Joined: 9:01 PM - Jul 06, 2012

3:11 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #21

Allo P tigris,

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I hope your not the one that made that 6 to 1 video of gir, because if you are, were going to have some problem's...the real reason my data show's a one sided debate for now is because of fake vid's like the gir, because of jackjacksonj site's an other's that lied, lie's alway's make's the truth surface, ergo why I am here, there's so many faked an lied on account's I will demand the truth to be heard, at-least appreciated by anyone who want's the story on both side's of the same coin, not just there selfish wanting's of there Bia's cat, if so you would have had no problem presenting what I have, but I never seen most of the tiger side present these, why? Bia's plain an simple, I have no problem presenting thing's for the tiger's aid at any momemnt of my choosing or asked upoun but at the moment I will justify the missing, or should I say consealed data of what people like you try to conseal.

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Let's start off with your claw's, now are you going to tell me those lion claw's are adult's? I hope not, that would inply a Jaguar's, leopard's, heck even a puma's are the same size an by the look's of it is bigger than the lion's Huh! I Cant belive you say they were wrong they are mixed as like your's is. But Mine at-least debunk's your's, for a lion's is shown way bigger size parality then the lep's, jag's, and puma's so that exploit's your's cant be an adult's for it look's smaller, you catch my drift? Nah you already knew that, you just tryed to conseal it. What's with bringing in 1 animal expert an act as if the whole debate is over? Huh! I can an will bring in people who have a higher reputation, have more year's studying there social pattern's, have more year's with "hand's on "experince, not just observing from a jeep, have credential's of seeing the 2 fight, which has packer seen a lion an tiger fight right in front of his face? Nope, but I'll bring an abundent who has.

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An your paw size's, please your another relying on poor data, a track? XD A tiger or lion can pivet, or be moving fast and the print will be enlarged or smuged to take on a different size, beside's I only belive in size comparing when the tiger and lion are in the same photo, with out anyone messing around with the enlarge button. So no number's, because if your going to bring in number's it would be astrinomicaly B.S to not have the age's of the tiger an lion at same age, same size, same diet's, same everything shown with your presenting's or else how the hell would I know if your noot comparing a cub to juvi to an adult. lol No! I want them in the same pic an a alibi that they are roughly the same age's, right next to each other neck an neck, because there is a thing such as the distance effect, where If I stand 4 feet in front of Yao ming I can look taller then him at only being 6 feet tall, or I could be at a angle next to a 400 pound fat person an look fatter then him at only 210 pound's by simply postioning the camera at a certain angle or again useing the inlarge button like the crazed fanatic's alway's do even being so idioticly reluctant to show tiger's an drawing a line to a nother pic that was down sized of a liger an saying he's the same size XD I can have the distance effect an even make a 10 pound house cat an draw a line to a seperate pic of a tiger an claim the house kitty is just as big as the tiger's mass...XD

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I dont really know what your getting at, but you should have posted it against where I posted mine, not just track me down an go off topic from the thread's asking's. But check out the thread I made, if you really wanna battle in who has more expert's by bringing in Packer, than Game on that's 1 but that 1 dident even see a fight while I'll flush over 30 an over 50 total in the thread I made in a few minute's, an remember the credability dosent lie in how old the new's paper article is, it rely's on credintial's of the person who say's it, all you'll get from me is people who worked with both, trained both, studyeid both, while the flooding's of opinion's like often used from jackjacksonj site, has either a person who worked with only one or the other, or none at all, which would have the credability of jack! So meet me in my thread, I'll teach you a thing or 2 in covering 1 catagorie at a time.
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4:49 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #22

Prime -- this has been debated to death, for years.. And none of my data is 'poor'.



I am not going to bother replying to your whole thread, as it really has been debated to DEATH. The lion / tiger debate is boring for me now.



And WolverineClaws is the person you are complaining about, not me.



Bold -- What's not fishy?? The fact that his name begins with tiger, yet supports lions (usually multi-accounts and fanatics, similar to 'lionboss')



Also, Packer's response was every lion fan's excuse, and lastly he didn't take any pictures.
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6:28 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #23

P Tigris wrote:Prime -- this has been debated to death, for years.. And none of my data is 'poor'.



I am not going to bother replying to your whole thread, as it really has been debated to DEATH. The lion / tiger debate is boring for me now.



And WolverineClaws is the person you are complaining about, not me.



Bold -- What's not fishy?? The fact that his name begins with tiger, yet supports lions (usually multi-accounts and fanatics, similar to 'lionboss')



Also, Packer's response was every lion fan's excuse, and lastly he didn't take any pictures.
He did not know how to take a screenshot at the time. I doubt he would have lied. He knew Packer`s email, and challenged anyone to ask him themselves for proof. It doesn`t really interest me on how many accounts he had...as i already knew that poster had several accounts. That has nothing to do with Packer`s response to his emails.
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6:35 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #24

the bold champ wrote:
P Tigris wrote:Prime -- this has been debated to death, for years.. And none of my data is 'poor'.



I am not going to bother replying to your whole thread, as it really has been debated to DEATH. The lion / tiger debate is boring for me now.



And WolverineClaws is the person you are complaining about, not me.



Bold -- What's not fishy?? The fact that his name begins with tiger, yet supports lions (usually multi-accounts and fanatics, similar to 'lionboss')



Also, Packer's response was every lion fan's excuse, and lastly he didn't take any pictures.
He did not know how to take a screenshot at the time. I doubt he would have lied. He knew Packer`s email, and challenged anyone to ask him themselves for proof. It doesn`t really interest me on how many accounts he had...as i already knew that poster had several accounts. That has nothing to do with Packer`s response to his emails.
There's no proof besides his word on the email. Not credible.
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6:37 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #25

P Tigris wrote:
the bold champ wrote:
P Tigris wrote:Prime -- this has been debated to death, for years.. And none of my data is 'poor'.



I am not going to bother replying to your whole thread, as it really has been debated to DEATH. The lion / tiger debate is boring for me now.



And WolverineClaws is the person you are complaining about, not me.



Bold -- What's not fishy?? The fact that his name begins with tiger, yet supports lions (usually multi-accounts and fanatics, similar to 'lionboss')



Also, Packer's response was every lion fan's excuse, and lastly he didn't take any pictures.
He did not know how to take a screenshot at the time. I doubt he would have lied. He knew Packer`s email, and challenged anyone to ask him themselves for proof. It doesn`t really interest me on how many accounts he had...as i already knew that poster had several accounts. That has nothing to do with Packer`s response to his emails.
There's no proof besides his word on the email. Not credible.
Yep.....it is. Packer made similar statements before, and having been around during that time.....i do feel as if it is the real deal. Perhaps it isn`t.....but, of course....we can always ask Packer....
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7:06 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #26

the bold champ wrote:
P Tigris wrote:
the bold champ wrote:He did not know how to take a screenshot at the time. I doubt he would have lied. He knew Packer`s email, and challenged anyone to ask him themselves for proof. It doesn`t really interest me on how many accounts he had...as i already knew that poster had several accounts. That has nothing to do with Packer`s response to his emails.
There's no proof besides his word on the email. Not credible.
Yep.....it is. Packer made similar statements before, and having been around during that time.....i do feel as if it is the real deal. Perhaps it isn`t.....but, of course....we can always ask Packer....
Show me where he said a similar statement to that -- dealing with fighting manners. And email him if you wish.
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7:13 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #27

P Tigris wrote:
the bold champ wrote:
P Tigris wrote:There's no proof besides his word on the email. Not credible.
Yep.....it is. Packer made similar statements before, and having been around during that time.....i do feel as if it is the real deal. Perhaps it isn`t.....but, of course....we can always ask Packer....
Show me where he said a similar statement to that -- dealing with fighting manners. And email him if you wish.
I don`t remember Packer saying anywhere else that lions and tigers fight similarly....but, he did say he had no actual knowledge on the weights of these animals. After all....he has never weighed lions.....only measured chest girth. His argument really wouldn`t be so valid if it wasn`t under the pretext that these animals fought similarly. Because....if you have 2 animals that fight similarly.....the bigger specimen should win, if you do not take into account the role aggression plays in a battle, the mane, agility, ect.
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7:27 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #28

the bold champ wrote:
P Tigris wrote:
the bold champ wrote:Yep.....it is. Packer made similar statements before, and having been around during that time.....i do feel as if it is the real deal. Perhaps it isn`t.....but, of course....we can always ask Packer....
Show me where he said a similar statement to that -- dealing with fighting manners. And email him if you wish.
I don`t remember Packer saying anywhere else that lions and tigers fight similarly....but, he did say he had no actual knowledge on the weights of these animals. After all....he has never weighed lions.....only measured chest girth. His argument really wouldn`t be so valid if it wasn`t under the pretext that these animals fought similarly. Because....if you have 2 animals that fight similarly.....the bigger specimen should win, if you do not take into account the role aggression plays in a battle, the mane, agility, ect.
He never said he had no knowledge on their fighting methods, aggression, mane (studied), aggression (studied), etc...
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7:34 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #29

P Tigris wrote:
the bold champ wrote:
P Tigris wrote:Show me where he said a similar statement to that -- dealing with fighting manners. And email him if you wish.
I don`t remember Packer saying anywhere else that lions and tigers fight similarly....but, he did say he had no actual knowledge on the weights of these animals. After all....he has never weighed lions.....only measured chest girth. His argument really wouldn`t be so valid if it wasn`t under the pretext that these animals fought similarly. Because....if you have 2 animals that fight similarly.....the bigger specimen should win, if you do not take into account the role aggression plays in a battle, the mane, agility, ect.
He never said he had no knowledge on their fighting methods, aggression, mane (studied), aggression (studied), etc...
He knows very little about the habits of the tiger, so how could he make a comparison on their respective fighting abilities? He does not favor either animal in terms of aggression, and the mane plays a role in a fight, of course.
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8:30 PM - Jul 07, 2012 #30

To: P tigris,
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I did say I had the data of Craig pointing out the fundemental property's of the lion's mane that protect's the lion an it's so funny you think that the mane dosent offer any protection, well here they are along with packer's refference stating the mane does offer protection on my source #30, I even email packer yet no responce an it's obvious he goes side to side too becasue he's alway's chaning his mind like the video he claim's the mane offer's no protection to my number 30 source of him then saying it does...
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[Power of the lion’s Mane]
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Source 1.
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/tanza ... _D1602.jpg
Now both males attack, one grappling with her head as the other bites her stomach. She twists away in pain from the stomach bite.
Note the protection offered by the mane on the lion on the left as the female's claws and blows are cushioned by the thick matted fur.
Source 2.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0 ... ym9Ef6w2M4
Indeed there are good scientific data that male lions with long manes are more likely to survive and have fewer injuries.
The Fetal Matrix: Evolution, Development and Disease
By Peter D. Gluckman, Mark Hanson

Source 3.
This tiger was captured in India and went against a lion after being in captivity for only few days. Don't tell me that these few days changed the tiger's behavior in which it could not deliver a fatal neck bite.
It was the Tiger's fight and he knew it. He sprang at the staggering Lion, took a fearful chop on the nose without flinching and set his teeth into the African's hairy throat. They wrestled desperately, and the Lion's heavy mane saved him from suffocation. Great mouthfuls of long coarse hair catching in the Tiger's teeth not only preventing him from getting a death grip, but so interfered with his with his respiration that he had to release the hold, where upon the Lion swatted him with a tremendous uppercut and sent him tumbling twenty feet away.

Source 4.
http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC0 ... lions+mane
The lion's mane, not possessed by the female, is evidently such a weapon of defense; it is a excellent means of protection against the bites which the male lions try to inflict on each other's necks when fighting for the females; consequently those males with the strongest manes have the greatest advantage in the sexual struggle.

The History of Creation, Or, The Development of the Earth and Its Inhabitants by the Action of naterual causes.
By L. Dora Schmitz, Sir E Ray Lankester
Source 5.
“Down sprang Caesar, determined to seize the offensive, but before he could do so, Bobby had battled his way through Caesar's paws, grabbed his mane so stubbornly that he couldn't move. For the next couple of minutes each struggled and strained for an advantage, but Bobby's hold was so tenacious that they only succeeded in twisting a little. With the cameras continuing to grind and getting nothing but a little harmless tug of war… Energy spent, the exhausted Bobby tried to roll away from Caesar, but Caesar's hold now was as firm as Bobby's which had been on his mane. Seeing this turn in affairs, I dashed into the cage. Already Caesar's jaws had crunched Bobby's neck and when I got there Caesar was shaking Bobby's limp, bloody head and throat from side to side. Bobby's eyes were turning starey. He was dead and it was only two minutes since I was keenly sorry that I had done it, but in thinking it over I became convinced that my part had been negligible. The lion is frequently the superior; he doubtless would have been the winner in this case no matter what I had done.”
Source 6.
If so, it is conceivable that a single male lion attacked by a pack of hyenas could reduce injury with the help of its mane. Manes protect males in interaspecific in other species. It may additionally confer advantages by limiting wounding in the neck region.
~Antipredator Defenses in Birds and Mammals
By Timothy M. Caro

Source 7.
The lion's mane, not possessed by the female, is evidently such a weapon of defense; it is a excellent means of protection against the bites which the male lions try to inflict on each other's necks when fighting for the females; consequently those males with the strongest manes have the greatest advantedge for the sexual struggle.
The History of Creation, Or, The Development of the Earth and Its Inhabitants by the Action of naterual causes.
By L. Dora Schmitz, Sir E Ray Lankester

Source 8.
http://www.krugerpark.co.za/faq-on-lion.html
The mane is also a means of protection to the face and neck during fights between male lions.

Source 9.
It causes him to look bigger without increasing his weight or need for food. It also protects him from bites and scratches should he have to fight another male.
http://www.honoluluzoo.org/lion.htm

Source 10.
The mane protects the lion from bites to the throat or the neck.
http://www.destinybigcats.com/cats/zen.htm

Source 11.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/wildfacts/f ... s/14.shtml
The mane protects the lion during fights with other males.
Source 12.
http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-lion.html
The lion’s thick mane protects his neck against raking claws during fights with other males for membership in the pride.
Source 14.
(e.g lion's mane protects him from teeth and claws in a fight).
http://www.kidcyber.com.au/topics/animalclassif.htm
Source 15.
Male lions are the only cats with manes. This collar of long, thick hair covers the head, except the face, and the neck down to the shoulders and chest. The mane makes the male look even bigger and stronger than he is. It also protects him during fights. The long, thick hair softens the blows of his foes.
Schaller, George B. "Lion." World Book Encyclopedia. 2002 ed. The best naturalist of the 20th century said that.
Source 16.
On the open savannah, a lion's mane advertises his maleness from a great distance. To enhance his mane, a lion will do the "lion strut": tip-toeing on front legs, erect body and tail. The mane also protects against claws and teeth in male combat.
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Af ... -BR-1.html

Source 17.
A male lion's mane is designed to protect the animal from attacks from other lions. It apparently also works with hand grenades as well. Marjan's neck and chest were spared serious injury, but his face was badly mutilated by the blast.
http://www.lionlmb.org/lion/marjan.html

Source 18.
The most distinctive feature of the male lion is its mane, a collar of long, thick fur. An adolescent male's mane will begin to grow at 18 months, after which it will continue to grow and darken. A visual indicator of gender and power, the mane also serves to protect the lion's neck from other lions.
http://www.pbs.org/edens/etosha/lion.htm
Source 19.
The mane helps protect the lion’s neck during fighting and make him appear larger to competitors
http://www.alltooflat.com/pranks/lion/factsheet.html
Source 20.
Their mane serves a number of purposes: a) it identifies him as a mature male to other lions, even at a distance b) it gives an appearance of increased size with little weight cost c) the condition of the mane conveys the level of health and vigour to female lions d) it can help protect the head and neck area in fights with other lions.
http://www.wildcatconservation.org/faq.shtml
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Source 21.
Samantha Stephens, says the lions mane might not make a big difference, but it might be that crucial amount of difference.

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Source 22.
“When one animal attacks another, he seems to know by instinct. He strikes for the neck for a quick kill. Nature seems to have provided the lion with a defensive covering -- a mane to protect the neck area.”
~The Lion in Fact and in Fiction
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Source 23.
“The mane is strictly a male attribute and gives lion’s their majestic aura… It acts almost like a fencing mask, absorbing paw swipes aimed at the head and necks during fights between rivals. When mane’s grow to big for both rival’s, the fight can last up to hour’s due to the mane protecting the main arterie’s, little to nothing can be done to male’s who have mane’s that grown larger than others for it’s main reason is for combat .”
~The Art of Being a Lion
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Source 24.
The mane plays an important role in the lion’s life. While a long mane that blows easily in the wind may be difficult to hide when hunting an alert zebra, it is a distinct advantage in defense… That same mane gives his neck a good bit of protection in case the intruder does not turn away and chooses to challenge the resident lion for his position.
~The Last Big Cats An Untamed Spirit
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Source 25.
Male lions are larger than females and possess a voluminous mane which contrast with the sleek pelage on other parts of the body… The distinctive colors and sizes of manes may also help animals to identify individuals. An important secondary function of the mane is one of protection during fights. The dense mat of hair absorbs blows and harmlessly tangles claws in a part of the body towards which most social contact is directed; bites too, may leave an opponent with a mouth full of hair rather than skin.
~The Serengeti Lion A Study of Predator-Prey Relations Wildlife Behavior and Ecology series.
Source 26.
There is no direct evidence, but if we examine the probabilities in the case of a confrontation between the two some inferences can be drawn. In a fight would de unable to get close to the vital joint of a lion’s neck because of his thick mane, but the tiger is vulnerable to the lion. The film showed that the tiger was at an immediate disadvantage. Tigers use a throat grip as their primary means of killing and the lion's thick protective mane prevented the tiger gaining a hold on the throat joint. On the other hand, the tiger had no special protection, so was vulnerable to attack. In this fight, the tiger was killed. In any inter-species confrontation lions would also have the advantage of the who pride. But in my opinion a tiger is no match even for a single lion of equal strength. In any inter-species confrontation lions would also have the advantage of support from members of the whole pride. But in my opinion a tiger is no match even for a single lion of equal strength.
Tiger! The Story of the Indian Tiger, by Kailash Sankhala.
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Source 27.
I believe I’m fully qualified to state, as I’ve had them both on me. I bear the teeth marks of a lion that shut his jaws tight on my legs. But it isn’t the teeth of the big cats trainers fear so much. It is the claws, being hooked, tear out the flesh and sinew as they are withdrawn. When a lion goes at a trainer he starts right towards him, with no subterfuge, mouth open and tail as stiff as a poker. A tiger cringes and crawls until he makes his spring. In a fair fight it would be hard to guess which animal would come off victor, and much would depend, I think on the one that got the first good hold. The lion also is protected around the neck by the heavy mane, which is a huge advantage.
~George Conklln, “Adventures With a Circus”
Source 28.

- Source 29.
Lion’s mane save’s him from tiger’s throat attempt, an also aidded the tiger to release due to breaking his breathing pattern.
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab95 ... ection.jpg
- Source 30.
Craig packer reinstate’s an admit’s lion’s mane’s are for protecting…


- 31.The lion also is protected around the neck by the heavy mane, which is an advantage. There is one instance I remember where a full grown lion and tiger engaged in combat, by unforeseen chance of course. It was when the John O’ Brien Show had its winter quarters in Philadelphia and I was connected with it. “A lion and a tiger were in a compartment cage, with a partition between. In some manner this partition was battered down in the night and the two big felloes got together. They had probably been issuing challenges to each other and promising what they would do to one another if the chance came. When morning arrived we found the two in the lion’s cage, the tiger dead and the lion all chew and clawed to pieces, but still full of fight.”
~George Conklln, “Adventures With a Circus”
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5 ... AA300_.jpg
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32. 80% of swipe or bite is protected by the mane, as you can see the mane protect’s bite’s that can usually add up on a tiger, yet it has no effect on the lion in terms the lion can completely focus what he is doing which is draging around and mauling the tiger, which in the big cat fight world, every bite count’s…

33. lion’s mane protect’s male lion’s in combat

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You see P tigris ^^^ Somthing the tiger dosent have, an I like a old put together of some non essential B.S account of a tiger biteing off a lion's tip of the tail article that is usually brought up by tiger fan's for I dont know what why, but as all my account's are merely just counter-bate's of what is brought fourth by fanatic's an just wanted to show you what ever the tiger did so can the lion...
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lioness rip’s off tigers tail
http://deep717.blogspot.com/2008/02/ang ... -tail.html
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Pfft an the funny thing is I dont think I'm going to stop getting account's for the lion defeating the tiger, until I match the fantasy number of the 400 account's tiger fanatic's lied on that I exploited an have accumilated 400 individual account's of the oposite which I'm all together not counting the roman's if I was to include the historical artifcat's I have I will be around 150 account's in of { individual account's} an that would mean I'm a little of 1/3rd the way there already, while the tiger is almost stuck on the 30's that I am aware of, let alone having to at least to get to the 40 of 50's that I aint aware of. Meaning it;s almost like Clyde beatty's opinion say's 9/10 a lion would beat a tiger 1 on 1 it resemble's the amount of account's on hand which is 30=tiger 120= lion that's around 9/10 right?
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Oh well's, Say la vi
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