motorboat access to interior lakes

Joined: April 21st, 2014, 4:12 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 1:26 am #1

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
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Joined: April 9th, 2010, 12:38 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 2:39 pm #2

...the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

IIRC, it is the AFA that's responsible for decommissioning roads once they're not needed by the logging industry. Bridge removal and ditching are two ways roads can be closed off to motorized traffic but this can't be done in all instances. The primary roads in any case need to be kept open year after year for logging transport and the smaller secondary and tertiary side roads may or may not be closed.

MNR staff will be responsible for monitoring effects of road use, and with about 8000 km of roads of all kinds in total, good luck keeping track of them all, especially with the MNR funding cutbacks going on right now.

Any scientist or parks manager will agree that it's roads that destroy wilderness values and ecological integrity of natural areas. The politics relating to APP right now won't allow for closure of all roads, but there are the protected wilderness zones and natural areas, where roads will be allowed to regenerate back to a forested state (except for primary roads which will be kept open).

The total protected area where logging has been prohibited now amounts to over 40% of the total land area in the park, so if it's any consolation, there may be some possibilities to find remote areas distant from roads there. Still, not the best kind of news if your favorite formerly-remote lake has been invaded by motorized users.

PS... I wouldn't publicize locations of any good spots discovered by searching on the ground over the internet. It's quite possible that the individuals looking for the next great undiscovered place to drive to by truck, ATV or snowmobile are reading these threads... MNR just doesn't have the staff or the money to prevent all the illegal access.
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Joined: October 21st, 2010, 1:42 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 4:12 pm #3

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Whatever MNR official said that aboriginals can do whatever they want is incorrect ... technically thats incorrect ... I thought the same thing until a local conservation officer explained the situation to me ... there has bee a federal court ruling that granted certain aborigial groups (e.g. mik mak in NS for example) the right to fish, hunt, etc. and so this trumps provincial regulations. But as he explained to me, only cetain aboriginal groups signed treaties from 300 years ago ... and the ruling was specific to those groups ... so the big question remains ... should the federal court ruling cover all aboriginbal groups ... so until that gets sorted out, provincial regulations can still be enforced ... however the provinces know this would result in lots and lots of legal challenges that most provinces would rather avoid ... thats where the negotiations come in ... and thats what has gone on in many areas including Algonquin park ... the local native bands are working (negotiating?) with the province/park officials to only take a certain number of moose, etc. From what he told me ... in general the native councils have been very reasonable to work with ... and the agreements they negotiate are taken very seriously ... moose are counted and tagged ... if someone is breaking the rules of the agreement/regulations then certainly htere's something the offcier can do ... although he might not like doing it.

Of course there will always be a few bad apples that will disregard any agrement and so its up to the band council to police these folks on their own ...

At least thats the way it was explined to me ...
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Joined: February 1st, 2013, 6:12 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 4:30 pm #4

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Funny how times change.... Canoe trippers using canoes and paddles, natives using ATV's and motorboats.
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Joined: April 21st, 2014, 4:12 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 4:51 pm #5

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Sorry, I was a little over the top in stating that the aboriginals can do whatever they want. Your explanation was much more accurate. It's a virtual certainly that groups such as the Golden Lake reserve will negotiate special hunting and fishing rights including within Algonquin so it would be pointless to lay charges against anyone from the reserve at this time. It certainly isn't a fast process though -- it has to have been at least 20 years since it became public knowledge that members of the Golden Lake reserve were using the network of logging roads to enter the interior of the park to fish and hunt.
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Joined: April 2nd, 2011, 12:14 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 4:58 pm #6

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGIOQuUtJOM
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Joined: November 20th, 2011, 10:25 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 8:58 pm #7

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
" However, with the consideration of areas unavailable for forestry in the Recreation/Utilization Zone (e.g. rock, water, swamps, or Areas of Concern), the total area in Algonquin Park unavailable for forestry operations is approximately 49% "
For clarity on a contentious issue , accurate numbers from the FoAP website .

Motor boats are seasonally allowed on White Partridge , whether status card or not .
Was chattin with a lad that was there this spring , the cart trail has been cleared .

Rules for First Nations use of Algonquin Park changed significantly thanks to the legacy of Bob Rae , ironically enough the same lot that wish to return Algonquin Park to the utopic central Ontario wilderness within a four hour drive of approx. 12 million humans and their various needs and seasonal desires.

Shut er down and close er up lads , while yer at it ya can take out Highway 60 , and the Hydro line that reaches it's veins through the East of Algonquin . Plenty of access to the interior for the needs of the GTA fer those that like to bake their cakes and eat them too .


Algonquin Park has been a multi-use park for more than a century , and will continue to be so , despite the seasonal whims of some of it's users .
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Joined: June 3rd, 2009, 9:39 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 9:35 pm #8

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
The regs governing motor boats in Ontario Provincial Parks can be found here:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... e.htm#BK18

The very simplified "Motor Restrictions" are listed on the Algonquin Park website:

http://www.algonquinpark.on.ca/visit/pa ... ctions.php

Motors of 6 horsepower or less may be used, except from the last Friday in June to the first Monday in September inclusive, on:

Big Crow Lake
Hogan Lake
Lake La Muir
Proulx Lake
Little Crow Lake
White Partridge Lake


I won't comment at all on this topic. It's one of those "hot button" topics that can get out of control...

just like the cottages in Algonquin topic.

Not worth getting worked up over these things. It's been like this for a long, long time, and no amount of yammering is going to change anything.

Won't be surprised to see this thread closed, as well as the "cottage" thread.


Barbara
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Joined: November 20th, 2011, 10:25 pm

July 3rd, 2014, 10:25 pm #9

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Yammering may not change things , fair discussion may allow all to make choices with a broader understanding of such hot topic issues .
When this thread proceeds to the point that is in disregard of forum rules .... I too wish it to be locked , until then , let the people speak !
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Joined: October 21st, 2010, 1:42 pm

July 4th, 2014, 12:37 pm #10

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
I second that John ...

Lets not be afraid to discuss a hot topic within forum rules ... I'd be more afraid it we were NOT allowed to discuss it ...
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