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Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

June 30th, 2012, 7:30 pm #1

To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts. Jews then were Gods tools in carrying out Gods plan. Jews then should be venerated just as Jesus is because Jesus and Jews were required and caused by God to participate in the sacrifice. They were all doing Gods will and not their own.

Jesus was a Jew and to hate Jews means that Jesus is also hated. The church has historically persecuted Jews and only repented for their actions in 2011 with the pope acknowledging that not all Jews should be hated. Just those directly involved in the sacrifice of Jesus. Ignoring of course that they were charged directly by God to be and do what God wanted.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jews- ... ays-49267/

Why then have Christians historically hated Jews, and by inference, hate the Jew part of God/Jesus the Jew?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKg4HLsu ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

The weird twist to this history is that the Christian right who hates Jews the most, is now the ones pushing for funding of the Jewish homeland to fulfill prophesy.

Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Is the Christian right just funding Jews to help drive them to destruction at the hands of God?

Jews tend not to read the O. T. the way Christians do. Are Christian interpretations of Jewish text superior or inferior to the Jewish interpretation of their own myths?

Regards
DL
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Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

June 30th, 2012, 7:31 pm #2

I asked a well-informed Jewish friend to comment before I posted this and this is what he had to say.

Modern Jews and ancient Jews for one. I suppose you are concerned about modern Jewish opinion. Yes, some modern Jews are concerned that Christian Right support isn't for the best, that there is a hidden agenda to benefit Christian Right at the expense of Jews. Other modern Jews (particularly Israeli Right) don't care if there is a hidden agenda or not, they are happy to take anyone's support. These same cynical guys gave and took support from White S African racists (prior to Mandela liberation) and supported the White S African nuclear weapons program. Such people are typically atheist Israeli Jews BTW. Religious Jews generally distrust any Christians bearing gifts (they are Greeks of a sort anyway). Atheists Jews aren't particular, they will take support from anyone (see their behavior in the early Soviet Union). Modern Israel was founded by atheist socialist Jews (the Bund). Religious Jews prior to 1948 and some even prior to 1967 did not believe that Israel should be re-established, without the Messiah. Some religious Jews still believe this (Naturei Karta) and these Jews have cordial relations with Hamas. Such Jews of course would be anathema to the Christian Right. The Christian Right doesn't mind atheist Jews, because they believe all Jews atheist or not will be damned by G-d. Some of the Christian Right also believe that the Jews are not real Jews, only Gentiles are Jews (at least some are seen as such, such as the British Royal Family ... see Anglo-American Israelitism). Many Gentiles believe that modern Jews are of impure "race" anyway, or are even nephelim (angelic spawned demons). A good book on the death of Jesus (at least in literature if not in fact) is "Who Killed Jesus?" by John Dominic Crossan.

Actually I would say that to hate anyone, is to hate G-d ... so some of the verses of the Bible are clearly not inspired, because hate is talked about positively at times. It is possible that some verses are meant ironically. The other thing your scheme implies is that of Pauline predetermination. Paul clearly went beyond predestination to predetermination. He didn't believe in free will, and pointedly talked about his lack of free will, and resulting lack of responsibility, in the beginning of the Epistle to the Romans. In no way did Jesus ever talk in those terms, but then Paul wasn't a follower of the fictional synoptic Jesus (aka a historical Jesus), but of a gnostic angelic figure (vision on the road to Damascus) more like the Johannine Jesus. I don't believe the idea of a realistic Jesus even occurred to anyone until after the destruction of Jerusalem, which was after Paul's death. The realistic synoptic Jesus was turned into the historical Jesus by Christian argumentation. The actual Johannine gospel came last, but its ideas were first, having been written in reaction to the synoptic Jesus, who was written in reaction to the Gnostic Jesus aka Avalokiteshvara and the Gnostic Virgin Mary (Prajnaparamita).

There are lots of reasons for Christians to hate Jews and vice versa:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13855238

But I don't think it has ever been legitimate, that is ... it is an expression of sin not virtue. Christians and Muslims should especially value Jewish people, but they are violent, immoral, jealous, stupid (well that is the Jewish stereotype).

Shalom
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Tim
Tim

July 2nd, 2012, 4:27 am #3

the Pope is the leader of the Babylonian religious system today.
Vicar of Christ, as if Christ has an earthly Vicar or Successor.

The sacrifice of Jesus the Christ was part of God's plan and no Jews should be hated for participating in that historic event.

And Jesus knew he would be raised in 3 days and that's what he told the Apostles.

Matthew12:40
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Tim
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

July 2nd, 2012, 7:08 pm #4

Adam in the Bible began as a living soul and will wind up a life giving spirit:


The "son of Adam" is revealed as "David" through many generations but beginning with Abraham (father of many nations):

Jesus was called "son of God" , Son of David, and Son of man":


Son of God is his God consciousness; Son of David is his heart consciousness and Son of Adam/man is his "mind" consciousness .......thereby making all three OF ONE source, God:


these are phrases that explains levels of consciousness and not people:

Abraham is the consciousness of having the ONE TRUE God revealed and leaving Ur of the Chaldeas (later Babylon/confusion) to follow this revealed INNER consciousness of God:


Ur (light) of Chaldeas (clod breakers) means light that breaks into the dirt of our brain to find the deeper receptors of consciousness or those levels that can RECEIVE what the cortex or cerebral cortex can not receive:


once the brain is ploughed by the light entering deeper and deeper levels of consciousness, a place OPENS UP wherein the "will" usually located on the forehead, falls to the DEEP part of the brain (this is entering the cave of consciousness or Platos cave or the crevice of the serpent in the Bible (HUR)

the spirit/stars fall into the pit/deep to be transformed and RISE again....If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me:

the deep is also the belly of the whale where Jonah (DOVE) is dead for three days:

who is the dove?

Israel is the dove that is dead and comes to life in the POWER of the HOLY SPIRIT at Jesus baptism by John


and cleaves to Jesus


and these words all hold meaning of levels of consciousness that we experience within our own consciousness


David said, tho I make my bed in hell (belly of the whale) you are with me


Christ never leaves or forsakes Israel till he RAISES HER UP to be ONE WITH HIM


and then nothing can take them out of his hand


again, these words are all metaphor for consciousness


and consciousness is the ONLY REAL thing


this is why we need to find the HIGHEST LEVEL available to us

to face and overcome the deepest levels that keep us in hell or separated from our source........our father consciousness


the GOOD consciousness we all want to return to:
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Tim
Tim

July 2nd, 2012, 11:10 pm #5

If its not simple enough for a child to understand then there maybe a complex theology problem created by adults.

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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

July 3rd, 2012, 12:55 am #6

it is written a child shall lead them

and it is written we enter the Kingdom as a child or we can in no wise enter in

and it is written she gave birth to a "man-child" to rule the nations


a child will understand it and does understand it

the child that enters the kingdom is not the carnal one or sensual child

but...........here is the WONDER of the Bible

the stories are there to help those who don't have scientific minds or are not yet
a child who entered the Kingdom of heaven within them


the story of Jesus is true, but for the carnal mind it is a story one believes

to the NEW Man it is a REALITY within their own experience
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Tim
Tim

July 4th, 2012, 3:24 am #7

happens after Armageddon and after Jesus returns as King of kings and Lord of lords. And the animals of the earth no longer eat us nor each other but are all vegetarians.

Isaiah11:6
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. {cockatrice': or, adders}
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

This stuff happens for real Yvonne, it doesn't just happen indie you or me, it will happen weather we participate or not or weather we refuse it or not.

I don't think the Bible is just a spiritual head game.

Bro Tim
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