(3/27/04 8:57 pm)
Ravenmaize asked in another forum:
You're so adorable. I like how you quickly develop another argument when a previous one was disproven. Didn't you say based on an incorrect statement in Parade magazine that Madonna struggled selling tickets for her last tour? Interesting, because when I tried getting tickets to her Miami show this morning, it sold out in 10 minutes. What are your thoughts?
I don't think Parade's statments were 'incorrect.' And Parade was not the only place that reported that. There were other sources that say she did not sell out some dates in New York (for the last tour).
Public interest in Madonna has already been waning for awhile now.
I don't know the size of her venues for this tour - if each arena she plays in holds, say, 1,000 people, then no, I'm not surprised that she'd sell out -- question is, who is she selling to?
I also don't trust any numbers that come from Madonna's camp, as she has been known to fudge the data to make it look as though she sold more CDs, books, or whatever than she really did.
The people who will be attending this next concert are most likely older people (over age 30) and are the die-hards. Madonna will not be able to tempt persons such as myself, or those younger than me (e.g., those who like Britney Spears) to attend her concerts.
Also, didn't she used to play huge stadiums back in her hey-day? Could she still pack large venues? I doubt that she could.*
*There is one exception to this that I can think of -- if, for example, Madonna said that she was going to have only one European date, and that it would be in England at Wembly -- (however that's spelled) -- then I've no doubt that every 30+ year old die- hard fan would flock to see it, in which case, Wembly (which is huge, isn't it?) would fill up. You'd have people from Germany, France, etc., flying in to see her in England.
Since there is a rumor that this could be her last tour, again, I wouldn't find it surprising that she sells more tickets from teary eyed fans who are afraid they'll never get to see her again in person.
The point is not so much that she can't sell any tickets at all but that she's having a much harder time holding on to her fan base and increasing its numbers. Here's the original article:
Madonna is washed up (From Parade Magazine)
Q: Madonna recently released American Life. Do you think it will be the hit she's been desperately seeking for the past few years? -- Dottie T., San Francisco, Calif.
A: No. In the last decade, only Ray of Light (1998) topped 3 million in sales, and we predict this album will be a disappointment too. At 44, Madonna has lost much of her teen and young adult fan base and has been supplanted by younger female pop stars such as Avril Lavigne, 18, Christina Aguilera, 22, and Pink, 23.
[the photo's caption reads]:
Madonna during her last tour: The pop diva's audience is still sizable but getting older -- and apparently smaller
(3/28/04 11:41 am)
Quote:My thoughts are you need to be posting this kind of thing in the Cranky Fan Forum. Look for my response there.
Sorry Flea Dip. It's been a while since I've posted here and I forgot.
Quote:I don't think Parade's statements were 'incorrect.' And Parade was not the only place that reported that. There were other sources that say she did not sell out some dates in New York (for the last tour).
I'd like to see those specific articles. The 2001 Boxscores in Billboard magazine can provide you with statistics on every show that Madonna sold out in the US and Europe. It's funny that you mention New York. Her shows sold out so fast that she ended up performing 5 shows at Madison Square Garden. It's surprising that you would be so vague as to say "other sources" without providing a reference.
Quote:I don't know the size of her venues for this tour - if each arena she plays in holds, say, 1,000 people, then no, I'm not surprised that she'd sell out -- question is, who is she selling to?
1000? LOL!!! Try 20,000 with 2-4 shows in each city. You can view the dates on www.ticketmaster.com. Selling out 3 shows in 90 minutes at the United Center in Chicago is certainly an indication that public interest has died down. And those figures are from TicketMaster, not Madonna's camp. I'd like to see where Madonna said she would have only one European date. Currently she has 3 in London and 3 in Paris with more dates in Europe confirmed this week. Again, sometimes anti-Madonna fans tend to have a linear paradigm. It's either black or white.
Quote:Since there is a rumor that this could be her last tour, again, I wouldn't find it surprising that she sells more tickets from teary eyed fans who are afraid they'll never get to see her again in person.
Flea, this contradicts what you are saying. You have said many times that Madonna's fan base has reduced substantially. If this were certainly the case I can't figure out why she would be selling out at such a rapid pace. In addition, the same rumors on her current tour being her "last tour" has been going around since Girlie Show in 1993. Weak argument.
Quote:Also, didn't she used to play huge stadiums back in her hey-day? Could she still pack large venues? I doubt that she could. The point is not so much that she can't sell any tickets at all but that she's having a much harder time holding on to her fan base and increasing its numbers.
You're right. Her 1987 Who's That Girl tour and her European leg of her 1990 Blond Ambition tour were stadium shows. No one can say that Madonna could pack the massive numbers that she did at the peak of her career. You can't compare her current career to 1990, just as you couldn't compare U2's career to the 1987 Joshua Tree era, Michael Jackson's 1988 era, or Prince in 1984. All of them have passed their peak. Madonna has had tons of artists sell more than her in album sales since 1990 (i.e. Boyz to Men) and many of those same couldn't even pack a high school gym these days.
You're cute Flea Dip. If you look at the trend of your post, at first you say that public interest has been "waning" for a while, then you say Warner Bros is misleading the numbers, then you say that she's only selling out because people think it's her last tour, then you say she's not attracting younger audiences, then you say she can't fill stadiums anymore, and then you finish it off by saying it's not that she can't sell tickets but that she's struggling. This is one of your weaker arguments because you're drawing on assumptions rather than facts. If you want to look at facts, I would recommend that you go to Billboard and pull the figures of the Box Scores. Billboard also provided the same figures of her American Life sales which I see you reference quite often. The figures will appear 2 weeks after her tour begins on May 24. Parade, a conservative, Sunday tabloid edition, is a far less credible source than Billboard. :good:
(4/18/04 10:15 pm)
Hundreds of unsold tickets on ebay make me think her people or scalpers gobbled them up, thinking they'll make a huge profit. They are going unsold. No one's paying more than hundred if that for her Reanimation Tour. Her people will fill the seats with wax dummies for photo-ops inorder to make it look good. Again, the shows sold out, but hundreds are on sale. The people who bought them don't want to see her, they want to resell them for profit.
Get a brain, Madonna fans
(4/19/04 12:03 pm)
Empty seats at Madonna concert filled with...
seats with wax dummies for photo-ops
And I bet they'll all look suspiciously like these:
(4/25/04 6:49 pm)
Flea's points based upon common sense shown to be true
Something I'm looking into at the moment is this:
just because many tickets are sold for a Madonna concert doesn't mean that the seats themselves are filled.
For example, if a venue has 100 seats and she sells 100 tickets, how many people actually show up the day of the concert? Is it 100, or maybe 50? 25? 3? Are these honest to goodness fans, or people who have been pulled in off the streets and paid by "Madonna Inc." to fill up the seats?
I'm more interested in that than in sales per se. I was at first thinking that ticket sales could be a rough estimate of how filled her shows are.
But as I mention below, ticket sales (or any kind of sales in Madonna's case) may not be an accurate or honest barometer.
Madonna fans have been known to buy up multiple Madonna products (whether those products be books or records) to make it appear as though McDonna has sold more "widgets" than she actually has, thereby giving a false impression that she is still quite popular with the masses --
-- when the truth seems to be that an ever-diminishing, aging fan base is buying up her crap.
You're right. Her 1987 Who's That Girl tour and her European leg of her 1990 Blond Ambition tour were stadium shows. No one can say that Madonna could pack the massive numbers that she did at the peak of her career.
You can't compare her current career to 1990, just as you couldn't compare U2's career to the 1987 Joshua Tree era, Michael Jackson's 1988 era, or Prince in 1984. All of them have passed their peak.
I don't think it unreasonable for me to compare her efforts of today to her height 'o' fame back in the mid 80s or even the bit of success she had in the early 1990s.
After all, it's you, her die hard fans, who have created this very standard: you insist that Madonna is still magically stuck in this time warp where everyone just hangs on every word she says, and how she can still sell boat loads of tickets when she goes on tour in this day and age -- this last point being something you've argued in favor for in this very post!
Madonna has had tons of artists sell more than her in album sales since 1990 (i.e. Boyz to Men) and many of those same couldn't even pack a high school gym these days.
This still doesn't change the fact that outside of her die hard fans, most folks don't very much care about her, and that she isn't pulling in many newer (read: under age 30) fans.
One reason why she is still drawing crowds, say, verses bands such as Boys 2 Men or New Kids on the Block:
Because the Gap Toothed Idiot was a media whore (and continues to be one). She has more name recognition as a result. Off and on, she worked quite hard at pimping herself to the media.
As I've said in other forums here, pop singer Cyndi Lauper, who was around at the same time as Madonna, should've received more media than she did. Lauper, who possessed talent, (unlike Madonna), deserved to be covered more. Debbie Harry and Benatar were also more deserving of coverage than Madonna.
Instead, the idiots in the media slathered all over Madonna (probably because more 13 year old girls were dressing in "Boy Toy" clothing at the time - that and her manufactured controversy revolving around sex and religion), neglecting many other fine performers (usually of the female gender) of the 1980s.
It got so bad that by the late 80s / early 90s, if Madonna so much as farted or got a paper cut it landed her on the cover of TIME Magazine.
(However, Madonna isn't the only '80s performer who can draw people in; one article, which I cite below, mentions that recent --or upcoming-- concerts by 1980s male acts Prince and U2 have created interest as well. So before we go lauding Madonna by saying, "What other older bands do you know who could still sell so many tickets?," take that into consideration.)
For some bizarre reason, the journalists were infatuated with Madonna, and so I believe they were out of touch with the public. I don't think it was your average Joe Blow who was clamoring to see photos of Madonna on every rag's cover.
I know I wasn't.
One small tip-off that the other "Joe Blows" of the world were tiring of Madonna is that by the early or mid 90s, she became the butt of jokes on late night shows - Leno, Letterman and the rest would trash her, mostly because all were tired of her sleaze (this was the time her sluttiness culminated in the Sex book), but I think also because we were all sick of her PERIOD.
And notice Madonna got wind of that. During the mid '90s to late '90s, she didn't do as much career-wise. She seemed to drop out of the public eye a little. I think she was afraid of media over-exposure, which is a little ironic as in her world, she is unnaturally in love with fame.
I'd like to see those specific articles. The 2001 Boxscores in Billboard magazine can provide you with statistics on every show that Madonna sold out in the US and Europe. It's funny that you mention New York. Her shows sold out so fast that she ended up performing 5 shows at Madison Square Garden. It's surprising that you would be so vague as to say "other sources" without providing a reference.
I got this information from a friend, but I think I recall seeing one or two web-based articles as well. I will e-mail my friend and see if they can give me the magazine names and/or URLs that contain the information.
You should know that I never lie about Madonna and Madonna-related information. As I state on my site, I like telling the truth about her, because that hurts her worse than anything.
I want to expose her for what she is, not make up crap to make people hate her. They should hate her for what she says, does, and represents. Madonna hate should stem from the truth about the 'ho.
You're cute Flea Dip. If you look at the trend of your post, at first you say that public interest has been "waning" for a while, then you say Warner Bros is misleading the numbers, then you say that she's only selling out because people think it's her last tour, then you say she's not attracting younger audiences, then you say she can't fill stadiums anymore, and then you finish it off by saying it's not that she can't sell tickets but that she's struggling
I like to speculate. All of those things are theories, and each one (or a combination of any of those things or all of them) could play a role.
I'm not sure why you seem to be having a hard time understanding that, or why you seem to think it's a contradiction for a person to wonder if "x," "y," or "z" could be a factor as to why "such and such" a thing has happened.
I'd like to see where Madonna said she would have only one European date.
Go back and re-read my post closely: I never said that Madonna said - or that her publicists said there would only be one European tour.
I was attempting to explain yet another possible explanation as to why the old hag may be selling out at some venues: if she doesn't perform a ton of dates, then her die-hards will figure they have to see her when she stops in their respective home towns.
Flea, this contradicts what you are saying. You have said many times that Madonna's fan base has reduced substantially.
Let's pretend that Madonna perpetually remains age 45, that she never ages another day. Do you really think that 70 years from now her concerts will be selling out, that she will have as many fans?
Another factor to consider:
As another board member pointed out, the Madonna concert tickets which have sold may have been bought up by scalpers. Further, many 2004 tickets have been listed on e-bay and nobody is bidding on them (at least last time I checked, which was yesterday or day before).
Madonna herself could've bought up tons of the things.
Madonna and her Hordes of Evil Minions (i.e., her staff) had you and the other fans run out and buy multiple copies of American Life and her English Roses book.
Also with record sales, Madonna counted albums shipped to stores as being the same as albums sold.
There were fans in Madonna discussion boards encouraging one another to go out and by duplicate copies of the kiddie books and AL record.
In other words, ravenmaize, it is NOT unprecedented or unheard of for Madonna and her Flying Monkeys to lie, exaggerate, and use dubious tactics to make Madonna look bigger and better. (There is a REASON why McDonna has publicity relations people on her staff, after all.)
To put this another way (at first I used my "what if Madonna were to remain 45 yrs old" example):
Back in her hey-day, Madonna may have had (just making up a figure) 500 million fans. Well, these 500 million fans have gotten older. She is not attracting new fans in addition to the 500 million.
I would further suggest that some of these 500 million lost interest in her years ago and are busy raising their kids and holding full time jobs nowadays.
But apparently, there are enough zombified fans ages 30+ left over who are filling up some of these concerts.
And btw, it's not just me who's been saying this, it's other articles, which I've cited.
It's also common sense.
How many people in their 20s (or under, i.e., in their teens) these days are Madonna fans? Be honest.
You know very well that most people under 30 these days are listening to, or are fans of, various rap peformers (which Madonna knows as well, which is why she did that lame rap in American Life to corner that market).
A lot of teeny boppers and those in their early 20s here in 2004 seem to prefer Justin Timberlake, Beyonce Knowles, and of course, you'll always have your "head banger" types who will listen to only heavy metal and hard rock. Madonna does not figure into their universe.
Even though Spears isn't doing too well these days (at least according to critics who have trashed her recent tour), reports are being made that one can still find plenty 13 - 14 year olds at her concerts (their moms cover their eyes during the raunchy parts and then lead them out are what the concert reviews are saying).
Can Madonna draw in 13 and 14 yr. olds (or those under 13/14) anymore? Hardly -- unless the 35 year old parents drag them along, as was the case when Madonna was signing kiddie books in person (though the age range was like 4 - 5 years for the kids).
Decades from now when her original fan base of the 500 million are in their 70s or else dead, how many Madonna fans will be left? She isn't replenishing her fan base, is the point.
I would hope that people ages 30 and up would have wised up by now, realized what a shallow money grubber, people using b***h Madonna is and stop spending their money to see her on tour. As long as my fellow geezers keep showing up to see her, I suppose she will be able to rake in some money.
If this were certainly the case I can't figure out why she would be selling out at such a rapid pace.
....... You're cute Flea Dip. If you look at the trend of your post, at first you say that public interest has been "waning" for a while,
Public interest is waning in her - nobody bought American Life. That should be one clue.
The Venereal Girl realizes the general public has lost interest, which is why she lowered herself to appear in GAP ads, allow a company to use her song in a commercial, etc. Back in the good ol' days she had too much of an ego to do those things that often.
If she was just as popular now as back then, she wouldn't be doing such overtly commercialized things, nor would she be sucking up to others as she's been doing for the past few years. There is a calculated reason why she kissed Britney at the 2003 VMAs, you know.
Teeny boppers and most in their 20s don't want to see Madonna in concert. Folks in my parents' age range (over 50 -- hey -- over age 60) won't be buying "Reinvention Tour" tickets, so ask yourself, who does that leave?
Who else but people ages 30+ can afford tickets that cost $300 or more? Madonna may have enough older, die-hard fans to sell out a stadium here or there, but overall, most people don't care for her or about her anymore.
In addition, the same rumors on her current tour being her "last tour" has been going around since Girlie Show in 1993.
Since I began intentionally trying to tune Madonna out around 1991 or so, I wouldn't know that there were such rumors going around in 1993, (nor do I know anything about the "Girlie Show," except for the few photos from it I saw where Madonna was wearing a stupid looking blond, frizzy wig).
The last time I paid Madonna any great attention (before making my anti-Maddy site in spring 2003) was around the time she did the "Justify Your Love" video and "Vogue." (I mentioned this all at my site.)
It was about that time I made a decision that if the media were not going to stop cramming her down my throat then I was going to do my best to ignore her.
In addition, the same rumors on her current tour being her "last tour" has been going around since Girlie Show in 1993. Weak argument.
I don't see how it's a 'weak argument.'
I had to edit this post to add this point:
And that was not something I made up - it came to my attention on the web while scrounging about for new anti-Madonna material for the discussion board.
Various music-related sites or entertainment sites I came across (sites similiar to E! Online, Salon, contact music, etc) were speculating that this could be her last tour, and that some fans may be scared that this could be their last chance to see Madonna in concert.
One reason they were saying this is that they noticed that she was basically making this "Reinvention Tour" a "golden oldies" type of tour, focusing on her old songs. I actually think it's a very good observation, and it may have a grain (or more) of truth in it.
Notice Madonna is having to attract her older (and shrinking) fan base by playing her older songs this time 'round, (and after she said in previous years that she was never going to sing such oldies as "Material Girl" etc. ever again).
The last time Madonna went on tour and didn't include oldies, some fans were very angry about it. She probably realized that her old fans weren't going to show up if she left out older material.
Looks like my some of my assumptions were proven correct. One of my contentions is that Madonna's fan base is smaller and mainly consists of people ages 30 on up. A Madonna fan site recently posted an article about the current state of the concert / touring business (page two of said article[/i]) which bears out some of my views.
...this season's hot nostalgia tickets are, like, totally '80s! Madonna, Prince, and Van Halen... will be rocking arenas. Okay, so they've all been humbled since Reaganomics reigned: Madonna's coming off her worst-selling studio album ever...
.... like any VH1 programmer knows, the only thing aging music fans love more than watching their idols stage a comeback is paying huge sums to sing along to their classic hits ("Borderline," anyone?)
Joel Peresman, an exec VP at NYC's Madison Square Garden, a venue both [Prince] ... and Her Madgesty [Madonna] will visit, is thrilled with the response: "We originlly put up two Madonna shows and had to add four more." All six night sold out quicker than a ray of light.
So you wanna see Maddy up close? It'll cost -- gulp!-- $300. Such whopping charges are the main source of the industry's record-breaking revenues.
The average ticket price has nearly doubled in seven years -- from $26 in 1996 to $50 last year. That steep inflation had a negative impact at the turnstiles.
But after years of decline, 2003 saw an increase in overall attendance, partly thanks to lower prices for teen-friendly shows (e.g.. Britney Spears, Incubus, Dave Matthews band].
... [Multiday musical festival] Bonnaroo cofounder Richard Goodstone attributes the success to understanding niche musical tastes and delivering a unique cultural experiene: "Music lovers are willing to travel hundres of miles to an even if they believe it will be one of a kind."
Britney and Xtina [Christina Aguilera] may play to packed houses, but older artists with proven boomer appeal (like first-quarter MVPs Bette Midler and Rod Stewart) are the ones who really make the touring biz go 'round. In fact, 14 of the top 25 touring acts last year were over 40 - just like their core audience...
[Source: Entertainment weekly / the issue date is
04/09/2004 by way of Madonna mega collection site]
edited to fix typeos, HTML problems etc -- added a few paragraphs
Edited by: flea dip at: 4/26/04 1:48 am
(4/26/04 1:53 am)
Britney Spears Outselling Madonna Re Tour Merchandise
On a fun, related note:
April 26, 2004
Spears tour merchandise leads female acts
By Tamara Conniff
Britney Spears' cumulative concert merchandise sales reached more than $30 million during the first leg of her North American Onyx Hotel tour, the highest total for a solo female artist in that time span.
The $30 million total is based on Spears tours since June 1999, including 1999's Baby ... One More Time tour, 2001's Oops ... I Did It Again tour and 2002's Dream Within a Dream tour as well as the first part of the Onyx Hotel tour.
The Onyx tour alone, which begins its European dates today in London, is expected to gross more than $10 million in merchandise revenue.
In the 25 tour dates of the North American leg, Spears' merchandise sales averaged $150,000-$170,000 a night, reaching a high of $180,000 during the Los Angeles show March 8, according to Dell Furano, CEO of Signatures Network Inc., a leading merchandising and licensing company that handles Spears products.
"Many times what happens is, as your audience ages, you still can sell tickets and albums, but your merchandise sales will start to decline," Furano said. "With Britney, as she's gone to an older audience, her audience is still as passionate about her. Ultimately, merchandise is a reflection of the passion they feel for the artist and the show."
Spears' demo in 1999, and the average demo for pop artists, is ages 8-14. Furano said this demo usually has the highest per-head purchase power because most often it's the parents who take their kids to shows and stand in line to buy merchandise. Spears' average audience for the current tour is 16-24 and leaning toward the female side, Furano said. She also has a strong gay fan base.
"Now there aren't parents going to the shows, unless they're just a fan," Furano said [this is somewhat contrary to reviews of the Onyx Hotel tour by professional critics who have stated that they have seen parents in the audience with their kids].
"It's late teens and young twentysomethings that are going to the show and are buying the merchandise for themselves because they just think Britney's cool. This is about a cool factor."
Spears' best-selling products include the pink "Toxic" baby-doll shirt, the Onyx Hotel fashion jersey and tour programs and posters.
"I think part of it reflects her songs like 'Toxic' and 'Outrageous,' " Furano said. "A lot of the merchandise picks up themes of the songs and of the show."
Merchandising also is becoming many music stars' answer to lackluster record sales.
"The world of the record royalties and significant earnings from records is down dramatically," Furano said. "That reflects three things: Artists need to tour to promote record sales; revenue from ticket sales are very significant to the income stream now that record sales are down; and merchandise. Britney Spears is going to gross over $10 million (for this tour), (and) half of that she'll end up putting in her pocket."
Signatures Network also handles the merchandise for Madonna, who Furano said "breaks sales records every night" while touring [But she hasn't outsold Spears]. The main reason why Spears' sales figures over the past five years are higher than Madonna's is because Madonna has only toured once in that period versus Spears' four outings [But she hasn't outsold Spears].
Signatures Network holds worldwide merchandising and marketing rights to more than 125 top music artists and entertainment properties, including Bruce Springsteen, U2, the Beatles, Jessica Simpson, Ozzy Osbourne and Tim McGraw.
(4/28/04 10:45 pm)
M, Institution and Rebel, but Not Quite the Diva of Old
New York Times
March 31, 2003
Madonna, Institution and Rebel, but Not Quite the Diva of Old
...By LYNETTE HOLLOWAY
This is how the music world is changing: Madonna, who has been a pop diva for two decades, may be looking at the final stages of a long career.
..."Music," released in 2000, has sold 2.9 million copies and "Ray of Light," released in 1998, has sold 3.7 million copies, compared with "Like a Virgin," which has sold more than 10 million copies since its release in 1984, according to Nielsen Sound- Scan, which tracks album sales, and the Recording Industry Association of America, which certifies sales.
...To sell records, many record labels are turning to the younger female pop artists, like Gwen Stefani of No Doubt, Avril Lavigne and Christina Aguilera, who dominate the music world, making Madonna appear less and less commercially relevant these days.
...The video ["American Life"], which was still being edited last week, will be introduced on VH1 on Wednesday. The label is working with America Online to promote the
The song, which was released to Top 40's radio stations nationwide last week, made it onto the playlists of most major radio stations. But it has been so long since Madonna has had a hit that radio stations are wondering if listeners want to hear her new material.
"Radio is still searching for her relevance," said Robert P. Burke, vice president and managing director at Friday Morning Quarterback, a radio trade publication.
"There is some question of how much she appeals to kids. But she deserves the benefit of the doubt. Every time Madonna does something, she makes news, and program directors add her to their playlists to be on board, upfront if something happens."
Music promoters say that marketing Madonna to teenagers and young adults is difficult because most people in those age groups do not like to listen to the same music their parents do. Madonna, 44, is the same age or older than the parents of the target demographic of most record companies, they say.
Her fan base is now made up mostly of people older than 25 and gay listeners, though she has retained a large international following. (She lives in Britain with her two young children and Mr. Ritchie.)
Her somewhat older audience poses a problem because the biggest consumers of CD's are between the ages of
11 to 25, and they are more apt to buy records by artists like Ms.
Lavigne, Ms. Aguilera and Pink, who have far surpassed Madonna in record sales. An album by Ms. Lavigne, "Let Go," released last June by BMG's Arista Records, has sold 5.1 million copies so far, according to SoundScan. Ms. Aguilera's album "Stripped," released last October by BMG's RCA Records, has already sold 2.2 million copies, according to
"People will pay attention to Madonna's new album when it comes out," Judy McGrath, president of MTV Networks Music Group, said. "They will be interested and curious. But I'm not sure that 17-year-olds will go out and buy her CD. And that's the audience she really needs to capture."
(4/29/04 7:14 pm)
| Del Common sense? I've never seen so many speculations in a counter-argument such as this one Flea Dip. Where your article on the contradictions of the American Life project were compelling, your support for this one is well, ambiguous and unimpressive considering it took you about a month to write. Again this is your website so I'll give you this one. Let's say that 30% of her tickets sold were actual die-hard fans, 30% were scalpers wanting to make a profit and 40% was the company buying off the tickets in order to make her shows a sellout but willing to take a loss since they will give tickets away. :good: Madonna is OVER!
(4/29/04 7:36 pm)
I've never seen so many speculations in a counter-argument such as this one Flea Dip. :lol
Actually, some of my post was not a counter argument. Let me clarify the situation again. Months ago, I came up with many different theories as to why I believed that Madonna's tickets may be selling. You then at some point after this made a post saying that I was "contradicting" myself.
I then pointed out that I enjoy speculating, and I'm still unsure how theorizing/speculating is bad or hurtful to my anti-Madonna position. Some of my theories may contradict other theories I have (or have held before), but so what? What of it?
Where your article on the contradictions of the American Life project were compelling, your support for this one is well, ambiguous and unimpressive considering it took you about a month to write.
First of all, what difference or bearing does it have if it took me five seconds to respond or ten years?
At first I ignored your post, then I clicked on it, and I read it. I particulary did not enjoy the part where it was implied that I was lying about some information (e.g., "Where is the source for 'xyz?'") ~That was the thing that made me respond.
I also just do not understand what you mean here by, "Where your article on the contradictions of the American Life project were compelling, your support for this one is well, ambiguous and unimpressive".
When you say "where your article..." -- to which article are you referring?
Again this is your website so I'll give you this one.
Please, no charity.
The "common sense" was referring to some of the points of mine that were backed up by an article (from Entertainment weekly) which I pasted at the bottom of my previous post. -- ah wait, I have a browser window open with that post, and I see that I've already
explained it clearly enough there.
Even if it could be determined that 100% of Madonna's tickets were bought by Madonna fans, it just means that I have to keep my fingers crossed and wait in agony until the old hag finally dries up and is gone pretty much for good.
One last point: how do we know that 100% of tickets sold = 100 people attending the concert?
I've asked fellow Madonna haters to help me find any info about that. I've looked some myself, but haven't found any sites that offer such analytical or statistical information.
Madonna can sell all 100 tickets, but if there's only 5 or 6 people that actually show up...
(4/30/04 12:14 am)
You seem to have a few genuine questions so I'll answer some of them
Quote:I then pointed out that I enjoy speculating, and I'm still unsure how theorizing/speculating is bad or hurtful to my anti-Madonna position. Some of my theories may contradict other theories I have (or have held before), but so what? What of it?
I like your site because some of your arguments are valid. I think logically. Reading your article about why Madonna 's American Life album is full of contradictions because of her GAP ads, milllion dollar houses, designer clothing, Microsoft contract, etc. are strong because you offer substantial illustrations. Speculating that Madonna has primarily sold tickets but not individuals coming to the show is ridiculous. For a company to predominately purchase tickets to re-sell or give away would result in such a financial loss that it would make no sense to even tour, regardless if part of the objective was to convey popularity. Since Madonna is greedy, this argument is dismissed. Therefore, speculation doesn't always lead to validity. These points are weak. Just an opinion
Quote:At first I ignored your post, then I clicked on it, and I read it. I particulary did not enjoy the part where it was implied that I was lying about some information (e.g., "Where is the source for 'xyz?'" ~That was the thing that made me respond.
I didn't imply that you were lying. I was dubious of your sources. I'm basing my source on measurable metrics from Billboard (The same source you used to measure Madonna's poor American Life record sales) and attending the shows myself in New York and Oakland.
Quote: When you say "where your article..." -- to which article are you referring?
I don't have the exact article because you've changed your welcome page. Parts of this commentary I agree with:
http://antimadonna.ms11.net//site_artic ... crite.html
Quote:The "common sense" was referring to some of the points of mine that were backed up by an article (from Entertainment weekly) which I pasted at the bottom of my previous post. -- ah wait, I have a browser window open with that post, and I see that I've already
Backed up? This is an example of where you misuse a source. The article discusses seat fillers for live broadcasts in which people at times leave their seats and a filler will occupy the seat as to not show empty spaces. This is done at the Oscars. Here are some of the quotations:
"when a gargantuan lineup of Britney Spears, Metallica, Beyoncé and 50 Cent can't keep a packed house fully populated for the duration of a televised show, organizers turn to the only surefire solution: seat fillers."
"After applying months in advance for a seat-filler position through the Seatfiller.com site, which serves to staff the VMAs and events like the Grammys and the VH1/Vogue Fashion Awards, candidates are notified of their acceptance just a few days before the show."
No where does it mention non-televised concerts nor does it mention Madonna using seat fillers for every show on her tour. I find it amusing that some of your little anti followers can't distinguish their own thoughts but agree with everything that's said. It's the same thing that annoys me about some Madonna fans. Again no disrespect towards you, I was merely unimpressed with this "speculation." :snore:
Quote:Madonna can sell all 100 tickets, but if there's only 5 or 6 people that actually show up...
Here's a photo I took of her last show in Oakland
http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v59 ... age209.gif
Actually I think you might be able to pull those satistics. Most arenas scan the bar codes on the tickets. You could e-mail the arena and ask for the leading and lagging scan indicators. They might be able to provide those numbers for you. Looks like you have a deployment activity this summer while Madonna is on tour.
(5/2/04 7:09 am)
Ravenmaize, I haven't read your other posts yet.
I did find one of the several sources I came across that were saying that the Reinvention Tour could be her last tour (due to it being thought of as a "greatest hits tour"). I got the idea that this could be Madonna's last tour from sites like this (Ticket Vision's Madonna Section):
More Tour Info (Madonnapolis.com)
Entertainment Tonight is claiming that Madonna will shoot a sequel to her 1991 documentary Truth or Dare. If its a modern day version of the movie, it will concentrate on her present day life and her new tour. Possibility that Guy will be doing this documentary.
As noted before, word out is that this tour is going to be the greatest hits tour and could very well be Madonna's final tour. Keep in mind, other rumors are saying she will do a lot of oldies, plus American Life.
The tour dates and venues is expected to be announced by the end of March.
And later, they added this, though this was not there when I first looked at their info, if I'm recalling correctly:
3am: So that may not really be a greatest hits tour. Just stating what we hear.
(5/2/04 2:30 pm)
pfft. I don't think so, making you haterz sick as parrots knowing she can sell out a tour in 10 mins I'm sure....LOL!
(5/8/04 5:17 am)
Madonna concert ticket sales etc / Sept 2001 Figures
Source for first statement: Trip Reservations
The [MGM Grand Garden] Arena offers comfortable seating for as many as 17,157 with excellent sightlines and state-of-the-art acoustics, lighting and sound.
Source for second statement: Las Vegas Review Journal
Monday, September 03, 2001 Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal
REVIEW: FOUR-ACT JOURNEY: Madonna concert love-hate affair
Where: MGM Grand Garden Arena
She curses her 15,000 fans, screaming "(Expletive) off, (plural version of 12-letter expletive)!" (Hate her.)
15,000 is less than 17,157 so that Madonna did not pack 'em in at her MGM Grand Arena concert in 2001. Even if she sold 17,157 tickets to that show, only 15,000 people bothered to attend.
Here's another example:
....In 1985, she [Madonna] played at arenas and amphitheaters, but by 1987, Madonna graduated to stadiums.
Actually, that commencement may have been a little premature. While shows sold well, Madonna lacked the power to fill all of the seats at all of the shows, and some concerts - such as the Washington DC performance I attended - featured quite a few empty stools.
This was Madonnas first and last stadium-exclusive tour; as documented during the Girlie Show DVD, she would indeed continue to play some huge venues overseas - at least until the Drowned World tour, which offers only indoor shows - but she hasnt performed at a US stadium since 1987.
Source: Madonna: Ciao Italia: Live From Italy (1988) Reviewed by Colin Jacobson
I'm frankly not interested in tracking down other examples, as it's tedious. My friend never got back with me on the NY show figures/sources.
Speculating that Madonna has primarily sold tickets but not individuals coming to the show is ridiculous.
I'm not sure how it's a goofy point. Have you seen the posts I've done about her ticket sales in the "Blow Chunks" forum? Apparently, many of the tickets that were sold are showing up in places such as e-bay and a Madonna ticket site service.
So initially, some Madonna concert tickets sold, and some of them are not going to be used; I doubt every single one is going to be snapped up (re-sold).
It's like telling me that Madonna's Like A Virgin record sold 10 million copies in 1985 but people who bought a copy never ripped the wrapping off and actually listened to it.
How impressive is a sold out tour (i.e. # tickets sold) if there's only one person in the audience (low attendance, # empty chairs)?
Here is one web page that measures performances (and yes, it includes a Madonna concert as well as concerts put on by "The Police," U2, etc) in terms of attendance and not ticket sales (so I'm not the only one who does this):
(PDF Format) CONCERT / SPECIAL EVENT ATTENDANCES AT THE M.C.G.
(HTML Format) / CONCERT / SPECIAL EVENT ATTENDANCES AT THE M.C.G.
Another example where attendance is listed separate from ticket sales:
Similarly, Irish rock group U2's "Elevation Tour" sold out in one hour and set the venue's all-time attendance record of 20,596.
Source: PHILIPS ARENA CELEBRATES 2001 - A YEAR OF SUCCESSES
Consider the example of the recent Britney Spears tour. Some of the parents in the audience shielded their kids' eyes, got up, and walked out mid-concert.
You can certainly count their tickets in the "ticket sales" figures and make some argument that it shows how great Spears is -- but these same "fans" who paid for tickets didn't want to be there and watch the Spears concert.
For a company to predominately purchase tickets to re-sell or give away
Sometimes companies do this for promotional purposes. They will buy up their own tickets so that they can use them in contests, or to give to special VIP type guests.
Example (and it's by a Madonna fan, imagine that):
MGM has this very unfortunate rule of giving the front sections seats [of a Madonna concert] out only to high rollers and VIP guests of the casinos.
This bad policy left both night's front sections either half empty or not with real Madonna fans. At one point she actually yelled at the people to "Wake the f*ck up!" and she sat down and told the people if they didn't stand up, neither was she!
[Source: Barney's Madonna Summer]
Also, I wouldn't be as willing as you to underestimate the nonsense companies / corporations pull to save face.
would result in such a financial loss that it would make no sense to even tour, regardless if part of the objective was to convey popularity.
The tickets have already been sold, so someone somewhere is making a profit at least somewhat. As I said, one problem seems to be that the people who *originally* bought them are getting rid of them.
Since Madonna is greedy, this argument is dismissed.
Yes, yes she is greedy.
However, the companies that are involved with her sometimes suck up some of the financial losses and not her personally -- I don't think her $300 million fortune is going to be drained if the ticket company and/or record company play weird marketing games with her concert tickets -- if they are playing games (intentionally inflating ticket sales etc), Madonna is no doubt going along with it, and it meets with her approval, so I'd view her as being partly responsible.
For example, one complaint that Madonna's lawyers have (and I've no idea if it's true or not) is that Warner Bros (her record company) did not shell out any of their own money (or not enough) to pay for advertising for her American Life record and what all.
Backed up? This is an example of where you misuse a source.
...No where does it mention non-televised concerts nor does it mention Madonna using seat fillers for every show on her tour.
I think you missed the reason for my inclusion of the (seat filling) article in the "Madonna Blows Chunks" forum. I did not claim in the post with the article that it out and out proved my point about her concert ticket sales.
As for parts of an article I posted in this thread (I think it was from E! Online) I was interested in the comments about aging audiences and the like, e.g., "but older artists with proven boomer appeal (like first-quarter MVPs Bette Midler and Rod Stewart) are the ones who really make the touring biz go 'round. In fact, 14 of the top 25 touring acts last year were over 40 - just like their core audience..."
One earlier point I had made in some post is that her audience is getting older and smaller. You're just not going to see lots of 14 year olds dying to see a Madonna concert. Most of them are going to see Spears.
As for the seat filler article. You're being too nit picky, wanting a tit for tat analogy. I believe that the seat filler article demonstrates that the entertainment industy and some performers are not above lying, exaggerating or stretching the truth to make themselves look more popular than they are. It's not unheard of to pull the wool over the public's eyes; that was the gist of it.
Some of Madonna's concerts have been televised, by the way. I caught one on HBO in the early 1990s. I think one of her recent ones was also on HBO again (Drowned World Tour?) and/or I've heard the the new one may also appear on cable in the coming months.
Here's one such example of using questionable, weird, cheesy, irresponsible marketing measures to push a record / product:
Santa Rita Principal Could Be On The Hot Seat]http://www.obligation.org/Channel%20One ... arita.html]Santa Rita Principal Could Be On The Hot Seat
April 30, 2002 - Santa Rita Principal Could Be On The Hot Seat
Madonna owns a recording company, Maverick Records, and they are an advertiser on Channel One News. C1 partnered with Maverick to get one of their new artists some publicity to help her new CD. The plan was simple: find a principal that would agree to host a concert for Maverick's Michelle Branch and allow Channel One to film it for promotional purposes.
But what principal would allow their school to be used in such a way? Well now we know the name of one principal that doesn't see a problem with wasting school time and turning over a public building to a private company to promote their product. The name is Abel Morado, principal of Santa Rita High School in Tucsan, Arizona.
Here is the letter he sent out to parents and published on the school's web site...
Quote:I find it amusing that some of your little anti followers can't distinguish their own thoughts but agree with everything that's said.
Er, huh? You're saying they point blank agree with every anti article I post? Or that they always agree with everything I write? Or what?
And where did that come from? I assume you're referring to the "seat filler" article (since your comment comes below the ones about the seat filler article)?
For one thing, no anti-M's posted squat under the article about the seat fillers - and we sometimes do not see eye to eye on all issues (but we've been very kind and polite when disagreeing with one another). The fact that we try to find common ground with one another should not be taken to mean that we're automatons.
You're more likely to see "Borg Think" from Madonna fans; that has been my experience. Pull the string in the back: "Madonna is the Queen! Madonna has been famous for 20 years! Madonna was a feminist role model who taught me it's okay to have sex at 14 years of age and be a welfare mom with ten kids by the time I'm 24. I'm so sexually liberated, not repressed, wheeee!"
It's very hard finding the sort of info I need about her sales figures and stuff.
Should Madonna sell one billion tickets, and should all one billion people show up to every concert, as I said, it just sends an unfortunate signal we may not have moved as far away form uncritical Madonna Ciccione adulation that was everywhere during the mid 1980s to '90s as I had thought or hoped.
BTW - Ask me how many Madonna tickets I've bought. Ask, ask, I'm dying!
I came across this somewhat related tid bit (deals with Madonna financial stuff):
While Warner is not dismissing Madonnas stature -- she is preparing for a world tour that starts in late May, and a six-night stand at Madison Square Garden in June is sold out -- she is not, at 45, the sales powerhouse she once was.
American Life has sold a relatively meager 634,000 copies in the United States. Her previous two albums each sold three million to four million copies. But her vintage releases have done much better: Like a Virgin (1984) sold 10 million, and True Blue (1986) 7 million.
Source: ABS - CBN News
(5/8/04 5:23 am)
WSJ Article Re Sales / & *Why* Madonna is Touring
We can argue about Madonna ticket sales, but another topic to consider is *why* she's going on tour: because
(1) her American Life CD tanked badly and she's trying to promote it some more
(2) she probably needs the money to get out of her Warner Bros/Maverick fiasco.
She ain't touring and singing her oldies (which she has claimed in previous interviews to hate) because she wants to per se (not in the sense of pleasing fans or for artistic expression) but because she needs the money.
Her ego may play a part too: "Oooh lookie how the press still hypes me!"
Excerpts from May 7, 2004 Wall Street Journal article about the rising costs of rock / pop concert tickets:
The music business is banking on such deep-pocketed fans. With recorded-music sales down, the megatour is one of the industry's few remaining bright spots, and these shows' best seats are only getting more expensive: Back in 1990, the priciest tickets to Madonna's "Blonde Ambition" tour retailed for $30; the singer's top prices hit $250 in 2001 and $300 this year. Driven by higher prices, rock-concert revenue across the U.S. grew 19% last year to $2.5 billion, according to Pollstar.
But at the same time, broader concert attendance has been in a four-year slide: Though the biggest shows by the likes of Prince and Eric Clapton typically sell out, the average number of fans at U.S. rock concerts as a whole fell to 3,895 last year, down 8% from 2002, based on venues reporting to music trade magazine Billboard.
... For established artists, a top-dollar tour is one of the best ways to boost a retirement account. The '70s stalwarts The Eagles, whose 2003 compilation album went platinum, stand to match the album's revenue with just a handful of summer concerts. "The Eagles' 'Very Best Of' has sold about 1.2 million copies," says band manager Irving Azoff. "That's about a week's worth of dates."
Perhaps the biggest force behind live rock's rising cost is the widespread consolidation of the companies that promote concerts, including industry giant Clear Channel Entertainment, that started in the late '90s. Big promoters have helped to boost prices by offering artists higher fees at their national networks of venues, compelling smaller competitors to pay more as well to book desirable acts. Promoters generally pass 85% to 90% of the ticket price to the artist and keep the rest, plus parking and other concessions. Ticket sellers such as Ticketmaster make their money from additional service fees.
...The last time Madonna hit the concert circuit in 2001, she was criticized in reviews and fan Web sites for neglecting to play her old hits. (The DVD for the tour includes some less well-known songs, but not classics like "Borderline" or "Like a Virgin.")
So when this year's dates were announced, her manager, Caresse Henry, said Madonna "can't wait to recreate her songs from the earliest days of her career" until the present. [Bull crap. Madonna has been quite vocal of her distaste of performing her oldies.] The tour quickly sold out shows from Las Vegas to London. Prince, too, is enticing fans with promises to play more oldies...
Of course, fans can pay even more than face value -- especially if they don't get their tickets early enough. Seats for sold-out shows are often available at a mark-up from ticket brokers, with floor seats to Madonna's Los Angeles shows gonig for as much as $4,000 on TicketBroker.com... (Reselling tickets is illegal in some states, including New York.)
(5/8/04 8:44 pm)
If Streisand and others do these things, what makes you all think Madonna does not and has not? (Actually, Madonna already did the 'counting records shipped as being albums sold' routine)
# My Name is... the TicketMaster (Part 2) (1/00)
The MGM Grand has announced that Barbra Streisand's New Year's Eve Concert grossed $14.7 million. Once confirmed, this amount will make Streisand's Millennium Concert (12/31/99) the top grossing single concert in history (previous record holders are the Three Tenors with their 7/20/96 concert, which grossed $13.4 million.)
The MGM Grand also claims that all 12,477 tickets were sold. However, having attended this concert (see the Millennium Madness Supplemental Page), I can assure you all that there were empty seats (and I am not talking about a handful).
The biggest mystery is the Concert which took place on 1/1/00. This concert was seriously undersold, and many tickets were given away to hotel patrons.
However, no one is coughing up any statistics.
Finally, it has been reported that Streisand made $15 million for one or both concerts. I honestly don't see how the hotel made any money. Which may explain why there was no air conditioning (they couldn't afford it...).
mpty Seats at Both Millenium Concerts (1/00)
As predicted only by the Irreverent Guide, Barbra faced empty seats on both December 31, 1999 and January 1, 2000.
I was present on December 31 and witnessed empty $2500, $1500 and $750 seats, though Streisand's publicist had reported a "virtual sellout". I also noted a number of scalpers unable to sell tickets -- even at bargain basement prices.
All sources have confirmed that January 1 was far from a sellout, but no one will provide exact figures. Estimates of 4000 empty seats have been suggested.
Though I was the only site to predict the empty seats (click here for 1999 News Story), I was incorrect to note that this was the first time Barbra played to less than sell-out crowds. It also happened in 1970, when she played at another hotel in ... Las Vegas. For a full report and review on the Millennium Concert, please see the Millennium Madness Supplemental Page.
As it turns out, the RIAA does not track actual sales to consumers. Instead, it is more interested in copies that go from Columbia to the record stores. So, what RIAA is really saying is that at least a million units have been shipped to record stores.
In the meantime, most of the million units are still at the stores waiting for buyers. Which begs the question, isn't it time for the RIAA to change its certification process? Obviously, it is meaningless when a cd can flop commercially and still carry a platinum certificate. And bogus. Simply Bogus.
The Irreverent Guide to Barbra Streisand
(5/9/04 3:11 pm)
You are a trip Flea Dip. I'm bored with the discussion because quite frankly, I can't understand what your main points are in you posts because they are all over the place and your information presented is misleading.
15,000 is less than 17,157 so that Madonna did not pack 'em in at her MGM Grand Arena concert in 2001. Even if she sold 17,157 tickets to that show, only 15,000 people bothered to attend.
No where did the article mentioned how many tickets were reported as sold. Secondly, you are making an assumption here that all of the seats behind the stage were sold. 2000 seats behind and on the side of the stage is pretty accurate. The same would double at Madison Square Garden because it's a larger arena.
Again, rather than using sources that would support what you want to see, consider using Boxscores from Billboard. Billboard magazine is reputable, measurable and unbiased. You used Billboard's figures to report on Madonna's poor record sales yet you ignore them for her concert sales. Interesting. That's why I liked your posts about the American Life project. You drew on specific interviews, Billboard statistics and content that's measureable. For this point I see you desperately drawing and misleading on anything you can to make a case against Madonna.
Yes I do believe most if not all of your anti-M fans are mindless. When I see some of them attacking Madonna's kids by calling them "sluts" and "whores" because they have no other way of cultivating a strong argument, that is mindless. When they agree with quotes from sources that obviously attack Madonna because of their distaste for her rather than because it's a solid thought, that is mindless. I detest George W. Bush and living in San Francisco there are tons of anti-Bush propaganda. However, I am not going to use articles to develop my thoughts just because some Green Party fanatics hate Bush. I'm going to base my opinions on facts rather than emotion, which is what many fans (both anti and pro of Madonna) do. Hope this clarified your question Thanks for indulging me on the discussion of ticket sales. I've become disinterested on this topic because I see no solid cases against it.
(5/24/04 5:05 am)
Ananova.com article: Madonna's LA venue Not sold out
From ananova.com: Madonna's Re-Invention Tour [Not selling out]
At least one LA ticket broker is already offering a two-for-one deal on Madonna concert tickets, and seats were still available on all of her first three nights. Reports of a terrorist threat on her family on the eve of the first show are also hardly designed to ease her nerves.
Following the less than stellar sales of her latest CD, critics say the pressure is on Madonna to deliver.
Madonna desperately seeking bums on seats
24/05/2004 - 10:07:35 So, is Madonna going to prove all her critics wrong once again? Thats certainly the question on the lips of the music industry folks who will be filing into The Forum in Los Angeles this week to see if her Re-Invention Tour can live up to its name.
The jury is out. At least one LA ticket broker is offering a two-for-one deal on Madonna concert tickets, and seats were still available on all of her first three nights.
The Forum is hardly intimate, but its nothing like the football stadiums Madonna has filled to capacity in years gone by ...
Following on the heels of less than stellar sales of her latest CD, even Madonna must be feeling the pressure...
(6/1/04 1:12 pm)
NYDailyNews: M's Drawing Power Not Strong in Some Areas
From NY Daily News:
In fact, Madonna could have packed Giants Stadium for several nights. But her drawing power isnt as strong in some other cities, so her show had to be scaled for 20,000-seaters rather than the 50,000-seat jumbo types.
Source: New York Daily News
Same material can be viewed here
(6/3/04 8:41 pm)
Same fans showing up at different M concerts
The following comes from a Madonna fan site, madonnalicious.com:
Tales from the tour
Posted: 03 June 2004
madonnalicious brings you the inside gossip from last night's Anaheim show:
...It has been noted by the crew that many of the same faces (fans) show up at each show.
Even if some of her shows are sold out, turns out that the same people are the ones attending the concerts held at different locations. Not very impressive.
(6/7/04 6:16 am)
M fan says M concert at Anaheim CA not sold out
Because magracnod (who has since been banned, I think) doesn't get it, let me explain this again. Her tours have not been "selling out."
Secondly, # of tickets sold does not = people sitting in every available seat. And read this, from a Madonna fan:
... As for the show itself. From where I was sitting, it's safe to say that this show was NOT a sellout. I'd say she came within 500 seats of selling out as there were patches of empty seats along the top of the arena. ...
madonnalicious.com fan_reviews section / Anaheim CA
(6/16/04 3:49 am)
New York Post: Madonna's Tour is Bombing]http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/23122.htm]New York Post: Madonna's Tour is Bombing
June 16, 2004 -- Maybe Madonna's "Re-Invention Tour" needs a little retooling.
Thousands of tickets are still available for the Material Mom's six-night stand at Madison Square Garden that begins tonight many at cut-rate prices.
Late yesterday, Ticketmaster, the official retail outlet for Madonna concert tickets, had seats in all price ranges ($50 to $300) for all six nights.
And some ticket brokers who usually offer seats at a premium were desperately trying to clear their bloated inventories with discounts of up to 30 percent off face value.
"We're losing money on these tickets," said one broker offering deep discounts. "The bottom line is she's doing too many shows."
Besides the six MSG shows, the 45-year-old musical artist has two shows slated for Continental Airlines Arena across the Hudson in New Jersey next month as part of her 19-city world tour.
"Tickets are selling well, but not as well as anticipated," said Mi chael Issac, president of broker Preferred Ticket.com. "Three years ago was a much stronger tour."
... A broker at greattickets.com said the phone was ringing off the hook, but not for Madonna for the NBA's Detroit Pistons, who are close to winning the league championship series from the Los Angeles Lakers.
"Her public opinion might be shifting," said the broker, who did not want to be identified.
... The show was initially reported sold out, but last week hundreds of tickets were released as more seats became available after the stage was set up.
... Meanwhile cable channel Trio TV is having a little fun at Madonna's expense, hosting three Madonna silver-screen bombs at the Loews Theater on 34th Street.