Understanding Genesis 1 & 2 - For Discussion

Understanding Genesis 1 & 2 - For Discussion

Joined: May 4th, 2010, 8:37 pm

May 4th, 2010, 8:55 pm #1

Briefly, here's how I read Genesis 1:1~5 based on my humble biblical understanding ....

Genesis 1:1 is just a preface -The Story of the "Beginning" of our physical world.
Genesis 1:2 narrates us the condition of the deep (dark -null & void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything physical is made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 the division / separation of Light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice that our first firmament of heaven is made only on the 2nd day (Genesis 1:6~8) and the making of our world (earth) started on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:9~10) not Genesis 1:1... am I correct or what?

Any other thought is welcome.....

God Bless
Last edited by 4Pillars on May 4th, 2010, 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 4th, 2010, 8:37 pm

May 4th, 2010, 9:45 pm #2

I believe there are numerous worlds made during the creation process... but there is a reason why I believe that the word used in Gen. 1:1 (KJV) specifically.... is Heaven and not Heavens (plural). In the context of the text, I see the narrative as saying:

In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth (Ground) was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness (Death) was upon the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.

This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.

God Bless
Last edited by 4Pillars on May 4th, 2010, 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

May 4th, 2010, 10:15 pm #3

Briefly, here's how I read Genesis 1:1~5 based on my humble biblical understanding ....

Genesis 1:1 is just a preface -The Story of the "Beginning" of our physical world.
Genesis 1:2 narrates us the condition of the deep (dark -null & void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything physical is made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 the division / separation of Light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice that our first firmament of heaven is made only on the 2nd day (Genesis 1:6~8) and the making of our world (earth) started on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:9~10) not Genesis 1:1... am I correct or what?

Any other thought is welcome.....

God Bless
I think people can make whatever they want out of it ... if it turns their own cranks but .... Genesis ch. 1 and 2 are just 2 different versions of the same old myth. That myth was borrowed from Babylon when a group of Jewish scholars were transported to "Iraq" after the capture of Judea by the Babylonians, circa 595 BC. About 50 years later, (under the NEW conquerors -the Persians), they returned to their homeland and rebuilt the temple. They picked up a lot of Babylonian tradition during their "captivity" in Babylon.

You see this kind of comparison -juxtaposition- putting side by side, very often in the Bible. People were much more segregated back then because they didn't have the easy means of travel we have today. Because of that segregation and different political pressures in the different locations, they often developed different versions of same cultural beliefs and stories ... in those different regions.

You especially see the "history" stories being juxtaposed in the books of Kings and Chronicles. One version was from the north side -Israel's- and the other version was from the south side -Judea's version.

The different versions were PURPOSELY put together -collated, if you will- by Hebrew scribes and scholars in order to PRESERVE their entire tradition as best possible. They KNEW that the versions often clashed and contradicted each other but that didn't matter to them in the over-all picture. They have OTHER writings to hash out the "real" truth of these matters .... their Talmud.

This is maybe kind of similar to historians TODAY ... pulling together ALL the stories they can dig up on WW2. A LOT of things happened in WW2 which make for a very interesting story that is full of lessons but ... nobody at that time found it particularly interesting or important to get all of it written down correctly and be properly document. That job falls to later historians. So later historians write down the different versions and juxtapose the stories in their own story ... which leaves a lot of conflicts, clashes and contradictions in the overall story. This doesn't matter to the reader though, because the reader REALIZES that he's not reading gospel truth; he's merely being presented by a LOT of information which he didn't know before ...and can now put together for himself, for his own understanding ... of what most likely, "probably" happened.

Then time passes. Over time, some of that history is no longer "acceptable" for teaching to younger generations -maybe for politically correct reasons. So they revise the history, edit it, dress it up some ... to provide a more "pure" picture of their own side. This happened with the Bible too. A lot of books were removed and dropped and got lost. We only see them REFERENCED in the canon we have today.

And over time, the revised and cleaned presentation comes to be the "BIBLE" of correct historical presentation which is then used for referencing and dictating correct projected behavior. And then people try to "reconcile" everything written down with everything else written down ... as though there WERE NO contradictions in the original stories and versions.

You can DO that ... if it makes you feel good but ... it's just not true then.

-Vince

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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

May 4th, 2010, 10:55 pm #4

Jews tell us that elohim in Genesis I is the God of NATURE and Jehovah in Genesis 2 is the "GOD ABOVE NATURE" the God of the supernatural:


Genesis 1 is the creation of everything, including Man but here man was not yet in Gods image and likeness.......only in Gods (elohim's-nature's) image...

now both of these are ONE IN PURPOSE but two in function......

in chapter 2 we see the LORD (Jehovah) God (elohim) making MAN in his likeness as well by putting his own spirit within Adam:

in Genesis 1, elohim created by the "ruach" (spirit)

in Genesis 2, Jehovah made the vain shew MAN a "living soul" by adding the "Neshama" or breath of God in his nostrils:


in Genesis 1, we see a creature who is created by the spirit but this man doesn't have the "breath of God" IN HIM even though he is made with the ruach/spirit:



its like making something with your hands....your creativity

and making something that you also PUT YOUR LIFE into.....








Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


notice elohim said "let us make man" in our image and likeness but then it says, ....


Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

he only created man in his image (tselem-vain shew); not yet a FULL MAN who is LIKE God:


Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.


Gen 1:29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, every green herb for meat: and it was so.


Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.







GENESIS 2



Gen 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.


Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.


Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.


Gen 2:4 ¶ These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,


Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.


ME: Notice there was not yet A MAN to till the ground......

Man wasn't yet LIKE GOD......who is able to go deep into the ground, our brain is both earth (eretz) and GROUND (adamah-within man):

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.


Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed (YATSAR-form, fashion, sqeezing into shape) man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Gen 2:8 ¶ And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed (YATSAR).


the WORD YATSAR is not in Genesis 1, only in Genesis 2


in Genesis 1, Elohim made (asah) adam/man


in Genesis 2 Jehovah FORMED (yatsar) adam


the word asah is made but also "yielding" as in yielding fruit:


it is used in "let us make" (asah) man in our image after OUR likeness

but he doesn't make adam in the likeness here but only in the image.....


the likeness is after he is formed, yatsar, squeezed in a NEW WAY to be LIKE Jehovah:


the word "made" (asah) actually continues till Genesis 2:2, 3, 4, and verse 18 when he makes (asah) a helpmeet for man:


the word "formed" yatsar is also the word for "POTTER" who forms the vessel/soul:


it is found a lot less in the Bible and always implies a higher FORMATION than just making something


like here





Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's(YATSAR) vessel.

Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.




and here





Psa 33:13 The LORD looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.

Psa 33:14 From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.

Psa 33:15 He fashioneth (YATSAR) their hearts alike; he considereth all their works.


and here......



Isa 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's (YATSAR) 3335 clay : for shall the work say of him that made it, He made 6213 me not? or shall the thing framed (yetser) say of him that framed (YATsAR) it, He had no understanding (biyn-bina)?




and here praise God




Isa 43:1 ¶ But now thus saith the LORD that created (bara) thee, O Jacob, and he that formed (YATSAR) thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called [thee] by thy name; thou [art] mine.


ME: notice that he created Jacob, but he FORMED Israel out of Jacob.....




Isa 43:2 When thou passest through the waters, I [will be] with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.


Isa 43:3 For I [am] the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt [for] thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.




finally for this purpose






Isa 43:7 [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed (YATSAR) him; yea, I have made him.


Isa 43:8 ¶ Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.


Isa 43:9 Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth.


Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.


Isa 43:11 I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour.


Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God.


Isa 43:13 Yea, before the day [was] I [am] he; and [there is] none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?


Isa 43:14 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry [is] in the ships.


Isa 43:15 I [am] the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: May 4th, 2010, 8:37 pm

May 4th, 2010, 11:29 pm #5

Genesis 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days.

That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail.

What is amazing is that God wrote our History more than 3K years ago, and the events at the end of the 6th Day are still Future. IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1

The Un-Scriptural idea, that the 6 Creative Days and the 1 Day of Rest, are 24 hour periods of Time, is refuted by Scripture. The 7th Day has no End.

But that's just my humble biblical opinion.

God Bless
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Joined: May 4th, 2010, 8:37 pm

May 4th, 2010, 11:35 pm #6

Our limited life on this planet is but a small measure of our Eternal life in Heaven. God "Creates" only 3 times in Gen 1.

The first time He "creates" is when He speaks and the air, dust, and water are formed. Air, dust, and water were made in the beginning, and will be in Heaven, eternally. Everything God "creates" is for Eternity.

The 2nd time God "creates" in Gen 1, is when every living creature that moveth, was created from the water, on the 5th Day. Genesis 1:21 Does this mean that "every living creature that moveth" is created Eternally?

The 3rd and final time God "creates" in Gen 1 is when mankind is Created in God's Image, or in Christ, for this is man's Spiritual Creation. Man's Spiritual Creation is for Eternity. We will live forever with Jesus, in Heaven.

Since God is the SAME, yesterday, today, and forever, when God "creates", it is an Eternal Creation. God doesn't make mistakes. God's Perfect World is Eternal, His innocent creatures from the water are Eternal, and regenerated mankind is Eternal.

God Bless
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

May 4th, 2010, 11:38 pm #7

Genesis 1 is an Outline of ALL of the events leading to the Creation of the Perfect Heaven. Most of the rest of the Bible refers to the present 6th Day, but ALL of the Bible refers to the events of God's 6 Creative Days.

That's why we are taken back to the 3rd Day at Gen 2:4. The narrative is adding details to the events listed in Gen 1. Both accounts agree totally and in detail.

What is amazing is that God wrote our History more than 3K years ago, and the events at the end of the 6th Day are still Future. IOW, God told the complete story of the Creation in Genesis 1 and beginning at Gen 2:4, we begin to learn the details of the events of Genesis 1

The Un-Scriptural idea, that the 6 Creative Days and the 1 Day of Rest, are 24 hour periods of Time, is refuted by Scripture. The 7th Day has no End.

But that's just my humble biblical opinion.

God Bless
the seventh day is the ONE WE ENTER to enter our rest......as God rested, so it is ENTERING HIS REST


his Sabbath.......no matter when our HOUR comes, it is entering OUR/HIS REST


from our works as he rested from his

I like it:)


so then would you say that Jehovah in Genesis two is FORMING MAN to enter his rest, the rest that God rested in:

I mean Jesus said the Father works and so do I, showing that when we enter HIS REST, his WORK IN US continues.........by making a "NEW VESSEL" a vessel of honour

it is written as long as it is CALLED TODAY......there will be a rest for the "people of God":

right?

today is still here.....for those who need to enter

for those who have ENTERED, it is "time is no more"


every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: May 4th, 2010, 8:37 pm

May 4th, 2010, 11:58 pm #8

As I have mentioned before, first chapter of the Bible tells the complete History of how God created the Perfect Heaven. God wrote our History, before the events are complete. At the end of the present 6th Day, God's Perfect Heaven will be Finished or brought to Perfection. Then the prophecy of Gen.2:3 will be fulfilled and only then God will Rest -- that is, He will Cease to Create from ALL his works which he created and made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from ALL his work which God created and made.

Today most Christians believe the the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are still working on his final creations. In fact, Jesus is still preparing a place for us to live in - when this world is burned - New Heavens & New Earth (Rev. 21). Since all we have is "today", those who will live forever, must be born again while it is still called, Today. Today is the only Day of Salvation.Therefore, today, we still remain on the 6th creative day of God.

The Bible was written for the past, present, and future (i.e. Book of Revelation). It is relevant for today, and tomorrow. Written by the Supreme Intelligence, it's just too hard for poor ignorant unbelievers (athiests) to comprehend. The only way for them to understand is to become a Christian. JMHO

God Bless
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Joined: May 4th, 2010, 8:37 pm

May 5th, 2010, 1:36 am #9

the seventh day is the ONE WE ENTER to enter our rest......as God rested, so it is ENTERING HIS REST


his Sabbath.......no matter when our HOUR comes, it is entering OUR/HIS REST


from our works as he rested from his

I like it:)


so then would you say that Jehovah in Genesis two is FORMING MAN to enter his rest, the rest that God rested in:

I mean Jesus said the Father works and so do I, showing that when we enter HIS REST, his WORK IN US continues.........by making a "NEW VESSEL" a vessel of honour

it is written as long as it is CALLED TODAY......there will be a rest for the "people of God":

right?

today is still here.....for those who need to enter

for those who have ENTERED, it is "time is no more"

.... in the image and likeness of God, spiritually (Gen. 1:26-27).... BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

IOW, based on the Scripture, Adam was physically made (formed) on the 3rd day (Gen. 2:7)... before he was created in the image and likeness of God, spiritually, on the 6th day (Gen. 1:26-27).

This Creation process or event - Gen 1:26-27 - took place long after Adam had already committed his "original sin"; long after Cain had already killed Abel; and only after men began calling upon the name of the Lord (Gen. 4:26).

1Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. v46 Howbeit that was NOT FIRST which is spiritual, but that which is NATURAL; and AFTERWARD that which is spiritual.

But that's just my biblical understanding - contrary to popular belief.

God Bless


Last edited by 4Pillars on May 5th, 2010, 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 8th, 2007, 6:53 am

May 5th, 2010, 3:37 am #10

Briefly, here's how I read Genesis 1:1~5 based on my humble biblical understanding ....

Genesis 1:1 is just a preface -The Story of the "Beginning" of our physical world.
Genesis 1:2 narrates us the condition of the deep (dark -null & void) before the world was.
Genesis 1:3 documents us the bringing forth of the Light before anything physical is made; before the world was.
Genesis 1:4 the division / separation of Light from darkness - the first work of old.
Genesis 1:5 The evening & the morning, the first day.

Notice that our first firmament of heaven is made only on the 2nd day (Genesis 1:6~8) and the making of our world (earth) started on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:9~10) not Genesis 1:1... am I correct or what?

Any other thought is welcome.....

God Bless
please feel free to come and discuss at my forum if you wish.....


http://www.network54.com/Forum/650605/

no attacks are allowed and discussion is based on scripture...not personal interpretation.....or fundy brow beating.....

be blessed

gerard
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