Response to Yvonne

Response to Yvonne

Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

April 7th, 2010, 12:37 pm #1

http://www.network54.com/Forum/272761/m ... +this+NUCC

Y> first answer me this NUCC

should I or anyone take this literally?

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

if Paul was crucified with Christ and others in the early Church were crucified with Christ, and Paul spoke to these who had what????

N> That's very easily answered Yvonne and ALL you have to use is COMMON SENSE. Looking back, the day of Christ's crucifixion we see Christ and we see two others crucified on crosses. Common sense tells us that Paul is not on a cross for HIS SIN nor are those that are Christ's have their crosses to which they were crucified, SO the verses from Galatians CANNOT be literal so they must be something else.

Let me remind you AGAIN about WHAT The Historical-Grammatical Method of Bible Interpretation entails

WHAT THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION METHOD IS

The word LITERAL in Hermeneutics (the science of interpretation) means to interpret the Scripture in the LITERAL SENSE of the text you're reading as opposed to the NON-LITERAL or ALLEGORY SENSE.

It refers to the understanding of a text that ANY person of normal intelligence would understand without the help of any SPECIAL KEYS or BIBLE CODES.

A NORMAL person would not understand your verses if they were taken LITERALLY LITERAL because at the crucifixion there were only THREE ON CROSSES ...HOWEVER if a person would view from the CONTEXT of the WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE, the person would see himself/herself being crucified "WITH" CHRIST



Rom 6:6-8
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (NAS)

Again Yvonne, the Historical-Grammatical Method is NOT a literal interpretation to the "LETTER" ...but RATHER seeks to find out what God through Paul was REALLY saying.

For example the other day we were at each other on the the word "HATE" miseo. You took the meaning of the word to the LETTER, whereas the authors of the verses I presented present an extension of the same word....to love less. This is where I believe you're confused.



Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

Last edited by Forerunner on April 7th, 2010, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

April 7th, 2010, 1:02 pm #2

do you literally agree with Paul here? was "your old man crucified with Christ" or not?

Rom 6:6-8
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (NAS)

in still other words, "have you died with Christ" or not?

its really an easy question if one sees the Bible literally:
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

April 7th, 2010, 1:38 pm #3

http://www.network54.com/Forum/272761/m ... +this+NUCC

Y> first answer me this NUCC

should I or anyone take this literally?

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

if Paul was crucified with Christ and others in the early Church were crucified with Christ, and Paul spoke to these who had what????

N> That's very easily answered Yvonne and ALL you have to use is COMMON SENSE. Looking back, the day of Christ's crucifixion we see Christ and we see two others crucified on crosses. Common sense tells us that Paul is not on a cross for HIS SIN nor are those that are Christ's have their crosses to which they were crucified, SO the verses from Galatians CANNOT be literal so they must be something else.

Let me remind you AGAIN about WHAT The Historical-Grammatical Method of Bible Interpretation entails

WHAT THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION METHOD IS

The word LITERAL in Hermeneutics (the science of interpretation) means to interpret the Scripture in the LITERAL SENSE of the text you're reading as opposed to the NON-LITERAL or ALLEGORY SENSE.

It refers to the understanding of a text that ANY person of normal intelligence would understand without the help of any SPECIAL KEYS or BIBLE CODES.

A NORMAL person would not understand your verses if they were taken LITERALLY LITERAL because at the crucifixion there were only THREE ON CROSSES ...HOWEVER if a person would view from the CONTEXT of the WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE, the person would see himself/herself being crucified "WITH" CHRIST



Rom 6:6-8
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (NAS)

Again Yvonne, the Historical-Grammatical Method is NOT a literal interpretation to the "LETTER" ...but RATHER seeks to find out what God through Paul was REALLY saying.

For example the other day we were at each other on the the word "HATE" miseo. You took the meaning of the word to the LETTER, whereas the authors of the verses I presented present an extension of the same word....to love less. This is where I believe you're confused.



Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal
NUCC wrote: "SO the verses from Galatians CANNOT be literal so they must be something else."


If they are not literal then they must be interpreted  in a non-literal sense, is that right? It sounds like Yvonne was right and you admit to it. JB

 
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

April 7th, 2010, 2:28 pm #4

do you literally agree with Paul here? was "your old man crucified with Christ" or not?

Rom 6:6-8
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (NAS)

in still other words, "have you died with Christ" or not?

its really an easy question if one sees the Bible literally:
The Bible is CLEAR. I was dead in my sins LITERALLY but not in my physicality. It wouldn't make sense to normal thinkers that I'd literally be dead physically because I'm STILL POSTING. Any person of NORMAL INTELLIGENCE would understand that

It refers to the understanding of a text that ANY person of normal intelligence would understand without the help of any SPECIAL KEYS or BIBLE CODES.



Eph 2:1-7
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly {places} in Christ Jesus,
7 in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
(NAS)

Now.....I'm not PRESENTLY and LITERALLY seated in the heavenly places but metaphorically I am, which IS ACCEPTABLE in the Historical-Grammatical Method of Interpretation. In the ages "TO COME" ALL TRUE CHRISTIANS will LITERALLY BE THERE.



Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

April 7th, 2010, 2:56 pm #5

NUCC wrote: "SO the verses from Galatians CANNOT be literal so they must be something else."


If they are not literal then they must be interpreted  in a non-literal sense, is that right? It sounds like Yvonne was right and you admit to it. JB

 
What did I just say?

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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JB
JB

April 7th, 2010, 3:09 pm #6

you might want to polish up on what the 'Historical-Grammatical method' of interpretation means instead of putting your personal spin on it. JB
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

April 7th, 2010, 3:18 pm #7

I started out talking with you amicably with a question. You immediately judged my tone as rude and ignored answering my question.. YOU'VE got the problem ignorant, NOT ME.

I understand the Historical-Grammatical Method of Bible Interpretation very well because I use it. You're confused.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

Last edited by Forerunner on April 7th, 2010, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JB
JB

April 7th, 2010, 3:35 pm #8

using the 'historical-grammatical method' of interpretation explain HOW it is USED to interpret Paul's words "I am crucified with Christ" (Gal 2:20). JB
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Striver
Striver

April 7th, 2010, 4:02 pm #9

http://www.network54.com/Forum/272761/m ... +this+NUCC

Y> first answer me this NUCC

should I or anyone take this literally?

Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

if Paul was crucified with Christ and others in the early Church were crucified with Christ, and Paul spoke to these who had what????

N> That's very easily answered Yvonne and ALL you have to use is COMMON SENSE. Looking back, the day of Christ's crucifixion we see Christ and we see two others crucified on crosses. Common sense tells us that Paul is not on a cross for HIS SIN nor are those that are Christ's have their crosses to which they were crucified, SO the verses from Galatians CANNOT be literal so they must be something else.

Let me remind you AGAIN about WHAT The Historical-Grammatical Method of Bible Interpretation entails

WHAT THE LITERAL INTERPRETATION METHOD IS

The word LITERAL in Hermeneutics (the science of interpretation) means to interpret the Scripture in the LITERAL SENSE of the text you're reading as opposed to the NON-LITERAL or ALLEGORY SENSE.

It refers to the understanding of a text that ANY person of normal intelligence would understand without the help of any SPECIAL KEYS or BIBLE CODES.

A NORMAL person would not understand your verses if they were taken LITERALLY LITERAL because at the crucifixion there were only THREE ON CROSSES ...HOWEVER if a person would view from the CONTEXT of the WHOLE OF SCRIPTURE, the person would see himself/herself being crucified "WITH" CHRIST



Rom 6:6-8
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (NAS)

Again Yvonne, the Historical-Grammatical Method is NOT a literal interpretation to the "LETTER" ...but RATHER seeks to find out what God through Paul was REALLY saying.

For example the other day we were at each other on the the word "HATE" miseo. You took the meaning of the word to the LETTER, whereas the authors of the verses I presented present an extension of the same word....to love less. This is where I believe you're confused.



Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal
Crucifixion on a cross (before Christianity took, as they have done with many things, the cross as their special symbol) was called in the East "The Great Renunciation;" that point at which everything going to the make-up of human mind, is renounced. A mind Christed has crucified, that is, killed, renounced, all that pertains to human mind... the flesh, lust, and all the rest...you name it.

Where Christianity has made its mistake, AND IT'S A WHOPPER, is they have Christ dying on the cross. What this really means is, Christ mind has died to the cross of carnal, human mind, plus all the other nasties included in human mind. The cross is a symbol for human mind upon which Christ mind is crucified and from which it frees itself." The NOT AT ALL NEW,NEW TESTAMENT is an allegorical depiction of this "freeing process."

The Crucifixion is that moment in one's spiritual evolution at which human, carnal, mind dies it final death. At that point, which we will all eventually reach, we too can say, "It is finished." What began (in the Bible allegory) with Genesis 3:22 is completed..."finished." Man (mind) has become God mind.
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

April 7th, 2010, 4:02 pm #10

using the 'historical-grammatical method' of interpretation explain HOW it is USED to interpret Paul's words "I am crucified with Christ" (Gal 2:20). JB
Gal 2:20
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the {life} which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me. (NAS)

What is your position before God had not Christ been crucified?

Here's a hint.


Eph 2:1-2
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. (NAS)

In modern terms we can call this DEAD MAN WALKING

When one receives the GRACE of God as is offered, that person is placed in a DIFFERENT POSITION BEFORE GOD.

Rom 6:6-8
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, (NAS)

Our old man is the man ALIVE IN THIS WORLD, but DEAD in HIS TRESSPASSES and sins. Hence from God's perspective this person is like a DEAD MAN WALKING.






Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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