SPiritual topic...;-)....Pearls before swine was questioned below...

SPiritual topic...;-)....Pearls before swine was questioned below...

Joined: March 8th, 2007, 6:53 am

July 29th, 2010, 12:25 am #1



people always take personal offence to that passage....i suppose being compared to a dog can certainly not be the most flattering thing ever,...but...

I think a good answer to the biblical ...question asked below to what a dog is can be found....

is that hard to discern personal agenda....from honest seeking?

or...

have you ever known in life...you are being asked something....when the person is asking already having a hardened heart and is reallllly asking to suit this agenda?

no?

i think most have.....

also...relative to these forums....after a decade....is it so unclear to whom casting there pearls to....would amount to casting them before swine?

to the people with those agendas...sure....no answer will satisfy them...because of those preconceived.....'issues' they have which is why they ask in the first place.

seeing as this was asked....this is my belief on this.....

now say if someone new was on board asking an entirely different position i personally would have....

but please....many try to forget.,...when we see the same people asking the same people the same things......after a decade or more....

who is kidding whom?? no need to confuse the simple here....ya KNOW?

by know.....some should stop acting like they really are interested in answers from 'christians'....and start being honest to WHY they 'ask' in the first place.

imv


pearls are precious things....and are NOT indestructable.....people's own faith can be destroyed when they play the games of dogs.....when they allow their precious pearls to be trampled by thopse who just want to do ONLY THAT....and nothing else. I have seen some lose their spiritual vision on these sights feauding with those with the idea ONLY to show christians how WRONG they are....and some things can be....irrepareable.....and not be regained.......

so yes....casting pearls before the spiritual swine can have a great cost...


and YES too...there are many dogs on these forums....the kind of dogs i mean whom seek only to prove that Jesus is NOT the Son of G-d or the only way to the truth and salvation.

Can wisdom...b e wasted on fools?....for sure.......and we all too can be equally foolish in wasting saying things TO fools/dogs.....when we should KNOW...from YEARS upon YEARS on these forums....that it is nothing but a waste of time.

HOW...isn't that casting pearls before swine???

it is.

so much intellectual and spiritual dishonesty on these forums......pearls before swine.

oh...did someone ask about this???
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

July 29th, 2010, 1:55 am #2

is about all I see in your post, there Gerry.

What's the idea behind "casting pearls before swine"?

The swine have no concept of the value of pearls and so they just trample them into their underlay.

Is that really true on THIS forum? I don't see it. I HAVE seen it on other forums though. It's like ... you go to great lengths to post something you consider to be very important and you put a lot of work into it to make sure you get all the facts straight when you post. The replies to that consist of nothing but crap. No one -not a single soul- "GETS" the message or gist of what you post and the thread goes in all directions which have absolutely nothing to do with the topic header. THAT, to me .... is casting pearls before swine. It's not that swine are inherently BAD ... it's that they're totally ignorant.

What YOU describe on the other hand, is people saying things and getting questioned on what they say. They can't answer ... they get mad ... they insult for awhile ... and then withdraw. Should posters then ... STOP asking questions? Just to be "polite" ... avoid any and all hard questioning?

You see, the people who are asking the questions aren't ignorant! They want to know. The other people who MAKE their sweeping claims or show their bigotry etc. don't WANT to be held accountable for what they say and claim. Should they be treated with kid-gloves so they can continue to spread their floff unchecked?

-Vince
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

July 29th, 2010, 2:11 am #3

The larger question was how do you reconcile "spreading the gospel" with "not casting pearls before swine". It seems these two commands are contradictory.

Your answer below was bang on Vince, because it reconciled, by making the distinction between the outer and inner mysteries. The exoteric versus the esoteric.


Really, you can't
July 27 2010 at 4:49 PM
Vince (Login MoxiFox)
Von Klumpen


Response to Pearls swine, dogs holy
Because THAT spreading of the gospel, spoken of in the NTestament was exoteric. It was understood that the inner mysteries -which were not supposed to be shared publicly- were to be reserved for the inner enlightened group. If those inner mysteries were shared publicly, it was equivalent to throwing pearls before swine.

You could even argue that Paul's letters to the churches were never intended to be shared with the world at large. They were specifically addressed to the churches.

-Vince
Last edited by Oscar50 on July 29th, 2010, 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

July 29th, 2010, 2:38 am #4



people always take personal offence to that passage....i suppose being compared to a dog can certainly not be the most flattering thing ever,...but...

I think a good answer to the biblical ...question asked below to what a dog is can be found....

is that hard to discern personal agenda....from honest seeking?

or...

have you ever known in life...you are being asked something....when the person is asking already having a hardened heart and is reallllly asking to suit this agenda?

no?

i think most have.....

also...relative to these forums....after a decade....is it so unclear to whom casting there pearls to....would amount to casting them before swine?

to the people with those agendas...sure....no answer will satisfy them...because of those preconceived.....'issues' they have which is why they ask in the first place.

seeing as this was asked....this is my belief on this.....

now say if someone new was on board asking an entirely different position i personally would have....

but please....many try to forget.,...when we see the same people asking the same people the same things......after a decade or more....

who is kidding whom?? no need to confuse the simple here....ya KNOW?

by know.....some should stop acting like they really are interested in answers from 'christians'....and start being honest to WHY they 'ask' in the first place.

imv


pearls are precious things....and are NOT indestructable.....people's own faith can be destroyed when they play the games of dogs.....when they allow their precious pearls to be trampled by thopse who just want to do ONLY THAT....and nothing else. I have seen some lose their spiritual vision on these sights feauding with those with the idea ONLY to show christians how WRONG they are....and some things can be....irrepareable.....and not be regained.......

so yes....casting pearls before the spiritual swine can have a great cost...


and YES too...there are many dogs on these forums....the kind of dogs i mean whom seek only to prove that Jesus is NOT the Son of G-d or the only way to the truth and salvation.

Can wisdom...b e wasted on fools?....for sure.......and we all too can be equally foolish in wasting saying things TO fools/dogs.....when we should KNOW...from YEARS upon YEARS on these forums....that it is nothing but a waste of time.

HOW...isn't that casting pearls before swine???

it is.

so much intellectual and spiritual dishonesty on these forums......pearls before swine.

oh...did someone ask about this???
The antics and personalities of the forums have troubled you as of late, that much is clear.

But to paraphrase a recent post: Have there been any acts of murder, rape, assault? Has anyone been tragically injured, maimed, or caught a terminal illness? Have any laws or ethics been broken? Sure there are some heated discussions, long-term arguments, petty insults and the like, but is anyone truly injured other than an occasional bruised ego?

Considering that participation in the forums is completely voluntary (everyone freely chooses to interact & participate, even in the negative relationships) I find your concerns to resolve long-term arguments and personality conflicts to be rather odd. A noble ideal, no doubt. But nothing I've ever experienced or learned about real people leads me to believe that ideal has any practical merits.

We all choose our reactions & responses, consciously or otherwise. I'm at a loss to understand this particular reaction.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

July 29th, 2010, 3:25 am #5

The larger question was how do you reconcile "spreading the gospel" with "not casting pearls before swine". It seems these two commands are contradictory.

Your answer below was bang on Vince, because it reconciled, by making the distinction between the outer and inner mysteries. The exoteric versus the esoteric.


Really, you can't
July 27 2010 at 4:49 PM
Vince (Login MoxiFox)
Von Klumpen


Response to Pearls swine, dogs holy
Because THAT spreading of the gospel, spoken of in the NTestament was exoteric. It was understood that the inner mysteries -which were not supposed to be shared publicly- were to be reserved for the inner enlightened group. If those inner mysteries were shared publicly, it was equivalent to throwing pearls before swine.

You could even argue that Paul's letters to the churches were never intended to be shared with the world at large. They were specifically addressed to the churches.

-Vince
Probably give a deeper insight into the "inner mystery" stuff that exists in the NTestament. While I don't believe that Christianity stemmed from the Qumran community, the different branches of Judaic religion shared many common trends.

It was (apparently -since I haven't personally studied the DSS) a problem in the Qumran community as well: how to gain new converts without befriending the "heathen" to such an extent that the religious convictions became tainted or diluted. They appear to have done it in stages ... much like Mormons do today. "Milk before meat." Get them in first, get them baptized, get them involved on a superficial but rigorous level so that they forget their former independent life ... and then gradually sift them down to find the reliable ones and bring them into the inner circle.

It seems that no way you cut it ... it always has to incorporate a good deal of hypocrisy. The love and befriending isn't genuine; it's agenda driven. A former friend must become instantly disposable and cast off ... if he turns out to be unfaithful to the cause.

But you know, the "inner mysteries" are probably not all that mysterious today. Those people had a big project on their plate and that was to become independent of foreign rule. If they somehow managed to achieve that, their next big hurdle was to get unity amongst themselves. Josephus wrote that when the Jews THOUGHT they were free enough of Roman rule, circa 68 AD, they immediately turned against each other and indulged in a slaughter that surpassed that of the invading Roman armies following. Their job/their agenda was largely one of changing attitude amongst the zealous factions.

Well, today we don't have that kind of thing in our western culture any more. Sure, we have silly word wars between Conservative and Liberal factions but not to such a degree that we'd go out and slaughter each other. Thus, the job that early Christians set out to accomplish ... HAS been accomplished.

What then are modern Christians going to "preach" about? Just about Jesus dying on the cross to save the world from sin ... if/when people believe it? Then what? Once people believe this ... what comes next? Nothing .... right? So there ISN'T any content or anything mysterious to be talking about or to be throwing in front of swine. The message is ALREADY known by most of the world. It may not be accepted by most but it's known by most.

-Vince
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

July 29th, 2010, 3:35 am #6


Folks claiming that they're "spreading the Good News of the Gospel" are hardly doing such a thing anymore. Instead folks are more often peddling their own spin, agenda, doctrine, or church propaganda under the guise of "spreading the Good News". It's more about recruitment, numbers, or in the worst cases self-validation than about anything else.

It's sadly unfortunate that we're in such a state.
Quote
Like
Share

arthur Dent
arthur Dent

July 29th, 2010, 5:22 am #7

The larger question was how do you reconcile "spreading the gospel" with "not casting pearls before swine". It seems these two commands are contradictory.

Your answer below was bang on Vince, because it reconciled, by making the distinction between the outer and inner mysteries. The exoteric versus the esoteric.


Really, you can't
July 27 2010 at 4:49 PM
Vince (Login MoxiFox)
Von Klumpen


Response to Pearls swine, dogs holy
Because THAT spreading of the gospel, spoken of in the NTestament was exoteric. It was understood that the inner mysteries -which were not supposed to be shared publicly- were to be reserved for the inner enlightened group. If those inner mysteries were shared publicly, it was equivalent to throwing pearls before swine.

You could even argue that Paul's letters to the churches were never intended to be shared with the world at large. They were specifically addressed to the churches.

-Vince
casting swill before swine, except strangely enough if it is indeed swine that we are, we dont seem to be particularly interested in its texture. Maybe its even worse?
Quote
Share

Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

July 29th, 2010, 5:37 am #8

Not me! Ha ... I want to be one of the ELECT!

ELECTrified.

Lit up.... ha, ha! yeah ...

-Vince
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: April 17th, 2006, 10:37 pm

July 29th, 2010, 6:14 am #9

The larger question was how do you reconcile "spreading the gospel" with "not casting pearls before swine". It seems these two commands are contradictory.

Your answer below was bang on Vince, because it reconciled, by making the distinction between the outer and inner mysteries. The exoteric versus the esoteric.


Really, you can't
July 27 2010 at 4:49 PM
Vince (Login MoxiFox)
Von Klumpen


Response to Pearls swine, dogs holy
Because THAT spreading of the gospel, spoken of in the NTestament was exoteric. It was understood that the inner mysteries -which were not supposed to be shared publicly- were to be reserved for the inner enlightened group. If those inner mysteries were shared publicly, it was equivalent to throwing pearls before swine.

You could even argue that Paul's letters to the churches were never intended to be shared with the world at large. They were specifically addressed to the churches.

-Vince
and a quick response, at that =)

I don't really see it as a contradiction.

Share the gospel -- but there is nothing that says to argue about it, or try to beat sense into someone until they accept Jesus. Or calling people who don't "get it" stupid, moron, fool, carnal, blah blah blah. We all know how effective that is.

So...share the gospel. He who has ears, let him hear. It's not a Christian's job to try to convict someone -- the Holy Spirit takes care of that. You can't make people believe anything.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."


Casting pearls before swine, or giving to dogs what is holy...if you talk to someone about God, and all they do is argue, disagree, pick everything apart, then they are trampling pearls, tearing up what is holy because they don't understand it, it means nothing to them. So let it go -- they aren't ready to hear it, and it's not your job to convince them. Better to live your life as a Christian example, let people see by your actions that you are a follower of Christ.

'k, that's it, I'm exhausted and I'm gonna go fall into bed.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 8th, 2007, 6:53 am

July 29th, 2010, 6:26 am #10

The antics and personalities of the forums have troubled you as of late, that much is clear.

But to paraphrase a recent post: Have there been any acts of murder, rape, assault? Has anyone been tragically injured, maimed, or caught a terminal illness? Have any laws or ethics been broken? Sure there are some heated discussions, long-term arguments, petty insults and the like, but is anyone truly injured other than an occasional bruised ego?

Considering that participation in the forums is completely voluntary (everyone freely chooses to interact & participate, even in the negative relationships) I find your concerns to resolve long-term arguments and personality conflicts to be rather odd. A noble ideal, no doubt. But nothing I've ever experienced or learned about real people leads me to believe that ideal has any practical merits.

We all choose our reactions & responses, consciously or otherwise. I'm at a loss to understand this particular reaction.
i think my principle can be seen...and i would have pretty much given the same basic answer 2 years ago,

so...rather than assume my answer is just an emotional one which it is not.....perhaps a better attempt to read more closely...even if you may not agree with what i am saying......but that at least there is a point.

you tell me then what or when giving things as stated in the said verse....equates to casting pearls before swine....

no need to mention a name..but a given poster here has all but said his reason for discussion with christians is to show them how errant they are...

so....tell me then.....surely the said verse here....could apply to that situation....why give things which are holy.....to someone who really doesn't want it and thinks he/she knows how wrong the Bible is or the G-d of christian's is...'not' THE G-d.

some continually never really discuss in a thread....

etc....you really do not know of or see people who really are say...out to toy with people like Jack....or want to show christians hther own idea of the christ mind is and all the other stuff one can see...you never see it?

those same people....do they really try to seek what thye person is saying....or just claim they are making...excuses....or whatever else....?

well....i do not consider myself to be overly observant....or incredibly astute....

and what i see...has ZERO to do with any so called personal crap....why is it everyone can see that?...so they think?

i have truly learned and believe....these forums do NOTHING to serve G-d....they serve the self....they are playgrounds using religion as the topic...

no one....in the almost decade and a half i have been on the forums...has ever changed their position religiously at all.....

so anyhow.....mondo asked about this....i answered....and i believe if one looks beyonbd all the affliations and personal posturing on the sites.....that those who truly believe the word of G-d IS holy....and cast things...say here....where there is a visible history of what happens when they do this...YET they continue to......they truly are casting pearls befopre the 'said' swine....while an analogy sure.....it is a great one perspective wise.....

sorry...but i cannot exp[lain this any better than i am....but i assure you...dismissing my position just because you feel it is only an emotionally charged post to solicite some prescribed response.....it isn't....i just am not good at exapaining that which i believe on this....but that is not because of any 'people' on the forums.


frankly i see many making and taking way much more than at least for me...all this stuff is....sure...i have asked you to delete obvious flame threads at julian's....but it is not like i am drooling with saliva on my keys because my blood pressure is about to make my head explode...grin.....hardly.

i apologize that i am not good at explaining myself...and is WHY i rarely post things i believe in my words....AND why i believe some(not YOU) definately push FOR me to do so....like Vince did in this thread....my failings in explaining give a lot of ammunition and reason to digress or...not even consider to ask me to explain better what i am trying to say.....

oh well...grin....i am gunna stop....i think i feel some drool on my arm.....grin again.
Quote
Like
Share