Paul H
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Paul H
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
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Joined: April 23rd, 2010, 6:46 pm

April 24th, 2017, 3:20 pm #31

Paws4thot wrote:For your purposes, a sensible refinement would be that ricochet only occurs in "direct fire", so don't use it if the muzzle elevation is greater than 25 degrees relative to the initial landing site (not an issue with those guns at Cannon Farm, but if you'd had, say 10" Parrots firing off a 500' elevation summit it would have been).
And there´s the rub. I agree about it being only used in direct fire but What if the gun is elevated at not 25° but at say 20° and firing across open ground, grassland but that ground is broken by a ploughed section and then again grassland ? The flatter the trajectory and the harder the ground the longer and flatter the bounces. The computations to get every single possible sitution and condition would be a book in itsself and probably still not cover everything...definetely the way of madness :hithead:
czartan wrote:I gave up with the Airfix rules fairly early on, I will be trying out Fire and Fury to see how they go.
I too stopped using them years ago but took them up again for the purpose of this Project. Basically I was trying to ignore everything, rules included, that I wouldn´t have done as a nipper. Mind you, that said I did, as a nipper, wargame with Napoleonics with some 14,000 figs plus and using the "Rules for Wargames Napoleonic Warfare" (3rd Edition) by Newbury Rules with the army Points adapted. With all the tables for this and that the the games would last for days!!!
I´ve still got the Newbury rules and after another game or two I will take bits and pieces from the Airfix, Charge Boys Charge! and the newbury ones and see if I can come up with a "easy but more or less correct" rule set. ...then after that, some Medieval/Fantasy using the 1979 third Edition of "Chainmail" :clap: :clap:
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
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czartan
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Joined: February 25th, 2010, 2:48 pm

April 24th, 2017, 3:25 pm #32

My current projects are "En Garde" using Redoubt miniatures musketeer figures and refighting Falkirk Muir using paper soldiers
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Paws4thot
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Joined: September 20th, 2016, 8:55 am

April 24th, 2017, 4:03 pm #33

@Paul H which is pretty much my point. Unless you want to identify the terrain type of every square inch of your field you can't always accurately model when ricochet would occur. What you can say is that above a certain angle of incidence shot will almost always plug or squash even on rock or water. It just so happens that 25 degrees elevation is a close approximation to that angle for anything from 0.303" up to 16" projectiles.
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Paul H
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Paul H
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Joined: April 23rd, 2010, 6:46 pm

April 24th, 2017, 4:35 pm #34

czartan wrote:My current projects are "En Garde" using Redoubt miniatures musketeer figures and refighting Falkirk Muir using paper soldiers
Sounds interesting...I was thinking (a while back) of getting into wargaming with paper soldiers. Any Pics?
Paws4thot wrote:What you can say is that above a certain angle of incidence shot will almost always plug or squash even on rock or water. It just so happens that 25 degrees elevation is a close approximation to that angle for anything from 0.303" up to 16" projectiles.
So basically, the "bounce stick" (if the shot is at the 25° angle) is valid for most ground conditions? Plug or squash ? I´m Intrigued :)
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
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Paul H
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Paul H
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Joined: April 23rd, 2010, 6:46 pm

April 24th, 2017, 4:36 pm #35

PS...discussion of the rules etc and others wargames is what I hoped would happen :thumb: :)
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Paws4thot
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Joined: September 20th, 2016, 8:55 am

April 25th, 2017, 12:36 pm #36

@PaulH - Ricochet is a posh word for "bounce". This happens when the angle of incidence is such that the projectile's energy isn't absorbed by the terrain it hits (and as a plus water counts as terrain so this even works for naval games).

Plugging occurs when the angle of incidence on soft ground is such that the projectile digs in.

Squashing (or fragmenting) is like plugging, but on hard ground. In fact, on rock a cast iron shot would shatter, and produce a shower of fragments. It's quite possible that observing this effect during the Peninsular War is what gave Henry Shrapnel the idea which led to the eponymous shells (which would have been known and probably used in larger guns during the ACW).
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