omitted if all people where belivers. All people beeing naturists would not improve the world as much.
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KuzeN
KuzeN

February 2nd, 2002, 9:48 pm #9

Friederike,

Your father was a very brave and strong man to have survived the hell of Communist prisoner-of-war camps. Was/Is he a Christian??

I don't have any idea of when and where he was captured. For example, the German 6th Army under Gen. Paulus at Stalingrad numbered close to 600,000 men, including Romanians, Hungerians, and others when the Battle began. When Paulus surrendered what was left of the 6th Army, there were approximately 106,000 German and other Axis troops alive. When those troops were repatriated in 1949, fewer than 5,900 men remained alive.

The fact that your mother didn't join the Hilter Youth says a lot about her parents. Very few people were able to keep their children out of the Hitler Youth. The fact that you are a Christian today may well be due to that choice. Was this the Grandmother who went to a nudist camp in the 1920's?? If so, her influence still lives on through you.

KuzeN











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Boyd Allen
Boyd Allen

February 3rd, 2002, 11:44 am #10

prison, I found out that only the stupid criminals where captured and locked in. This seems to be the true consensus of our societies. If you are clever enough not to get caught, there you go, live along as noble man.
I have talked to prisoners before and they have learned one important thing in life: "how not to get caught next time".

Boyd
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