Joined: April 9th, 2010, 12:38 pm

July 4th, 2014, 12:54 pm #11

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Barbara,

Not worth getting worked up over these things. It's been like this for a long, long time, and no amount of yammering is going to change anything.

Hm, well, the yammering that's been going on elsewhere since the early seventies resulted in change... protected park area where logging was banned by park policy (the formal protection by zoning actually being written into APP park plans) - increased from zero (pre-1974 before there was a plan) to 7%, to 22% and now 35%.

The APP park plan currently defining how the park needs to be managed was written in 1998... it does not include the direction given by the newer 2007 Parks and Conservation Reserves Act which states that "maintenance of ecological integrity shall be the first priority" in parks management and "opportunities for public consultation will be provided" as planning moves forward.

A new park plan may be needed in the next several years, since the plan needs to be made current with the requirements of the new Parks Act... so I expect much more yammering here and elsewhere on what needs to be done for the well-being of the park, especially on road access since it's one of the more serious problems.

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Joined: April 2nd, 2011, 12:14 pm

July 4th, 2014, 1:48 pm #12

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Perhaps more to the point is that a new park plan will be required to address the Algonquin Land Claim. Maintaining ecological integrity while facilitating First Nations' harvesting rights should be an interesting balancing act. Road access (and atv and snowmobile access and the use of outboard motors) is seen by some as an important component of harvesting rights.
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Joined: June 1st, 2009, 10:00 pm

July 4th, 2014, 3:41 pm #13

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
As a member of the Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists Executive Committee, I want to remind forum readers that in February of 2013, members of the ABR-EC met with Bruce Mighton, Richard Raper and Nancy Wilson of the Ontario Negotiating Team's Support Staff. Within the ABR's presentation was the position that Section 9.1.15 of the negotiations' draft Agreement In Principle should be rewritten with specific reference to the underlined/emboldened additions in the following italicized passage ...

Access to and within Protected Areas
9.1.15

The Final Agreement will provide that waterways, roads, trails, use of motorized craft and vehicles and other access issues in Protected Areas will be addressed through Protected Area Management Planning processes, which will take into account, in addition to other considerations, the following principles:

(a) a controlled access regime, the maintenance of Ecological Integrity, and the preservation of recreational values are priorities for Algonquin Provincial Park and other Protected Areas; and

(b) the Algonquin interest in maintaining access to Algonquin Provincial Park and other Protected Areas listed in Schedule 9.1A for Harvesting purposes.

Ontario will consult with other users during the development of these principles, processes and plans.


>>> The ABR's initial position paper, the Land Claim's Draft Agreement In Principle, and subsequent ABR submissions can be accessed at the ABR's website .. http://www.abrweb.ca .

Barry Bridgeford
http://www.AlgonquinAdventures.com
http://www.ABRweb.ca .. Algonquin Backcountry Recreationalists - Caring for Algonquin's Backcountry
http://www.abrweb.ca/docs/ABR-LNT-L50S.pdf .. Backcountry of Algonquin Park Leave No Trace Outdoor Skills and Ethics
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Joined: January 26th, 2011, 7:36 pm

July 4th, 2014, 11:20 pm #14

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
I always try to camp on lakes where roads are not close by, thus avoiding easy access for those who do not wish to travel the 'traditional' way anymore!
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Joined: April 9th, 2010, 12:38 pm

July 5th, 2014, 3:16 pm #15

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Barry, has there been any news on how far along the approval of the Agreement-in-Principle by all parties is... I haven't heard any news myself, at the same time haven't been following the process too closely.

The AIP as I understand it will not be legally binding... OTOH the Final Agreement whatever that turns out to be after future negotiations, and whenever those are done with, will be a final, binding agreement. In the few news reports I've been able to read, the end of the process - after all the negotiations, revisions and approvals by the Algonquins, together with those of Ontario and Canada, is still a long way off.

There may be some optimism drawn from the AIP preliminary draft, in that "all parties agree that ecological integrity will be the first priority in the management of protected areas in the settlement area". APP is included in the settlement area, so that at least is some common ground towards recognizing what needs to be done for protection.

In loosely-worded principle anyway, since the AIP isn't legally binding this could still change with future negotiations towards the Final Agreement.
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Joined: June 1st, 2009, 10:00 pm

July 5th, 2014, 8:04 pm #16

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Just this past Thursday, the ABR received an email from the Ontario negotiation team indicating that there was not much to report and that they were just briefing new Ontario Ministers on the file.

In addition, from an entirely different and unofficial source, there's been an indication that the Federal government may not be too impressed with how the process is developing and with displeasures apparently being voiced by some of the Committee of External Advisors.

So all we really have so far is bureaucratic delay and hearsay conjecture.

Not encouraging!
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Joined: April 2nd, 2011, 12:14 pm

July 5th, 2014, 8:23 pm #17

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
Sounds like good news to me. I think the Agreement in Principle is a bad deal for Algonquin Park. I do not share your optimism that ecological integrity will be appropriately protected when facing off against harvesting rights. (But I applaud the ABR's submission on the subject.) Nor am I optimistic that there will be meaningful restrictions on the use of forestry roads or motorized access (including outboards, snowmobiles and ATVs). Hopefully, I'm wrong but "blessed are the pessimists for they shall not be disappointed".

However, a delay is bad as it extends the current period of ambiguity with respect to fishing rights. How well will the speckled trout fishery stand up to the ongoing winter harvesting via snowmobile?
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Joined: August 27th, 2015, 12:22 am

August 27th, 2015, 12:30 am #18

" However, with the consideration of areas unavailable for forestry in the Recreation/Utilization Zone (e.g. rock, water, swamps, or Areas of Concern), the total area in Algonquin Park unavailable for forestry operations is approximately 49% "
For clarity on a contentious issue , accurate numbers from the FoAP website .

Motor boats are seasonally allowed on White Partridge , whether status card or not .
Was chattin with a lad that was there this spring , the cart trail has been cleared .

Rules for First Nations use of Algonquin Park changed significantly thanks to the legacy of Bob Rae , ironically enough the same lot that wish to return Algonquin Park to the utopic central Ontario wilderness within a four hour drive of approx. 12 million humans and their various needs and seasonal desires.

Shut er down and close er up lads , while yer at it ya can take out Highway 60 , and the Hydro line that reaches it's veins through the East of Algonquin . Plenty of access to the interior for the needs of the GTA fer those that like to bake their cakes and eat them too .


Algonquin Park has been a multi-use park for more than a century , and will continue to be so , despite the seasonal whims of some of it's users .
I went into WP twice this year (with a canoe being towed by a cart). First was May 24 wknd. Witnessed boats, motors and non-aboriginal people being carted in by horse (not allowed to drive in by vehicle) I think it is worth saying. I also have Algonquin aborignal friend (I spend alot of time with in the park)who stated that if you are not Algonquin Native and do not have permission from the Algonquin Chief (or office) you are not permitted to drive or have the same rights as Algonquins, if aborignal from another tribe. I must admit it is odd for me to be portaging and my friend driving but he gets to keep his rights this way.

Just a little info being left out in this. The park is amazing and I sure do enjoy it.

(Edits in italics)
Last edited by BarryBridgeford on August 27th, 2015, 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 2nd, 2016, 1:21 pm

June 2nd, 2016, 2:51 pm #19

After portaging almost 5km in one day to get from Kiosk to Three Mile Lake we were surprised and disappointed to see what was apparently a motorboat with three people fishing the following morning. It definitely wasn't the local rangers who we had met the previous day on Manitou in a different boat. While I have no idea who the people in the boat were, the MNR person I talked to after the trip agreed that they were most likely aboriginals who are pretty much free to do whatever they want in the park.

It isn't the first time I have seen motorboats in interior lakes. About 20 years I did a spring trip through White Partridge Lake and we encountered three or four motorboats out on the lake. There was a sizeable community of tents, truck campers and camper trailers on the east shore of the lake. Later that year when we were talking to the MNR employee responsible for interior maintainance his comment was "Oh, we didn't think they could still get in there as the road was washed out".

As a teenager, we once drove into the Basin Lake area from Round Lake and at that time an MNR employee was stationed at the park boundary. Nowadays, access roads into the Algonquin interior are neither gated nor manned. It is a system that guarantees abuse. As my story about our White Partridge trip illustrates, the park authorities are largely clueless about who is accessing the backcountry via the extensive network of logging roads.

At a minimum, MNR should close roads that go directly to an interior lake shore.
I am native! Just want to get this out of the way first. I don't carry a card and I receive no benefit over any other Canadian.
First off, on white mans arrival only 3% of North America was occupied.
If you want to hunt protected areas use traditional equipment and walk in, and out with your meat, that's a traditional harvest! I do it and so can you.
Second , I am so tired of all theses blond haired blue eyed natives that exercise native rights with their watered down gene pools, you should be embarrassed!
Your traditional harvest should include mice, chipmunk , garter snakes and any other easy to catch small game, fish such as suckers where more prominent in your traditional diet tha lake trout, as well as smelts and other easier to catch course fish.
If you say your Indian be an Indian!
Be proud stop embarrassing yourselves
People make jokes about the 4x4 trucks 4wheelers,snowmobiles,motor boats and camper trailers!
Respect yourselves! 280 million dollar cash and land claim, ridiculous
That this would even be considered.
This is why I don't carry a card. I am embarrassed of my people!
On a side note. There is new archeological evidence that we where not the first people.
Lance heads made of chert from Europe predates our people by 15000 years has been discovered by scallop drag gears on the east coast!
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