Joined: May 28th, 2005, 9:13 pm

May 31st, 2018, 8:07 pm #21

Larry,
Certainly your observations are spot-on as far as elegance and dedication to the highest levels of the gunmaking art. but my post was an attempt to expand Steve's view of potential "pre-Lincoln Jeffries" possibilities for full series production, accurate, adult-oriented air guns.  It appears I have not succeeded based on yesterday's response.  Maybe I would have been more convincing if I'd mentioned the thousands of pesky rabbits eliminated by Ian Alcock on his Scottish sheep farm using the ancient but trusty Brittania kept in his Toyota pickup truck!
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Joined: July 22nd, 2011, 4:46 am

June 1st, 2018, 6:28 am #22

45flint wrote:
oldair wrote:I’m sure these early guns are well made but my interests are drawn to rifled guns that I can still shoot with accuracy in my backyard.  It seems to me that the BSA Standard was the first true target rifle in the “modern” sense of what a target rifle should be.  These early examples in the US never progressed into the 20th century here?  Leaving the void Crosman filled as McLean was inspired by his BSA?
I completely agree that the BSA/Lincoln Jefferies rifles are the start of modern air gun target rifle. It's not just the rifled barrel but the new availability of the diabolo style pellet. It's that combination of pellet and rifled barrel that is the clear indicator that this is a true modern target airgun.  Earlier airguns designed to shoot slugs and darts from unrifled barrels are, at best, parlor guns and simply cannot be considered serious target airguns. 
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Joined: February 6th, 2016, 12:38 pm

June 1st, 2018, 2:44 pm #23

oldair wrote: Larry,
Certainly your observations are spot-on as far as elegance and dedication to the highest levels of the gunmaking art. but my post was an attempt to expand Steve's view of potential "pre-Lincoln Jeffries" possibilities for full series production, accurate, adult-oriented air guns.  It appears I have not succeeded based on yesterday's response.  Maybe I would have been more convincing if I'd mentioned the thousands of pesky rabbits eliminated by Ian Alcock on his Scottish sheep farm using the ancient but trusty Brittania kept in his Toyota pickup truck!
I think we need to go back to my original title and theme. I think it’s interesting that the example above is a English rifle not a Quackenbush in the back of the pickup?  I hear that pre-1900 in the US there were many great and interesting “parlor” guns.  But the reality is that this innovation in the US never continues into the 20th century? These models become I’m sure awesome but obscure collectables.  The innovation continues in Europe and creates a Airgun tradition there.  We in the US must wait till Crosman starts a “pumping” tradition and we do build some cool and interesting guns here.  But these guns never create a Airgun tradition that really impacts us and we thus have a very small collecting base here.  In my dreams I have John Browning creating just one Airgun and it all changes and we take airguns seriously? 
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Joined: July 6th, 2006, 12:58 pm

June 1st, 2018, 10:51 pm #24

DTFletcher wrote:
45flint wrote:
oldair wrote:I’m sure these early guns are well made but my interests are drawn to rifled guns that I can still shoot with accuracy in my backyard.  It seems to me that the BSA Standard was the first true target rifle in the “modern” sense of what a target rifle should be.  These early examples in the US never progressed into the 20th century here?  Leaving the void Crosman filled as McLean was inspired by his BSA?
I completely agree that the BSA/Lincoln Jefferies rifles are the start of modern air gun target rifle. It's not just the rifled barrel but the new availability of the diabolo style pellet. It's that combination of pellet and rifled barrel that is the clear indicator that this is a true modern target airgun.  Earlier airguns designed to shoot slugs and darts from unrifled barrels are, at best, parlor guns and simply cannot be considered serious target airguns. 
Didn't we start this discussion with the question "Why so few collectors of vintage airguns in US?"   ? There was in the original post a suggestion that perhaps there is not enough of an American airgun heritage to build from. I think JohnG and DannyG both addressed that subject, noting that there is a tremendous, historical background of pneumatic innovation within the States, so that suggestion must not adequately answer the original question of lack of airgun collectors in the States....not sure how that original question morphed into a treatise on when and where "modern" target (and more accurate) airguns became readily available.
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