Hello and unkown underlever, any ideas?

Joined: May 4th, 2007, 6:14 pm

January 1st, 2009, 4:34 pm #1

Hi all. Been a member for a while (from UK), but think this is my first post.
But now to business!

Can anyone identify this? A recent aquisition.

Its a .177 taploading underlever with a double mainspring (as a Tornado) and a safety catch at the rear of the reciever (like a Webley Hawk). No marings other than a serial number, 10664, just in front of the loading tap on the lh side of the reciever. Its not a conventional Relum Tornado, though the stock shape, the trigger guard and the double springs mean it might be made by FEG in Hungary who did make the Tornado and who seemed to have made airguns for a number of Eastern European manufacturers.

However the underlever clips onto the barrel with a very simple push on catch, and the loading tap arrangelemt is far more reminiscent of German design than Hungarian. Also the cocking lever is a non articulated single arm.

One thought that I had was that it might be a Predom Lucznik, they certainly made a couple of barrel cockers with this shape of stock. Links to some photos below. Any ideas?

[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
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Joined: May 27th, 2005, 1:40 am

January 1st, 2009, 5:18 pm #2

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Joined: July 20th, 2005, 7:02 pm

January 1st, 2009, 8:25 pm #3

Hi all. Been a member for a while (from UK), but think this is my first post.
But now to business!

Can anyone identify this? A recent aquisition.

Its a .177 taploading underlever with a double mainspring (as a Tornado) and a safety catch at the rear of the reciever (like a Webley Hawk). No marings other than a serial number, 10664, just in front of the loading tap on the lh side of the reciever. Its not a conventional Relum Tornado, though the stock shape, the trigger guard and the double springs mean it might be made by FEG in Hungary who did make the Tornado and who seemed to have made airguns for a number of Eastern European manufacturers.

However the underlever clips onto the barrel with a very simple push on catch, and the loading tap arrangelemt is far more reminiscent of German design than Hungarian. Also the cocking lever is a non articulated single arm.

One thought that I had was that it might be a Predom Lucznik, they certainly made a couple of barrel cockers with this shape of stock. Links to some photos below. Any ideas?

[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
Welcome to the finest airgun forum on the internet. It seems this place is much more civilized than most. I'm not sure if fine gentlemen are drawn to old air guns, or if old air guns are drawn to fine gentlemen, but this place is truly a collection of fine gentlemen.

Now, on to your rifle. Interesting indeed. I tend to agree with your initial impression that it's something from the FEG bloodline. The longitudinal flutes on the stock point me in that direction. Is the front sight secured with a setscrew? It looks very similar to the one on my Super Tornado.

No doubt our resident expert and museum curator, Frank Korn will have the answer. And just as likely, he'll have a few pictures of several similar examples.

I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
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Joined: February 21st, 2005, 12:05 pm

January 1st, 2009, 8:49 pm #4

Hi all. Been a member for a while (from UK), but think this is my first post.
But now to business!

Can anyone identify this? A recent aquisition.

Its a .177 taploading underlever with a double mainspring (as a Tornado) and a safety catch at the rear of the reciever (like a Webley Hawk). No marings other than a serial number, 10664, just in front of the loading tap on the lh side of the reciever. Its not a conventional Relum Tornado, though the stock shape, the trigger guard and the double springs mean it might be made by FEG in Hungary who did make the Tornado and who seemed to have made airguns for a number of Eastern European manufacturers.

However the underlever clips onto the barrel with a very simple push on catch, and the loading tap arrangelemt is far more reminiscent of German design than Hungarian. Also the cocking lever is a non articulated single arm.

One thought that I had was that it might be a Predom Lucznik, they certainly made a couple of barrel cockers with this shape of stock. Links to some photos below. Any ideas?

[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
[img]http://i233.photobucket.com/albums ... .jpg[/img]
Have got 2 barrel cockers from the same origin.

This is the big model:
It was sold by a mail order company called "Wehkamp".

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The smaller model was sold by a Amsterdam based company called "Grothaus".

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The 2 compared side by side:

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MY conclusions are:

Both MY guns AND yours are made by the same factory.
The similarety with the FEG made guns is obvious (construction,double spring etc).
The "Grothaus" markings one the small barrel cocker is (for me) the desiding element,because this Dutch Importer sold ONLY air guns made by FEG.

--------------------------------
Frank

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Joined: May 4th, 2007, 6:14 pm

January 1st, 2009, 11:01 pm #5

Frank.



What a fine forum this is.



Wonderful! You have solved the mystery. Without doubt my underlever is from the same stable, so its an FEG manufactured rifle for Predom Lucznik and or other distributors around Europe. In many ways it could not be more different from the actual 'Hungarian' underlevers, the Tornado, mini Tornado and the later Supers (whose blocky stock is similar). The safety and the odd and crude clip. I'm assuming that the actual design came from elsewhere than FEG (Poland?). Your two breakbarrels are the KL187/188 Predom models of 1970s vintage, John Walters gives them a brief mention in the Airgun Book, but clearly an underlever needs to be added to his list.


Oliver
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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 12:50 am

January 2nd, 2009, 4:42 am #6

looks a lot like this
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Joined: February 21st, 2005, 12:05 pm

January 2nd, 2009, 8:29 am #7

Frank.



What a fine forum this is.



Wonderful! You have solved the mystery. Without doubt my underlever is from the same stable, so its an FEG manufactured rifle for Predom Lucznik and or other distributors around Europe. In many ways it could not be more different from the actual 'Hungarian' underlevers, the Tornado, mini Tornado and the later Supers (whose blocky stock is similar). The safety and the odd and crude clip. I'm assuming that the actual design came from elsewhere than FEG (Poland?). Your two breakbarrels are the KL187/188 Predom models of 1970s vintage, John Walters gives them a brief mention in the Airgun Book, but clearly an underlever needs to be added to his list.


Oliver
Personally,I see more differences then similareties.
Have never seen or heard about a FEG-Predom cooperation ?




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--------------------------
Frank
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Joined: May 4th, 2007, 6:14 pm

January 2nd, 2009, 9:30 am #8

Certainly there are differences, but the blocky stock and inset safety of your two original images are identical. The double mainsrping is a further suggestion. I would reckon that the stock form changed from the traditional 'sporter' style you show in your last post to the 'box form' as an upgrade, rather like the actual FEG products changed from the more elegant stocks of the 60s to the Taurus, Rapide and Super Tornado 'blocks' in the 70s.

I saw a very interesting series of posts on here some time back where it was suggested that FEG made guns also for Slavia (I think) and other E. European manufacturers.

I would be very surprised if this wierd underlever were not from the same line of descent as the 187/188.

Ollie
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Joined: February 21st, 2005, 12:05 pm

January 2nd, 2009, 5:09 pm #9

There is NO conection between the Hungarian FEG factory and the Polish Predom factory !
FEG made rifles under different brand names,f.i. Relum,Telly,Grothaus and Wehkamp.

The Slavia guns where made by Yougoslavian factories ( a.o. CZ and BRNO ) NOT by FEG. !



--------------------------

Frank
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Joined: November 4th, 2008, 10:41 pm

January 10th, 2009, 5:20 pm #10

Frank, I believe you meant to say Czechoslovakia instead of Joegoslavia, as you indicate two Czech factories.
From what I hear the Slavia guns are of a well liked quality, which I readilly can link with CZ, who also made some very nifty racing motorcycles.
But that is for another forum...
Regards,
Mike Meijer
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