MARTIN CHARNIN

Julie Smith
Julie Smith

May 5th, 2008, 1:01 pm #31

WATCH THE FILM. SHE WILL NEVER COMPLETELY GET OVER BEING FIRED LIKE THAT. Strong person, messed up person, whatever,,,Do you think her response to something that happened 30 year ago is warranted in this case?
Maryanne,
The purpose of this website is to celebrate the women who participated in the original run - not to degrade them or call them names. Julie's film (which I dare say I watched long before you ever did, so thanks for telling me to "watch the film") was never meant to give you a forum to call people "messed up," or "sadistic" or "creepy." Is the chip you're carrying on your shoulder because you felt you could have been a cast member but never got to audition or because you did audition and got cut?

Perhaps your posts on this matter are better suited for the General Discussion forum on the Life After Tomorrow website.
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Anon
Anon

May 5th, 2008, 6:53 pm #32

Just wacthed Julie's film, one thing I cannot let slide.

Martin Charnin.

He certainley takes enormous personal pleasure in lording over every casting session. He coud have someone pre screen for him, but he wants to be right there on the front lines grabbing little girl's shoulder, "I WANT YOU!" scorning and dismissing others, they can skiddatle OR "WE HAVE A VERY TOUGH DECISION AND WE HAVE NOT MADE IT [YET...SOOO...DONT LOSE ANY SLEEP!" sarcastic, arrogant sob!

He's sadistic and creepy. He loves plopping those lucky little waifs on his knees and giving then the good news. But delivering the bad? He is nowhere to be found! Poor pretty Kristin Vigard. He could not facce it. A stagehand was elected to deliver the news. Joanna, obviiously out of her league but Martin' choice afterall, had to avoid a face to face with the little girl he picked, so sent this shy little 12 year old a FAX IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT saying shehas been fired!! He can't sac up and have an honest conversation with a 10 yeat old that HE HAS HIRED. Unbelievable! it this very reason that kristen and joana are so screwed up today. shame on him. shame on him.
First of all it was not Martin's choice to fire Joanna. Martin was out of town when the producers made the choice without Martin even knowing until it was already done. Not to mention Joanna is in no way screwed up because of Martin.
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Carla
Carla

May 5th, 2008, 7:01 pm #33

You're right, I am sorry i sounded harsh. i got a very strong reaction from the documentary and from both the girl's stories who had gotten the boot in such a sneaky and indirect manner. I do feel strongly that if Martin had spoken directly to these girls, he would have made the transition for them so much easier. They liked and respected him. And after all, it WAS his mistake. Firing a child cannot be easy but is so much harder for the child than for the firer. If I were him I would have done anything to help make it easier for those little girls. Does anyone disagree?
I was there during the firing of Joanna and Martin had nothing to do with the firing ,He wanted to keep Joanna and the firing was done when Martin was not even around. We are still good friends with Stella and Joanna and in no way is Joanna screwd up.You really should find out the facts before you say things that are not true.I think thts really mean to talk bad about someone that you have no idea about since you weren't there threw the whole ordeal.
Carla
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Anon
Anon

May 5th, 2008, 7:03 pm #34

First of all it was not Martin's choice to fire Joanna. Martin was out of town when the producers made the choice without Martin even knowing until it was already done. Not to mention Joanna is in no way screwed up because of Martin.
The message was for MaryAnn sorry I wrote Joann.
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K-the-O ;-)
K-the-O ;-)

May 6th, 2008, 2:29 am #35

Since I do not know the man, and have never even met him, I can't come to the same conclusion as you have.

But you both are obviously entitled to your opinions.
Noel,
Just playing devil's advocate here

If you never met the man how can you say you disagree with Maryanne? Perhaps Martin is all those things? If you've never met him, you wouldn't know whether he is insensitive, etc. or not.

I'm just sayin'
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K-the-O ;-)
K-the-O ;-)

May 6th, 2008, 2:31 am #36

First of all it was not Martin's choice to fire Joanna. Martin was out of town when the producers made the choice without Martin even knowing until it was already done. Not to mention Joanna is in no way screwed up because of Martin.
How can producers fire a cast member without consulting with the director and creator? I know producers have a lot of power but I can't imagine Martin would be dumb enough to sign away his right to having input on casting and firing.

Julie, any insight to the role of the producers (in general)?
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Lara
Lara

May 6th, 2008, 2:34 am #37

that's not true he knew...
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K-the-O ;-)
K-the-O ;-)

May 6th, 2008, 2:50 am #38

Just wacthed Julie's film, one thing I cannot let slide.

Martin Charnin.

He certainley takes enormous personal pleasure in lording over every casting session. He coud have someone pre screen for him, but he wants to be right there on the front lines grabbing little girl's shoulder, "I WANT YOU!" scorning and dismissing others, they can skiddatle OR "WE HAVE A VERY TOUGH DECISION AND WE HAVE NOT MADE IT [YET...SOOO...DONT LOSE ANY SLEEP!" sarcastic, arrogant sob!

He's sadistic and creepy. He loves plopping those lucky little waifs on his knees and giving then the good news. But delivering the bad? He is nowhere to be found! Poor pretty Kristin Vigard. He could not facce it. A stagehand was elected to deliver the news. Joanna, obviiously out of her league but Martin' choice afterall, had to avoid a face to face with the little girl he picked, so sent this shy little 12 year old a FAX IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT saying shehas been fired!! He can't sac up and have an honest conversation with a 10 yeat old that HE HAS HIRED. Unbelievable! it this very reason that kristen and joana are so screwed up today. shame on him. shame on him.
My $0.02

I agree with most of what Maryanne has said (in all her posts). I don't necessarily agree with her delivery. But those of you who are offended, please look past her delivery and try to see her opinions.

I don't see Maryanne as having a chip on her shoulder. I had to laugh at that because there is one troll-like poster who likes to accuse me of that whenever I disagree with someone
I saw Maryanne's original post as passionate and sometimes, that can be mistaken for arrogance.

For arguments' sake, IF Joanna and Kristin are 'screwed up', there is no way anyone could attribute that solely to their Annie experience. There are too many variables to consider e.g. genetics, home life, environment, social pressures, financial pressure, nature vs. nurture...you get the point.

I do agree, however, that their firings probably impacted them greatly and caused a lot of pain. And sometimes, when we don't process that grief and let it go, it can crop up 30-something years later when we discuss it. That is, it can easily make us cry. But it doesn't mean we are 'screwed up'.

I have long been uncomfortable with how Martin comes across during auditions (going back to Allison Smith's audition when I was about 14 and saw it on television). I have met many other Annie fans since my pre-teen/young teen years who felt the same.

I then met some people who had first-hand experiences with Martin and auditions/rehearsals and told me stories that made me cringe. That is, his behavior was sometimes very unprofessional. That only supported MY opinion of him.

Now, that doesn't mean hundreds of other girls/families also had negative experiences with Martin. But remember, just because your family had positive memories and experiencs, doesn't mean what others say is false.
Both can be true and it doesn't do anyone any good to argue that the other is wrong.

Martin certainly gave us all a wonderful musical and great childhood memories. The timing of Annie's original run helped it's success.
But I'll say that I agree with Maryanne in that the show seemed to decline as time went on. For me, it started with Annie20th. But there were a couple of productions 'back in the day' (late 70s/early 80s) that seemed dead compared to the Bway and other touring productions.

By the time Annie20th/30th came around, it seemed the charm had been lost. Maybe it's the time we live in, maybe because it's been around so long and performed so often, maybe 'the powers that be' only cared about making a buck and not the integrity of the show, or maybe you can never recreate the chemistry of an original cast...so many factors affect the success of a show.

So, while you may disagree with Maryanne's style of communicating, she made many valid points about the success/failure of this show and the (sometimes) unprofessionalism of the creative team toward the children in the show.

She didn't say anything different than what was portrayed in Life After Tomorrow. In fact, what Maryanne said was tame compared to the horror stories told in LAT.

And that is just my $0.85 <----inflation

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K-the-O ;-)
K-the-O ;-)

May 6th, 2008, 2:52 am #39

that's not true he knew...
That is my gut feeling, too. He knew. And I thought someone also told me he knew. That is, someone associated with the show at the time told me. But it was so long ago now I can't say for certain.
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Noel
Noel

May 6th, 2008, 5:12 am #40

Noel,
Just playing devil's advocate here

If you never met the man how can you say you disagree with Maryanne? Perhaps Martin is all those things? If you've never met him, you wouldn't know whether he is insensitive, etc. or not.

I'm just sayin'
Miss Dyslexic didn't explain herself correctly yet once again. I have such a difficult time writing which is why I hardly ever participate in topics like this.

She stated: "Lets just admit it in his case. not a wonderful person, not a strong man, no an empathetic or kind man Ok?"

And I'm saying I can't admit that because I don't know him.

I did not say however, that he is the opposite of those things either. I didn't say that he is a wonderful person, that he is a strong man and an empathetic and kind man...I just said I can't come to the same conclusion. I don't have one because I don't know him and have never even met him.

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