Address for Rick Hartman

Address for Rick Hartman

Joined: November 25th, 2000, 10:31 pm

November 10th, 2008, 5:48 pm #1

Reviewing last summer's email while I was abroad, I replied to one from Rick Hartman about the recent Convention in Flagstaff, AZ. To my intense annoyance, 2 email addresses for him didn't work. They were: RT1135@msn.com and rt1135@cableone.net. Repeat, these addresses are NO GOOD! He is listed in the club directory for 06 (the latest one I can find) in Prescott AZ but it doesn't include email addresses (probably out of date too, anyway).

Any assistance in furnishing a valid e-mail address for Rick would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Roger Williams, member, Boulder, Colorado.
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Joined: January 21st, 2004, 3:15 pm

November 12th, 2008, 2:21 am #2

When an email address doesn't work, perhaps it has been changed, or in the case of Rick Hartman, de-activated.

A casual preview of the Directory roster will reveal that we do not publish any email or phone. Emails change too often, and phones are considered too direct & personal. We publish mail addresses only for highpointing-related use.

That being said, I will make a note in the upcoming newsletter about Rick going dark.
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Joined: March 28th, 2005, 10:24 pm

November 13th, 2008, 4:44 am #3

I have a concern regarding the posting of my street address in the Club Directory. I was recently the victim of identity fraud, via somebody who later went to prison for it and recently got out. As a result, several months ago I informed Craig Noland that I want to be in the Club Directory but without showing my street address. I don't mind showing my Name, City, State, # of Highpoints, etc.

Craig had basically stated it was either all or nothing. Either I choose to have my entire mailing address in the Club Directory, or I completely opt out of appearing in the Club Directory. I don't think that's fair, especially considering the seriousness of my situation. And I should be able to proudly display my membership along with other members in the Club Directory.

I know the ability is there. After all, family members don't have any addresses showing (granted, because of redundacy in most cases). I see no logical reason why this cannot be done in my case, as well.
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Is there anybody else I can discuss this with? I am a paying member of the club, and I believe a club should care for its members' safety and concerns.

Thanks.
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Joined: January 21st, 2004, 3:15 pm

November 13th, 2008, 6:27 pm #4

Whoa there. We truly appreciate the feedback, but I'm a little concerned when I read a comment, "I believe a club should care for its members' safety and concerns" Do you imply that we don't try to do everything possible? We do.

Also, what's this "I don't think that's fair" and "I see no logical reason why this cannot be done" ? Craig isn't getting paid to do this stuff. Craig works countless hours every week to keep the database up to date. This is a volunteer organization, and as such, we find the quickest and easiest way to bring the most value to the most people.

I too share your concern about identify theft, and about providing names and contact information (and even photos and stories) of our members. We are very strict about how people use this information, and we'd clamp down in a second if we knew about any use other than highpointing. If we only provided your name and town, it seems to me that it wouldn't take a minute to find your street address and even the names of your pets. We live in that kind of world. "1984"

Setting aside your concern as a member, imagine the visibility of the Club's Directors and Officers and Chairs. In this age of identify theft, it's a wonder anyone volunteers at all or joins any organization.

With our Club roster in a database, I suppose it's possible to do anything with it, such as creating a field to filter out street addresses, but those types of things require time and energy, and unless you're donating as much time as Craig does, I don't see it as fair that you request any more from the guy.

Regarding your comment, "Is there anybody else I can discuss this with?" have you noticed that there are four Officers and a Board of Directors in this Club? Perhaps a request to them is in order, although it all boils down to how much time our few volunteers have to serve our members.

And then there are the recent requests to add MORE contact information in the Directory (phones and emails) . . .

More comments appreciated, either in this Forum or emailed directly to the Club.
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Joined: January 21st, 2004, 3:15 pm

November 13th, 2008, 6:29 pm #5

I have a concern regarding the posting of my street address in the Club Directory. I was recently the victim of identity fraud, via somebody who later went to prison for it and recently got out. As a result, several months ago I informed Craig Noland that I want to be in the Club Directory but without showing my street address. I don't mind showing my Name, City, State, # of Highpoints, etc.

Craig had basically stated it was either all or nothing. Either I choose to have my entire mailing address in the Club Directory, or I completely opt out of appearing in the Club Directory. I don't think that's fair, especially considering the seriousness of my situation. And I should be able to proudly display my membership along with other members in the Club Directory.

I know the ability is there. After all, family members don't have any addresses showing (granted, because of redundacy in most cases). I see no logical reason why this cannot be done in my case, as well.
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Is there anybody else I can discuss this with? I am a paying member of the club, and I believe a club should care for its members' safety and concerns.

Thanks.
trying to get 4th Q newsletter prepared today and rushed the previous post without my full identity...
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Joined: August 2nd, 2001, 8:13 pm

November 13th, 2008, 11:18 pm #6

I have a concern regarding the posting of my street address in the Club Directory. I was recently the victim of identity fraud, via somebody who later went to prison for it and recently got out. As a result, several months ago I informed Craig Noland that I want to be in the Club Directory but without showing my street address. I don't mind showing my Name, City, State, # of Highpoints, etc.

Craig had basically stated it was either all or nothing. Either I choose to have my entire mailing address in the Club Directory, or I completely opt out of appearing in the Club Directory. I don't think that's fair, especially considering the seriousness of my situation. And I should be able to proudly display my membership along with other members in the Club Directory.

I know the ability is there. After all, family members don't have any addresses showing (granted, because of redundacy in most cases). I see no logical reason why this cannot be done in my case, as well.
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Is there anybody else I can discuss this with? I am a paying member of the club, and I believe a club should care for its members' safety and concerns.

Thanks.
Personally, I am more concerned about the use of my email address(es) in various forum databases, like this one or the Mt. Whitney board to which I frequently contribute. That doesn't keep me from using them and clicking the "send responses to my email address" option on the Forum form, although the personal-message rubric that the Mt. Whitney board uses might be a better way of hiding my contact information while still allowing offline communications on an individual basis, as opposed to posting an open response back to the forum.

From the Club's viewpoint, having a published (paper) membership roster is very useful to folks who are trying to contact other Highpointers for information, advice or to set up trips. I strongly prefer to have my address available for other Club members and to be able to look up a mailing address for other members if I find someone who can help me out. Granted, someone can either manually transcribe the directory or run it through a scanner and OCR software but that's not the low-hanging fruit for identity thieves when there are so many open databases out there.

Indeed, somewhere in the dim past, Southwestern Bell (my home Internet provider) apparently had an unprotected copy of their subscriber database somewhere that spammers harvested it. My swbell.net email address is a spam magnet and I have never used it for any communications so it wasn't by my sending emails or putting a mailto: link on my website that it got "loose." Indeed, the dumber spammers (or those who don't care) actually send out their missives to a whole block of swbell.net email addresses, all in nice alphabetical order. I pity the customers who actually have to use their swbell.net addresses and can't just blithely ignore them like I do.

There are ways of anonymizing email contacts...click on any of the "contact" links on my web site. My address is hidden within a database elsewhere and climber.org's contact function sends me the emails. I can choose to respond and reveal my email address or not as I see fit. Of course, I have to have a certain level of faith in the guys at climber.org that they have sufficiently buried/encrypted my email address in their database so it isn't easily siphoned out by some web spider. (The MIT alumni association has a similar process so if you send something to my MIT alumni address, you only find out my "real" email address if I choose to respond.)

Let's face it...I've already accepted a certain level of risk by having my own web site in the first place. The fact that my name, address and phone number already appear in several printed forms between church, Scouts, my high school and college alumni info, etc., is a necessary part of belonging to and wanting to communicate with the groups to which I belong.



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Joined: March 28th, 2005, 10:24 pm

November 14th, 2008, 3:27 am #7

Whoa there. We truly appreciate the feedback, but I'm a little concerned when I read a comment, "I believe a club should care for its members' safety and concerns" Do you imply that we don't try to do everything possible? We do.

Also, what's this "I don't think that's fair" and "I see no logical reason why this cannot be done" ? Craig isn't getting paid to do this stuff. Craig works countless hours every week to keep the database up to date. This is a volunteer organization, and as such, we find the quickest and easiest way to bring the most value to the most people.

I too share your concern about identify theft, and about providing names and contact information (and even photos and stories) of our members. We are very strict about how people use this information, and we'd clamp down in a second if we knew about any use other than highpointing. If we only provided your name and town, it seems to me that it wouldn't take a minute to find your street address and even the names of your pets. We live in that kind of world. "1984"

Setting aside your concern as a member, imagine the visibility of the Club's Directors and Officers and Chairs. In this age of identify theft, it's a wonder anyone volunteers at all or joins any organization.

With our Club roster in a database, I suppose it's possible to do anything with it, such as creating a field to filter out street addresses, but those types of things require time and energy, and unless you're donating as much time as Craig does, I don't see it as fair that you request any more from the guy.

Regarding your comment, "Is there anybody else I can discuss this with?" have you noticed that there are four Officers and a Board of Directors in this Club? Perhaps a request to them is in order, although it all boils down to how much time our few volunteers have to serve our members.

And then there are the recent requests to add MORE contact information in the Directory (phones and emails) . . .

More comments appreciated, either in this Forum or emailed directly to the Club.
Nor did I ever bash on any Club Members, or the Club itself. I never would.

Rather than truly addressing my concerns, your post basically implies this as a "me against Craig Noland" or "me against the Club" issue. It isn't, so please don't try turning it into one.
It's a "me, a paying member of the Club, addressing a real concern" question.

You could have just informed me where to properly express those concerns further. My biggest hesitation with originally joining the Club was that I was told by multiple people for several years how some of the long-term Club Members were fairly elitist by not taking some other members' questions and concerns seriously (unless they were with the "in" crowd). Your response makes me think those people might have been correct. I really hope they are not correct, as I am a person who always helps others whenever I can and who always try to represent any Clubs, companies, or people I am involved with in a positive manner... and I hope for those around me to be like that, too. Since I joined the Club I have always been a proud Club Member, and I truly believe in the goals the Club represents.

Yes, I am very aware of the time and commitment it takes when volunteering for an organization. Especially one involving thousands of members. I don't need to be explained about that. I have no doubts Craig Noland works hard for the Club and its membership. I take nothing away from his, or anyone's, efforts.

And, yes, I am also aware there are other means of finding out street addresses (among other pieces of information).
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I want to be shown proudly in the Club Directory alongside my highpointing neighbors. Why should I hide my name, as if I am ashamed? I am a dedicated highpointer, I promote highpointing, and offer encouragement to other highpointers whenever I can.

I asked a very real question and concern, not just to Craig Noland but also on this forum. I understand the Club wants to do what's (as it interprets) best for the most members. It's not all about me, nor do I expect it to be. But I do expect representatives of the Club, which I help support and promote, to show empathy to a member's serious question instead of trying to make that member feel guilty for even asking it.

As a person who not only was a victim of identity theft but also a person who helped put the perpetrator in prison for it, this is a very real topic for me. If you ever experienced such an ordeal, such a violation of your personal life, you would understand where I'm coming from.
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Joined: March 28th, 2005, 10:24 pm

November 14th, 2008, 3:48 am #8

Personally, I am more concerned about the use of my email address(es) in various forum databases, like this one or the Mt. Whitney board to which I frequently contribute. That doesn't keep me from using them and clicking the "send responses to my email address" option on the Forum form, although the personal-message rubric that the Mt. Whitney board uses might be a better way of hiding my contact information while still allowing offline communications on an individual basis, as opposed to posting an open response back to the forum.

From the Club's viewpoint, having a published (paper) membership roster is very useful to folks who are trying to contact other Highpointers for information, advice or to set up trips. I strongly prefer to have my address available for other Club members and to be able to look up a mailing address for other members if I find someone who can help me out. Granted, someone can either manually transcribe the directory or run it through a scanner and OCR software but that's not the low-hanging fruit for identity thieves when there are so many open databases out there.

Indeed, somewhere in the dim past, Southwestern Bell (my home Internet provider) apparently had an unprotected copy of their subscriber database somewhere that spammers harvested it. My swbell.net email address is a spam magnet and I have never used it for any communications so it wasn't by my sending emails or putting a mailto: link on my website that it got "loose." Indeed, the dumber spammers (or those who don't care) actually send out their missives to a whole block of swbell.net email addresses, all in nice alphabetical order. I pity the customers who actually have to use their swbell.net addresses and can't just blithely ignore them like I do.

There are ways of anonymizing email contacts...click on any of the "contact" links on my web site. My address is hidden within a database elsewhere and climber.org's contact function sends me the emails. I can choose to respond and reveal my email address or not as I see fit. Of course, I have to have a certain level of faith in the guys at climber.org that they have sufficiently buried/encrypted my email address in their database so it isn't easily siphoned out by some web spider. (The MIT alumni association has a similar process so if you send something to my MIT alumni address, you only find out my "real" email address if I choose to respond.)

Let's face it...I've already accepted a certain level of risk by having my own web site in the first place. The fact that my name, address and phone number already appear in several printed forms between church, Scouts, my high school and college alumni info, etc., is a necessary part of belonging to and wanting to communicate with the groups to which I belong.


Thank you for your response. I appreciate it.

I agree, wholeheartedly. Having another member's mailing address can greatly assist with possible highpointing questions, concerns, and trips. And, who knows, there might come a time in the future where I even want to contact a fellow member for assistance or advice.
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I don't actually think some person or company is going to scan the Club Directory (although I guess it is possible). That is viewing this topic in terms of 'pre-theft'.

In my specific case, I not only was a victim of identity theft but I also was the one who caught him and helped put him in jail. He committed identity fraud and other (more-serious) crimes against multiple people, but I was the only victim who showed up for his hearings. According to the authorities, the others were either too scared or uncomfortable to make appearances. I did what I had to do to get this criminal off the streets. That was my choice, and I have no regrets about that choice. The criminal already knew the general region I live in, and I do not plan to move anytime soon. However, let's just say he was not a rocket scientist, either. He was not the type to search for personal information, but if he saw it available (in, let's say, a book or directory) he would take advantage of it.

We are only talking about a street address. Family members don't show street addresses in the Club Directory, regardless if they actually live with the primary member of the group. This is where the root of my question originally stemmed.

I know my concern/request might seem irrational to some people. But to somebody who lived through a traumatic ordeal, it seems very rational.

Anyway, thank you to those who cared enough to read this.
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Joined: April 27th, 2004, 6:37 pm

November 14th, 2008, 2:05 pm #9

Family Members are crossed referenced to the Highpointers' Membership they are associated with.

Unless it's unpublished as well.
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