Sophisticated Theology: A Deception to the Church

Sophisticated Theology: A Deception to the Church

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

June 6th, 2011, 2:20 pm #1

Sophisticated Theology: A Deception to the Church
By TGBaker at 6/06/2011

Jesus was an apocalyptic teacher who was seen to perform miracles. He was elevated in one circle of followers to being virgin born. Paul cast him in an ahistorical Hellenistic Savior myth. Another segment of the movement continued as Jewish followers who expected his return but did not believe in the virgin birth or that Jesus was god or divine. The Jewish Christian traditions about Jesus become elevated with the Johannine Hellenistic Logos Christology.

The Jerusalem Church developed into the Ebionites and continued to wait for Jesus to return in "their lifetime" with the resurrection of all the saints. They did not believe in the virgin birth and saw Jesus as a mortal. The Ebionite movement was wiped out pretty much in the second revolt under Simon ben Kokba. Neo-platonic thought moved another aspect of Jewish thought with the help of the Johannine literature toward Gnosticism and Mystery Cultism( Paul). Logos Christology became predominate in the second century while Paul's writings became old hat. Marcion rejected the Jewish background of god and created the first Christian bible. Other groups of churches reacted against Marcion and Paul's writings came back into popularity as well as the pseudepigraphical ones attributed to Paul and Peter/Jude and John. Various forms of Christianity competed with each other creating more and more writings attributed to the Apostles. The gospels were attributed to Matthew , Mark, Luke and John. Jesus became more and more divine and everybody got together and created a bunch of trinity theories. The politicians won.

Historical researchers in this field generally see Jesus as a wondering Cynic teacher spouting out words of wisdom and folk philosophy. It does seem to be the core of what developed into Christianity and the hypothetical document Q. Jesus was a human who came from Galilee. Galilee was the only area in Palestine that was forcefully converted to Judaism. Even so only 50% of the population was Jewish. Rabbi Hannina ben Dosa and Honi the Circle Drawer were very similar characters to Jesus. Simon ben Dosa called god Abba like Jesus ( meaning Daddy instead of a reverential father). He spoke openly with women as Jesus did.

The reason that historians posit these as historical is because they are contrary to the believing Jewish or Christian movement. You can see evidence that the church tried to cover up the fact that Jesus was baptized as others to get rid of sin. Historical Jesus research is a discipline to explain the sociological development of what became Christianity ... what historical kernel was the catalyst for all the mythic construction. It is commonly understood that the bible is mythic in seminaries and theological schools like Princeton, Yale, Emory, Vanderbilt. The bridge from Theological school and seminary to the church and its members is teach it as truth and avoid the lack of factual basis. So statements are demythologized and taken into a philosophical meaning rather than a grounded factual historical meaning. Virgin birth does not really mean a women had a child and was a virgin. It becomes a story to honor Jesus as both god and man. So you have pure historical work. Then the theologians that try to make it still meaningful and then the preachers to present it as literal. When I was in seminary my mentor (Hendrikus Boers) who wrote, Who Was Jesus? was a Marxist atheist from South Africa. He would point to people like Jurgen Moltmann (theologian) as a fraud that needed to be exposed. Then there is the whole moderate movement that tries to salvage some Christianity out of the historical/critical conclusions. Crossan was on the Jesus Seminar team. He knows Jesus was simply a person who got into trouble and was removed from being an irritation. The people who cared about where Jesus was buried did not know where he was buried. The people who did know where he was buried (communal grave) did not care.

Sophisticated Theology affirms the historical conclusions of historical/critical research as well as science but as with the trend since the neo-orthodoxy of Karl Barth and Rudolf Bultmann wish to convert the theological and ethical meaning of the unhistorical scripture into eternal and continued truths for the church. The stories become no more than hyper-fables. And some of their truths are dangerous to our culture.

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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 6th, 2011, 2:41 pm #2

if Jesus is just like you, a sinner like any other man, then tell me, what did your daddy say when he found out your Moma was pregnant by God while she was still a virgin


for that matter, what did your Moma think of that experience?


every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 6th, 2011, 2:44 pm #3

Just because the Church doesn't quite understand JESUS CHRIST YET.........

doesn't mean they are wrong in preaching him as he is written about.........


the writings of the scriptures are meant to BRING US TO A NEW WAY OF PERCEIVING REAILTY


not to question if that reality is possible or not


to the natural man, its not possible


but to the natural man, explain life..............


explain how a brown cow, eats green grass and gives white milk..........for starters


I got more where that came from
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

June 6th, 2011, 8:27 pm #4

if Jesus is just like you, a sinner like any other man, then tell me, what did your daddy say when he found out your Moma was pregnant by God while she was still a virgin


for that matter, what did your Moma think of that experience?

I believe Jesus was conceived and born in the usual manner.

Any claims to the contrary, should be accompanied by proof.

Do you believe any other human has ever been conceived by God?
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Tim
Tim

June 6th, 2011, 9:40 pm #5

The Ark of the Covenant was discovered and blood was found that appeared to have dripped from the cross site above, this was recorded in the scriptures how the earth opened and closed again, the blood was analyzed and found to have 24 chromosomes, 23 from the mother, and one extra 'y' chromosome to make Jesus male... excerpt below sums it up a little:

Humans are made up of a certain number of chromosomes (46). You get 23 from each parent, right? Well, this blood was very unique. It was identified as human blood for sure but there was a difference. This blood only had 24 chromosomes! What this means is that there was 23 from one parent (Mary) and one additional "y" chromosone gene to make Him a him! Sounds confusing but think about it and it should help you to understand. You can hear the story for yourself in a video from Ron's archeology group called "Ark of the Covenant Update" ; www.prophecyclub.com has it also. This finding disproves all the non believers who claimed Mary was impregnated by the high priest Gabriel at the Temple School before being handed over to Joseph in marriage. This DOES prove the immaculate conception and that Jesus WAS fathered by the holy spirit.

The whole report with video
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/ha ... venant.htm

Bro Tim
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 7th, 2011, 1:23 am #6

I believe Jesus was conceived and born in the usual manner.

Any claims to the contrary, should be accompanied by proof.

Do you believe any other human has ever been conceived by God?
the only place that speaks of his birth is the Bible

so any other reference to his birth is not that same Jesus

and what is the LAST NAME of Jesus if he was a regular person?


what are the last names of any of the people in the Bible?
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

June 7th, 2011, 2:13 am #7

Back then, people didn't have last names, but were known as "son of".

Jesus, Son of Joseph.

Yeshua ben Yosef.

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Tim
Tim

June 7th, 2011, 3:21 am #8

Jesus' half brothers and sisters through Mary and Joseph Zebedee.

Jesus' step brothers through Mary:
Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and

Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are

not his sisters here with us?

Sons of Mary: Jesus & James & Joses & Simon/Peter & Judas/Juds and some daughters whos names are not given

in the bible.

Matthew 27:56
Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

John is another son of Zebedee: But maybe a diffrent wife other than Mary?
Matthew 4:21
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a

ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

Matthew 10:2
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his

brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose

surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

This is almost funny what Mary asks of Jesus here:
Matthew 20:20
Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain

thing of him.
21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one

on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink

of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am

baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to

them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.

Mark 10:35
And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for

us whatsoever we shall desire.
36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left

hand, in thy glory.
38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be

baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink

of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for

whom it is prepared.
41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.

Is'nt this wierd? And some of its kind of funny how they ask Jesus if they can be at his right and left

hands.... But that's sweet and cute also.

Bro Tim
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

June 7th, 2011, 12:35 pm #9

the only place that speaks of his birth is the Bible

so any other reference to his birth is not that same Jesus

and what is the LAST NAME of Jesus if he was a regular person?


what are the last names of any of the people in the Bible?
God didn't reveal that to you...?

No, really...
It's stuff like this...
The really SIMPLE things...
That show how little you know.

"Last Names" as Mondo has pointed out...
Were, for the most part, designations of lineage...
-- "Son of"...
Or...
They were descriptive of a person's occupation...
-- Smith...
-- Cooper...
-- Taylor...
-- Piper...
-- Paige...
-- Hunter...
-- Mason...
And the list goes on.

Of course...
YOU probably have some fantastic explanation...
Telling us how all of those names...
Aren't descriptive of occupations past...
But ARE, in fact...
Entirely Symbolic of a Higher Dimensional Calling...
That WE, who have not been "Chosen"...
-- Are NOT Able to Comprehend.

*-ahem-*... Duh.

-PRev1-

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

June 7th, 2011, 12:47 pm #10

Jesus' half brothers and sisters through Mary and Joseph Zebedee.

Jesus' step brothers through Mary:
Matthew 13:55
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and

Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?

Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are

not his sisters here with us?

Sons of Mary: Jesus & James & Joses & Simon/Peter & Judas/Juds and some daughters whos names are not given

in the bible.

Matthew 27:56
Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children.

John is another son of Zebedee: But maybe a diffrent wife other than Mary?
Matthew 4:21
And going on from thence, he saw other two brethren, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in a

ship with Zebedee their father, mending their nets; and he called them.

Matthew 10:2
Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his

brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose

surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

This is almost funny what Mary asks of Jesus here:
Matthew 20:20
Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain

thing of him.
21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one

on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink

of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am

baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to

them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
24 And when the ten heard it, they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.

Mark 10:35
And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for

us whatsoever we shall desire.
36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left

hand, in thy glory.
38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be

baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink

of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for

whom it is prepared.
41 And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John.

Is'nt this wierd? And some of its kind of funny how they ask Jesus if they can be at his right and left

hands.... But that's sweet and cute also.

Bro Tim
<blockquote>Luke 3:23 --
When He began His ministry,
Jesus Himself was about thirty years of age,
being,
as was supposed,
the son of Joseph.
The Bible tells you that it was as it was supposed.
So, why Do YOU suppose otherwise.

-PRev1-
</blockquote>

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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