British (European) AFV Colour schemes 39-45

Questions, hints and tips about the correct decals, markings and paint schemes for Military Vehicles. Not about "how" to paint or decal.

British (European) AFV Colour schemes 39-45

Ratch
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006, 06:32

28 Feb 2010, 17:21 #1

I have this list of schemes, but how quickly would changes be implemented  :?:

3-Colour Disruptive Pattern, 1939
Base colour, 3-colour disruptive pattern, Europe 1939 No.3 B.S.381-1939 Khaki Green No.23 B.S.381-1930 Middle Bronze Green
Dark disruptive colour, 3-colour disruptive pattern, Europe 1939 No.4 B.S.381-1939 No.24 B.S.381-1930 Dark Green
Light disruptive colour, 3-colour disruptive pattern, Europe 1939 No.5 B.S.381-1939 No.22 B.S.381-1930 Light Green

2-Colour Disruptive Pattern, 1941
Base colour, 2-colour disruptive pattern, Europe 1941 No.2 B.S.987C-1942 Khaki Brown
Secondary colour, 2-colour disruptive pattern, Europe 1941 No.1A B.S.987C-1942
Dark Earth

Base colour, Europe 1942 No.7 B.S.381-1939 Khaki Green

Base colour, Europe 1942 – 1943 No.2 B.S.987C-1942 Khaki Brown

Base colour, North Africa (Tunisia) 1943 No.3 B.S.381-1939 Khaki Green No.23 B.S.381-1930 Middle Bronze Green

Mickey Mouse Pattern, Normandy 1944
Base colour, Mickey Mouse pattern, Europe 1944 No.15 B.S.987C-1942 Khaki Drab (FS 34088)
Disruptive colour, Mickey Mouse pattern, Europe 1944 Black

Introduced April 1944 in A.C.I. 533 as new basic colour with or
without S.C.C.1A or 14 disruptive paintwork as M.T.P.46 for operations in N.W. Europe and Italy S.C.C. 15 Olive Drab.
1941-45 in M.T.P. 46 scheme and with S.C.C. 15 in N.W. Europe S.C.C. 14  (blue-black or charcoal)

Base colour, Europe 1945 No.24 B.S.381-1942 Deep Bronze Green

Would vehicles be hanging about (on or off the front line) in old schemes  :shrug:
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David_Clark
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01 Mar 2010, 10:20 #2

Ratch

Yes, vehicles in older camouflage schemes would be around and about.  Priority was given to re-painting sharp edge vehicles and then usually when repairs or modifications were necessary, such as converting 75mm Shermans to Fireflies.

Therefore, you would expect to see British Shermans in NW Europe in US olive drab, SCC2 or SCC15 and NZ Shermans in Italy in Light Mud and Black, SCC2 or SCC15.  Softskins in particular would be more likely to remain in SCC2 until the end of the war.

Note that 'Mickey Mouse Ear' was not an official camouflage but seems to have been a common interpretation of the disruptive SCC14 over SCC2 or SCC15.  Note further that armoured vehicles generally didn't have disruptive camouflage (exceptions of course) and some formations, such as the Guards Armoured Division, did not use disruptive camouflage at all.

Deep Bronze Green was a post war colour.

All of the above is derived from Mike Starmer's excellent books (now being serialised in one of the modelling magazines).

Regards

David
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Ratch
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006, 06:32

01 Mar 2010, 17:18 #3

Thank you David  :D  that's a great help  :thumb:
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ntrocket88
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09 Aug 2010, 21:46 #4

Hi All. Does anyone have a feel for what percentage of British Tanks in Normandy would have been SCC2 'brown' vs. SCC15 'olive drab'? I am particularly interested in the colo(u)r of Cromwell IV in July 1944. Many thanks.
Neil

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Ratch
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006, 06:32

09 Aug 2010, 22:27 #5

I know a gentleman (Reg Spittals) who commanded a Cromwell for the 2nd Northants, and he says that theirs were green  :geek:



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T16S
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09 Aug 2010, 23:10 #6

Just to put my pennorth worth in and confuse things further. I have seen a photo of a Cromwell in Pickering in two colour camouflage belonging to the Welsh Guards. Don't know if it was like that when it arrived in Normandy but it may have been. Of course the photo is B+W!
Stuart :roll:
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Ratch
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006, 06:32

09 Aug 2010, 23:14 #7

I've got a picture of that one in my Cromwell IV Profile booklet  8-)
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ntrocket88
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10 Aug 2010, 22:43 #8

Ratch wrote:I know a gentleman (Reg Spittals) who commanded a Cromwell for the 2nd Northants, and he says that theirs were green
You can't get better info than from someone who was there!!! Great job on the Cromwell, too. Many thanks.

How much other stuff could have been repainted in two months, though?

Cheers.
Neil

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Ratch
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11 Aug 2010, 13:38 #9

I had the impression that the Cromwells were fairly new to 2NY  :roll:
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T16S
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11 Aug 2010, 13:38 #10

Ken Cardy wrote in his war memoir that when they were waiting to embark for France they spent time waterproofing the vehicles and painting camouflage and white stars etc on them. Once ashore they were advised to paint over the stars and put new ones on the engine deck because tanks had been shot through the centre of the stars with panzerfausts. This was the Welsh Guards with Cromwells, Cardy's tank was a Cromwell AFV attached to their LAD.
cheers Stuart
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Ratch
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11 Aug 2010, 13:40 #11

Some of Reg's photos are in this thread  :wink:

2NY had been firing Cromwells since Oct '43 and got some 'new' Cromwells in March '44  :!:
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strider4142
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15 Jan 2011, 09:31 #12

hi, I plan to do some of my airfix d-day trucks with mickey mouse camo blotches. I've seen the threads on the RAF tankers with MM camo but I'm pretty sure the undercoat should be light olive drab (humbrol 86) what colour is the MM pattern though, some say black (Hu33) but I've seen some pics that look like it's a deep black/green like humbrol 91


I haven't painted the mickey mouse patterns on yet but before I do, can someone point me in the right direction paintwise?
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Ratch
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Joined: 22 Apr 2006, 06:32

15 Jan 2011, 10:46 #13

Read the thread I've merged your post with  :Tank:
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ntrocket88
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15 Jan 2011, 16:12 #14

strider4142:290006 wrote:hi, I plan to do some of my airfix d-day trucks with mickey mouse camo blotches. I've seen the threads on the RAF tankers with MM camo but I'm pretty sure the undercoat should be light olive drab (humbrol 86) what colour is the MM pattern though, some say black (Hu33) but I've seen some pics that look like it's a deep black/green like humbrol 91...I haven't painted the mickey mouse patterns on yet but before I do, can someone point me in the right direction paintwise?
The thread below had a (very) lively discussion on what color SCC15 British Olive Drab really was! It discussed the merits of the MAFVA site Humbrol mix recommendations at some length...
http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.o ... 22413.html

My personal gut feeling is that most vehicles must have still been SCC2 - Brown/Service Drab in Normandy. The SCC15 Olive Drab color was introduced in April 1944, and I have a hard time believing that everything was repainted before D-Day. The mickey mouse patterns could be either SCC1 Very Dark Brown or SCC14 Blue-Black.

The MAFVA reference 'British Vehicle Camouflage, 1939-45' by Mike Starmer, includes what Humbrol colors to mix to get the best match to the originals:
http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/Starmer%20camo.htm
Neil

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Ratch
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01 Feb 2018, 11:13 #15

I'm looking to finish a Crusader II like the ones in these pictures



I have this note
During this period the 2nd trained with Universal Carriers (Bren Mk I), Valentines, Crusaders, Matildas and Stuart Honeys. Camouflage was 2-tone green with black and yellow streaks.
though it might have been misplaced. The piece of paper under the second photo says about these colours though it has no note of the date.
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