The Dawkins Delusion? Available From Amazon.com

The Dawkins Delusion? Available From Amazon.com

Joined: June 13th, 2006, 12:37 am

July 24th, 2010, 11:25 pm #1

http://www.amazon.com/Dawkins-Delusion- ... 763&sr=8-1

Pastor Jack Howell

"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



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Arthur Dent
Arthur Dent

July 25th, 2010, 2:15 am #2

Its been noted that you keep dropping these one line purile ads, shame you havent got the guts to go in and bat for your delusion.

Do you really think anyone pays note to your silly ideas?
I find some of them silly enough to be funny.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

July 25th, 2010, 2:53 am #3

http://www.amazon.com/Dawkins-Delusion- ... 763&sr=8-1

Pastor Jack Howell

"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



MY BLOG


Proper Principles of Bible Study



<img alt="Documents" src="http://www.scribd.com/images/badges/but ... uments.gif">











1.0 out of 5 stars Disappointing...even for a Christian, February 11, 2008
By C. Whitsett (San Diego, CA)
(REAL NAME)

This review is from: The Dawkins Delusion?: Atheist Fundamentalism and the Denial of the Divine (Hardcover)

As a Christian who takes this debate seriously I am almost insulted at the level of argument that is presented by the McGraths. Since reading the God Delusion I had been hoping someone would take on Dawkins. I was extremely disappointed to find that this book falls far short of its claim to do exactly that. I can't say that every one of Dawkins' points are well founded...but at least they are presented clearly and directly. Time after time the McGraths avoid, ignore, side-step, misunderstand or manipulate what seem like fairly straightforward points from Dawkins. Instead of countering Dawkins' arguments, their consistently poor reasoning seems to add weight to his stance. I can't help but ask why they have such a hard time addressing Dawkins' points directly. Is it naivety or inability? Either way, the believer's side of the debate is weakened by such a lackluster book.

House of Free Speech

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
~Bertrand Russell






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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

July 25th, 2010, 2:54 am #4


40 of 59 people found the following review helpful:
1.0 out of 5 stars The McGrath Rant, June 22, 2007
By Colhman "Mathematician" (Dublin, Ireland) - See all my reviews

This review is from: The Dawkins Delusion?: Atheist Fundamentalism and the Denial of the Divine (Hardcover)

This is probably the most accidentally ironic book I have ever read. The McGraths (or most likely just the male one) rant on and on about Dawkins. They state that Dawkins is a fundamentalist and dogmatic atheist about 200,000,000 times in the book. They also repeatedly point out his lack of scientific backing for his claims. I wonder if any other readers of this book saw the irony as I did, about how the McGraths use basically no scientific evidence themselves to back up their own points. They are extremely dogmatic in their view of Dawkins.

This book is basically just a huge personal attack on Dawkins, repeatedly stating how "inadequate" and "out of depth" Dawkins is, regarding the subject matter. Hm, I would most certainly be inclined to think that Dawkins has established himself a lot more strongly on the intellectual front than Alister McGrath, and from reading both their last books, this has evidently proved to be plenty enough to successfully argue his (Dawkins) religious beliefs, and the reasons behind them.

The McGraths don't really take all that much away from Dawkins' arguments, especially due to the fact that they deal with so little of them. I remember the McGraths' silly little disclaimer at the start, about how they were only going to tackle some of the arguments blah blah blah, but this is a very ridiculous disclaimer. It's quite obvious that the arguments chosen were carefully handpicked to show the worst in Dawkins, bring up his weakest points, but even still the McGraths failed to tackle these properly. Most of their "counter" arguments consisted of being condescending towards Dawkins first, obviously to instill a sense of "Oh, apparently Richie is out of his depth, therefore anything said against him must be correct", and then they go on most of the time to sort of sidestep his main points, and stick in a little theistic view of the same topic, or else just quote someone more capable.

All in all, this is a terrible book, and takes hardly anything away from The God Delusion. In my personal opinion, the McGraths have just written this book to take advantage of all the Christians who have read or heard about The God Delusion, obviously due to the fact that these Christians will need something to restrengthen their faith after The God Delusion, and will be willing to spend money for this purpose. I don't know how any publisher could have thought this book was good enough to print, apart from the possible profit due to the reasons just stated. Then of course I saw this wasn't even necessary, after we see who the publishers were. They probably fall into the category already stated also.

House of Free Speech

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
~Bertrand Russell






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Arthur Dent
Arthur Dent

July 25th, 2010, 7:19 am #5

but only for people like Jack who can only operate this level. When you dont have an argument, attack the person.

I find it worth pointing out that Dawkins points are scientifically valid whether he exists at all or not. Even though he obviously does, it wouldnt matter if he didnt.


On the other hand, his points include the counter observation that everything for Christians hinges on whether their god exists, which is highly unlikely. It does matter to them if they cant establish his existance, but they shirk away from that task anyway with such waffle as this.


Yes, the Dawkins delusion is pitched at the level for creationists, which is just as well, as no one else would find it useful. Jack, evern though I'd doubt you'd buy it, you'd get more out of it than anyone else would.




Does Jack normally trash forums with such items (showing a huge inferiority complex in the process) or am I being especially blessed? (also showing his huge inferiority complex)


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Joined: June 13th, 2006, 12:37 am

July 25th, 2010, 11:27 am #6

From a phony wannabe "university professor" who can't even use proper English! Actually, you are sounding more and more like some 15-18 year old spoiled brat who desperately wants to think he's a know-it-all. You gave me another good laugh, phony.

Pastor Jack Howell

"Some bring God's curse on them by marking off part of the Bible, calling it erroneous, uninspired, less than the very Word of God." - Dr. John R. Rice

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God to salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." (Romans 1:16)



MY BLOG


Proper Principles of Bible Study



<img alt="Documents" src="http://www.scribd.com/images/badges/but ... uments.gif">












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Joined: September 30th, 2009, 7:55 pm

July 26th, 2010, 6:39 pm #7


40 of 59 people found the following review helpful:
1.0 out of 5 stars The McGrath Rant, June 22, 2007
By Colhman "Mathematician" (Dublin, Ireland) - See all my reviews

This review is from: The Dawkins Delusion?: Atheist Fundamentalism and the Denial of the Divine (Hardcover)

This is probably the most accidentally ironic book I have ever read. The McGraths (or most likely just the male one) rant on and on about Dawkins. They state that Dawkins is a fundamentalist and dogmatic atheist about 200,000,000 times in the book. They also repeatedly point out his lack of scientific backing for his claims. I wonder if any other readers of this book saw the irony as I did, about how the McGraths use basically no scientific evidence themselves to back up their own points. They are extremely dogmatic in their view of Dawkins.

This book is basically just a huge personal attack on Dawkins, repeatedly stating how "inadequate" and "out of depth" Dawkins is, regarding the subject matter. Hm, I would most certainly be inclined to think that Dawkins has established himself a lot more strongly on the intellectual front than Alister McGrath, and from reading both their last books, this has evidently proved to be plenty enough to successfully argue his (Dawkins) religious beliefs, and the reasons behind them.

The McGraths don't really take all that much away from Dawkins' arguments, especially due to the fact that they deal with so little of them. I remember the McGraths' silly little disclaimer at the start, about how they were only going to tackle some of the arguments blah blah blah, but this is a very ridiculous disclaimer. It's quite obvious that the arguments chosen were carefully handpicked to show the worst in Dawkins, bring up his weakest points, but even still the McGraths failed to tackle these properly. Most of their "counter" arguments consisted of being condescending towards Dawkins first, obviously to instill a sense of "Oh, apparently Richie is out of his depth, therefore anything said against him must be correct", and then they go on most of the time to sort of sidestep his main points, and stick in a little theistic view of the same topic, or else just quote someone more capable.

All in all, this is a terrible book, and takes hardly anything away from The God Delusion. In my personal opinion, the McGraths have just written this book to take advantage of all the Christians who have read or heard about The God Delusion, obviously due to the fact that these Christians will need something to restrengthen their faith after The God Delusion, and will be willing to spend money for this purpose. I don't know how any publisher could have thought this book was good enough to print, apart from the possible profit due to the reasons just stated. Then of course I saw this wasn't even necessary, after we see who the publishers were. They probably fall into the category already stated also.

House of Free Speech

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
~Bertrand Russell





All in all, this is a terrible book, and takes hardly anything away from The God Delusion. In my personal opinion, the McGraths have just written this book to take advantage of all the Christians who have read or heard about The God Delusion, obviously due to the fact that these Christians will need something to restrengthen their faith after The God Delusion, and will be willing to spend money for this purpose.

-----------------------------------------------
"I am not absolutely positive there is no god. Only in the sense that I'm not absolutely positive there is no large china teapot in orbit in the solar system." -- Richard Dawkins
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

July 27th, 2010, 1:49 pm #8

but you are also defending what you don't yet know:

nobody knows till they KNOW and then they will realize its UNLIKE anything eye has seen and ear has heard, even those of Christians

but Christians will know the language and have the FAITH in the God who reveals himself, while those who heckled and spoke in ignorance of what they didn't know either, will be left with having to EAT CROW (nasty birds):

nobody knows till they know

and as a Christian you most certainly will go through stages of DEFENDING the wrong twist of reality till its all revealed; but so what? both sides will realize that GOD ALONE will be RIGHT in that day.....and no man will be able to claim that they did anything but LIVE in his presence without 'knowing' what and who God is:

as we find more and more reality we are looking more and more at the backside of God, hindsight

when we see face to face, we will be LOOKING at GOD IN THE NOW, in the present moment and this blows all our minds for they are too small to hold such a great light and knowledge:
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

July 27th, 2010, 2:57 pm #9

But about using sound arguments, and not biting off more than one can chew.

The only person I can "prove" God to is myself. I know that.

The only person I can "prove" evolution to is myself. I know that.

I also know that God and evolution are not mutually exclusive.
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

July 27th, 2010, 3:19 pm #10

yes we have to prove God to ourselves but God is there to help us every step of the way or we would never get there

its like a child trying to prove that his parents are right; both the child and parent are part of the equation:

evolution within species may be right like different dogs come from a certain dog, and cats etc

but I don't believe that one kind of seed can evolve to a different seed:

God made the seeds or brought them here from another place

and from there, it may have evolved within that species

as for before creation, before MAN is made, who knows how long the earth was here


it is written that the earth was without form and void....


Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.



Yet Jeremiah sees the same thing here...showing that this is an INNER REVELATION given to those who are meant to PERCEIVE the beginning of all creation, meaning HOW GOD WORKS WITHIN THE CREATION to MAKE REALITY FOR US to perceive....

lets read a little of it...



Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.


going back a few verses.....to show this is his revelation of bringing forth the TRUTH of all creation, the judgment where God comes to reveal the REALITY BEHIND what we normally see and hear....



as always, the prophet or the one who is experiencing God....he speaks as an oracle for God, for the things God wants to speak to the SOUL that is experiencing these things within it.....



Jer 4:19 ¶ My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.


Jer 4:20 Destruction upon destruction is cried; for the whole land is spoiled: suddenly are my tents spoiled, [and] my curtains in a moment.


Jer 4:21 How long shall I see the standard, [and] hear the sound of the trumpet?


Jer 4:22 For my people [is] foolish, they have not known me; they [are] sottish children, and they have none understanding: they [are] wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.


Jer 4:23 ¶ I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light.


Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.


Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.


Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger.


Jer 4:27 ¶ For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

ME: this happens within so the prophet is assured that even though everything is LOST TO HIM within him, God will not fully destroy him...in fact this is the END before the NEXT BEGINNING that is revealed to those who then understand they are the "sons of God", the ones who experience themselves of being Begotten by him:

but they are begotten THROUGH CHRIST, which is revealed in the NEW TESTAMENT....


Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken [it], I have purposed [it], and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.




now for the proof that God made everything after its own kind and that he may have brought it from somewhere else





Gen 2:4 ¶ These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,


Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and [there was] not a man to till the ground.


Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.


Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Gen 2:8 ¶ And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.


Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


ME: we know that man didn't last in Eden/pleasure of God, but was cast out from the face of God: (knowing his source NOW)

yet there would be a restoration through the experience of the BUD

Isa 61:11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.



the word bud is tsemach, a sprout, a branch, a growth, a process, a shoot (MESSIAH FROM THE DAVIDIC TREE)


also found here...as BRANCH





Jer 23:5 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.


Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.



and here....





Zec 3:8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.


Zec 3:9 For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone [shall be] seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.


Zec 3:10 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.







every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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