MARTIN CHARNIN

Julie Stevens
Julie Stevens

May 6th, 2008, 6:16 am #41

How can producers fire a cast member without consulting with the director and creator? I know producers have a lot of power but I can't imagine Martin would be dumb enough to sign away his right to having input on casting and firing.

Julie, any insight to the role of the producers (in general)?
I wasn't there, so I don't know, but it' possible that the producers felt strongly about replacing Joanna and, if Martin didn't agree, he might have stayed out of the firing. Or, they could have all agreed and it was just easier to send a fax than to see the disappointed look on a little girl's face. We'll never know.

Julie
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Julie Smith
Julie Smith

May 6th, 2008, 11:10 am #42

My $0.02

I agree with most of what Maryanne has said (in all her posts). I don't necessarily agree with her delivery. But those of you who are offended, please look past her delivery and try to see her opinions.

I don't see Maryanne as having a chip on her shoulder. I had to laugh at that because there is one troll-like poster who likes to accuse me of that whenever I disagree with someone
I saw Maryanne's original post as passionate and sometimes, that can be mistaken for arrogance.

For arguments' sake, IF Joanna and Kristin are 'screwed up', there is no way anyone could attribute that solely to their Annie experience. There are too many variables to consider e.g. genetics, home life, environment, social pressures, financial pressure, nature vs. nurture...you get the point.

I do agree, however, that their firings probably impacted them greatly and caused a lot of pain. And sometimes, when we don't process that grief and let it go, it can crop up 30-something years later when we discuss it. That is, it can easily make us cry. But it doesn't mean we are 'screwed up'.

I have long been uncomfortable with how Martin comes across during auditions (going back to Allison Smith's audition when I was about 14 and saw it on television). I have met many other Annie fans since my pre-teen/young teen years who felt the same.

I then met some people who had first-hand experiences with Martin and auditions/rehearsals and told me stories that made me cringe. That is, his behavior was sometimes very unprofessional. That only supported MY opinion of him.

Now, that doesn't mean hundreds of other girls/families also had negative experiences with Martin. But remember, just because your family had positive memories and experiencs, doesn't mean what others say is false.
Both can be true and it doesn't do anyone any good to argue that the other is wrong.

Martin certainly gave us all a wonderful musical and great childhood memories. The timing of Annie's original run helped it's success.
But I'll say that I agree with Maryanne in that the show seemed to decline as time went on. For me, it started with Annie20th. But there were a couple of productions 'back in the day' (late 70s/early 80s) that seemed dead compared to the Bway and other touring productions.

By the time Annie20th/30th came around, it seemed the charm had been lost. Maybe it's the time we live in, maybe because it's been around so long and performed so often, maybe 'the powers that be' only cared about making a buck and not the integrity of the show, or maybe you can never recreate the chemistry of an original cast...so many factors affect the success of a show.

So, while you may disagree with Maryanne's style of communicating, she made many valid points about the success/failure of this show and the (sometimes) unprofessionalism of the creative team toward the children in the show.

She didn't say anything different than what was portrayed in Life After Tomorrow. In fact, what Maryanne said was tame compared to the horror stories told in LAT.

And that is just my $0.85 <----inflation
Hey K,
I do agree with you here that is is the delivery that is offensive. All caps - screaming things at and about people - you know what I mean. Though my post was in the string about Martin, Kristin, and Joanna, the "chip on the shoulder" comment has more behind it than just that post. She also pokes fun at Amanda Balon's pageant days and eludes to Amanda's performances on her website. Then there's the string of Broadway v. Touring Annie's ...

I'm not saying everyone has to be over-the-top super-sweet all the time, but being in attack mode on three strings on one page is extreme and rather sad. I just didn't get from those posts that she was trying to have a conversation about these topics or even trying to just stir things up as much as she was trying to attack others to make herself feel better.

I hope I'm wrong. I just hate to see people made fun of or called names when they're not here to defend themselves.

With inflation, we're up to about $1.25.
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K-the-O ;-)
K-the-O ;-)

May 6th, 2008, 12:46 pm #43

I didn't see her posts about Amanda. I read her first post and two others. I must have missed it so I can't comment until I see it.

But I still stand by my view and overall, agree with her thoughts re: Annie and Martin Just not the delivery

And I think her message (behind the shouting) is valid and provides an interesting discussion on show business and children. We've had those discussions many times on this forum and, imo, is entirely appropriate


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K-the-O ;-)
K-the-O ;-)

May 6th, 2008, 12:47 pm #44

Miss Dyslexic didn't explain herself correctly yet once again. I have such a difficult time writing which is why I hardly ever participate in topics like this.

She stated: "Lets just admit it in his case. not a wonderful person, not a strong man, no an empathetic or kind man Ok?"

And I'm saying I can't admit that because I don't know him.

I did not say however, that he is the opposite of those things either. I didn't say that he is a wonderful person, that he is a strong man and an empathetic and kind man...I just said I can't come to the same conclusion. I don't have one because I don't know him and have never even met him.
Well, Miss dyslexic here misunderstood your post. Forgive me
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maryanne
maryanne

May 6th, 2008, 2:07 pm #45

Maryanne,
The purpose of this website is to celebrate the women who participated in the original run - not to degrade them or call them names. Julie's film (which I dare say I watched long before you ever did, so thanks for telling me to "watch the film") was never meant to give you a forum to call people "messed up," or "sadistic" or "creepy." Is the chip you're carrying on your shoulder because you felt you could have been a cast member but never got to audition or because you did audition and got cut?

Perhaps your posts on this matter are better suited for the General Discussion forum on the Life After Tomorrow website.
No Julie, I did not feel i should have been a "cast member". i am not and never have been in "show business". I got my degree at Harvard law and work in the public sector in DC. So you got that wrong. Do you have triple digit IQ? because if you did you'd realize that it is obvious that the way the firing of those two women was handled has affected them, not "ruined" them but affected them. It is documented on sceen and both girls have admitted it. I was hardly "degrading" women. Yes, I think they way it was handled was wrong, anyone with half a brain and a heart would agree. "I dare say" you're like one of those people who doesn't have any attention from anywhere so has to have her 5 seconds in the sun by writing self rigtheous idioicies on some web site.. there are a million just like you. mediocrity.
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maryanne
maryanne

May 6th, 2008, 2:11 pm #46

First of all it was not Martin's choice to fire Joanna. Martin was out of town when the producers made the choice without Martin even knowing until it was already done. Not to mention Joanna is in no way screwed up because of Martin.
Oh PLEASE!!
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Julie Smith
Julie Smith

May 6th, 2008, 2:12 pm #47

No Julie, I did not feel i should have been a "cast member". i am not and never have been in "show business". I got my degree at Harvard law and work in the public sector in DC. So you got that wrong. Do you have triple digit IQ? because if you did you'd realize that it is obvious that the way the firing of those two women was handled has affected them, not "ruined" them but affected them. It is documented on sceen and both girls have admitted it. I was hardly "degrading" women. Yes, I think they way it was handled was wrong, anyone with half a brain and a heart would agree. "I dare say" you're like one of those people who doesn't have any attention from anywhere so has to have her 5 seconds in the sun by writing self rigtheous idioicies on some web site.. there are a million just like you. mediocrity.
Thanks for making my point. I'm finished with this.
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ME
ME

August 14th, 2008, 4:43 pm #48

Oh PLEASE!!
as per request(s) to respond - - - - -

Martin DID NOT KNOW until after Joanna was fired
- THE PRODUCERS had the ultimate control!

The referenced fax was sent very late in the evening via Joanna's Agent and Manager. The fax firing Joanna was signed by the producers ONLY!

How do I know? I, unfortunately, was the person to READ A COPY OF THE FAX to Martin when he called the following morning asking what happened! He was clearly taken back and quite sad. So much so that he asked it to be read back several times.

The (Joanna/firing) situation started with events sparked by and controlled by the Producers on the weekend AFTER Martin had left town!

PLEASE, do not blame Martin! I know it seems strange and almost impossible to consider, however, Martin had no say or control with the situation. Martin is a wonderful person and the last thing he would ever do is hurt a child!

This is the honest truth.

ME
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asstipcw5jhb
asstipcw5jhb

July 25th, 2016, 3:21 pm #49

I wasn't there, so I don't know, but it' possible that the producers felt strongly about replacing Joanna and, if Martin didn't agree, he might have stayed out of the firing. Or, they could have all agreed and it was just easier to send a fax than to see the disappointed look on a little girl's face. We'll never know.

Julie
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