Douglas Bader's Mk VA Spitfire W3185

Douglas Bader's Mk VA Spitfire W3185

Joined: November 15th, 2006, 3:26 am

June 16th, 2010, 1:41 am #1

I'm building a flying model of ZDouglas Bader's VA Spitfire W3185, the aircraft he was shot down in for my brother-in-law. I have decals coming from the States for it but I want to know, the leading edge of his aircraft was painted yellow but from where on the wing was it painted? I can only assume that it was from where the inner most machine gun would've been fitted? (cannon on the later marks).

Can anyone help out? The picture refs on Google aren't overly clear.

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI
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Joined: July 10th, 2006, 8:52 am

June 16th, 2010, 8:08 am #2

From memory it was one of the few MkV Spits to have the "A" type wing.So 8 machine guns
Hard to see the yellow leading edge in this pic.
Last edited by 54Spitty on June 16th, 2010, 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 25th, 2009, 9:56 pm

June 16th, 2010, 8:49 am #3

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Joined: January 13th, 2007, 3:34 am

June 16th, 2010, 9:01 am #4

I'm building a flying model of ZDouglas Bader's VA Spitfire W3185, the aircraft he was shot down in for my brother-in-law. I have decals coming from the States for it but I want to know, the leading edge of his aircraft was painted yellow but from where on the wing was it painted? I can only assume that it was from where the inner most machine gun would've been fitted? (cannon on the later marks).

Can anyone help out? The picture refs on Google aren't overly clear.

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI
I was always under the impression that W3185 was finished in the early DE/DG/Sky scheme, which would imply that it didn't have yellow recognition bands on the leading edges.

That said, I found a profile here that shows them (but is it correct?):
http://www.markstyling.com/spitfiresmkv1.htm

If indeed it did carry the said yellow markings, then your assumption of their location would seem correct.
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Joined: December 25th, 2009, 9:56 pm

June 16th, 2010, 9:01 am #5

I'm building a flying model of ZDouglas Bader's VA Spitfire W3185, the aircraft he was shot down in for my brother-in-law. I have decals coming from the States for it but I want to know, the leading edge of his aircraft was painted yellow but from where on the wing was it painted? I can only assume that it was from where the inner most machine gun would've been fitted? (cannon on the later marks).

Can anyone help out? The picture refs on Google aren't overly clear.

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI
Andrew

Bader went down on August 9th 1941. The following excerpt was taken from: http://cs.finescale.com/FSMCS/forums/t/62619.aspx

"After the Battle of Britain the RAF increased its operations over the mainland Europe. The Green/Dark Earth/Sky camouflage (Day Fighter Scheme) used at the time was no longer found to be suitable for those operations. Experiments were carried out to find a better alternative and the Air Ministry issued orders that the new scheme be introduced gradually as and when convenient after the 15th August 1941. Ocean Grey replaced Dark Earth and Medium Sea Grey replaced Sky on the undersurfaces. Spinners were to be painted Sky and an 18 inch Sky band painted around the rear fuselage. Both for identification purposes. In addition a 4 inch yellow band was painted on outer wing leading edges to help pilots identify friend from foe while head-on. Squadron and individual letters were standardised at 24 inches and the colour changed to Sky (probably because MSG codes wouldn't show up against Ocean Grey)."

So using logic, if the above info is correct he would have been shot down before it was introduced on the 15th August.(Doesn't mean it wasn't done anyway without approval)

Also on same page:

Jeff Herne replied on Wed, May 31 2006 1:01 PM Reply

Just as an FYI, the yellow wing stripes on RAF fighters were to extend from the wingtips for a distance of 8 feet.

So if you wan't the Yellow strip, looks like 4 inches by 8 feet it is.

Best of luck with all this
Cheers Bill


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Joined: April 1st, 2010, 7:21 am

June 16th, 2010, 9:23 am #6

I'm building a flying model of ZDouglas Bader's VA Spitfire W3185, the aircraft he was shot down in for my brother-in-law. I have decals coming from the States for it but I want to know, the leading edge of his aircraft was painted yellow but from where on the wing was it painted? I can only assume that it was from where the inner most machine gun would've been fitted? (cannon on the later marks).

Can anyone help out? The picture refs on Google aren't overly clear.

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI
Andrew,
IIRC, Bader was shot down in this aircraft on 9 August. The orders requiring that the LE be Yellow were not introduced until 15 August. I would therefore expect W3185 to be In the temperate scheme of Dark Green / Dark Earth / Sky with no Yellow LE. My two penneth for what it's worth.
Cheers,
Peter
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Joined: July 10th, 2006, 8:52 am

June 16th, 2010, 9:32 am #7

Tonight..Thanks for the correction
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Joined: November 15th, 2006, 3:26 am

June 16th, 2010, 9:40 am #8

I'm building a flying model of ZDouglas Bader's VA Spitfire W3185, the aircraft he was shot down in for my brother-in-law. I have decals coming from the States for it but I want to know, the leading edge of his aircraft was painted yellow but from where on the wing was it painted? I can only assume that it was from where the inner most machine gun would've been fitted? (cannon on the later marks).

Can anyone help out? The picture refs on Google aren't overly clear.

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI
It appears that Pete Malone is indeed right (again). I have found a number of prints available of Bader's a/c W3185 none of which have the yellow leading edge except for that artist impression from side on and the other pics I found of VAs didn't have the yellow leading edge either.

W3185 was the a/c Bader was shot down in. I happened to find a You Tube short biography on him which shows him getting into what appears to be a Mk X with smaller DB markings on the fuselage but none of his VA.

So, in saying this I shall leave the yellow leading edges off and proceed onwards with the build. My decals have arrived in Oz, so I should have this project finished sometime next week.

Thanks guys for your help.

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI
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Joined: May 10th, 2007, 1:51 am

June 16th, 2010, 10:52 am #9

I'm building a flying model of ZDouglas Bader's VA Spitfire W3185, the aircraft he was shot down in for my brother-in-law. I have decals coming from the States for it but I want to know, the leading edge of his aircraft was painted yellow but from where on the wing was it painted? I can only assume that it was from where the inner most machine gun would've been fitted? (cannon on the later marks).

Can anyone help out? The picture refs on Google aren't overly clear.

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI
I purchased last week from my LHS. I will send you the instructions. As far as you can trust Hasegawa callouts, it does not show the LE in yellow and the DG/DE/S colour scheme. Althrough they have the spinner as white and I am sure it should be Sky. is that correct?

Regards

Kent in Oz
Last edited by Kahunaminor on June 16th, 2010, 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 15th, 2006, 3:26 am

June 16th, 2010, 11:46 am #10

or was it sky blue too.

Peter Malone-Can you shed any light here?

Regards

Andrew Doppel
Assistant Moderator AMI
Last edited by AndrewDoppel on June 16th, 2010, 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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