Our life is a grand story.

Our life is a grand story.

Iceman
Iceman

April 5th, 2011, 12:29 am #1



Judgment pre-supposes it's possible to have an absolute truth to base life upon facts that are measurable to social settings and interactions.

In practical day to day living, however, this is not the case. Truth is never what we hold it to be. Truth, is merely a fable that more than one person will vouch for as being part of their life.

To hold onto a truth require us to maintain the boundaries of what is false.The two (truth & falseness) define each other. The big mistake is to think that most truths can be absolute. The only truth which is absolute is that the undefined can never be fully defined. All other truths are partial truths, statements mixed with perceptions, assumptions from the models of the world and our stories.

Quote
Share

Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

April 5th, 2011, 12:34 am #2

we try to define everything in nature, but when it comes to our own awareness of truth....it is out of the realm of discussion?

ok, I'll accept that for you...
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
Quote
Like
Share

Tim
Tim

April 5th, 2011, 12:58 am #3

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

Quote
Share

JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 5th, 2011, 4:57 am #4


Judgment pre-supposes it's possible to have an absolute truth to base life upon facts that are measurable to social settings and interactions.

In practical day to day living, however, this is not the case. Truth is never what we hold it to be. Truth, is merely a fable that more than one person will vouch for as being part of their life.

To hold onto a truth require us to maintain the boundaries of what is false.The two (truth & falseness) define each other. The big mistake is to think that most truths can be absolute. The only truth which is absolute is that the undefined can never be fully defined. All other truths are partial truths, statements mixed with perceptions, assumptions from the models of the world and our stories.
..... within which everyone tells their tales.

The nature of truth is such it is demonstrably fact and the nature of fact is such it is demonstrably true.

So, what's the mystery then? 
<p align="center"><a rel="nofollow"><img border="0" alt="" src="http://images.bravenet.com/common/image ... a.gif"></a>


-it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
after all, truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ... mere conjecture-


New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
Quote
Like
Share

Seoc Colla
Seoc Colla

April 5th, 2011, 8:52 am #5


Judgment pre-supposes it's possible to have an absolute truth to base life upon facts that are measurable to social settings and interactions.

In practical day to day living, however, this is not the case. Truth is never what we hold it to be. Truth, is merely a fable that more than one person will vouch for as being part of their life.

To hold onto a truth require us to maintain the boundaries of what is false.The two (truth & falseness) define each other. The big mistake is to think that most truths can be absolute. The only truth which is absolute is that the undefined can never be fully defined. All other truths are partial truths, statements mixed with perceptions, assumptions from the models of the world and our stories.
Excellent insight, iceman.
'truth' is a moving standard - as we grow and realise our truths hopefully expand to fill the space now made available, althoigh this need not happen either immediately or automatically.

Some folk religiously hold onto 'yesterdays' truth long after greater truths beckon, revealing that they see truth to be limited in time and space - thereby making it so, for them.

As we grow, the opportunities for expansion appear, though whether we gratefully embrace them (or not) could depend so much upon what was slipped into young minds before their natural defences of reason were in place.

How many would deliberately sacrifice their truth for material gain?
Another story, of course although it is said that the gods are not mocked.
Quote
Share

JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

April 5th, 2011, 3:55 pm #6

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
 

.... because for most of the time humans have been on Earth, if they wished to observe something they had to be physically present. Stories told around campfires would create images, some more fantasized than others, perhaps, but beyond that, ancient man was fairly firmly rooted to the reality as interpreted by its own senses.

As painting developed, and more importantly, as photography developed: first still; then moving, things changed. People could now be exposed to images of things they had not seen themselves; they could even be exposed to images of things that were, in fact, deliberate fakes.

The conscious part of our brain knows, of course, when we see a movie, we are seeing actors, in costumes, on a set, being filmed. On the other hand, these images are stored in our brains without a label that reads: false image.

Our six senses; vision, hearing, smell, taste, touch and intuition are our only contact with the world outside our bodies. These senses send data to the brain, which processes it and stores it in a memory bank.

This is important when we realize that, during a lifetime, literally millions and millions of false images are stored in our brains. The further we get from the moment we first saw the false image, the more difficult it is to sort out what is a true image and what is a false image.

Bear in mind, then, that we know nothing about a past we did not experience, what we know is what we have been told in words, artwork, photographs and film produced by others.

Now consider something we have been told happened, in fact, did not happen? Consider that all the words we've read and heard; all the images we have seen in photographs and film, were, in fact, deliberately chosen to deceive us?

It's stunning, when we think about it, that 100 percent of our knowledge of the past is created in our minds by words and images produced by other people. The same goes for most of our knowledge of the present.

We can be in only one place at one time and directly experience what is within range of our senses. Beyond that, we rely on words and images transmitted to us by others. Whether these words and images are indeed accurate reflections of the real things is difficult for us to know.

Believing hearsay then, is a rather tricky business - finding out for ourselves is the way to go then.

 

The most sure way to establish truth is by facts which are determined by the properties that define them. In order to discern fact from fiction, we must know what fact is. In order to know what fact is - <em>to establish it; to be able to recognize fact for what it is, especially when not directly obvious </em>- we must know what the properties are that define fact.

And here's where another clincher comes in:

When we are asked to cite the properties that define fact, chances are - <em>although it is very likely we think we have a pretty good beat on what 'fact' entails </em>- we'll discover we can't. Go ahead, take it to the test .....................

 

Now what?
<p align="center"><a rel="nofollow"><img border="0" alt="" src="http://images.bravenet.com/common/image ... t.gif"></a>
<p align="center">"The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." - The bible


-it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
after all, truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ... mere conjecture-


New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
Quote
Like
Share

Iceman
Iceman

April 5th, 2011, 4:02 pm #7

we try to define everything in nature, but when it comes to our own awareness of truth....it is out of the realm of discussion?

ok, I'll accept that for you...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Y)"we try to define everything in nature, but when it comes to our own awareness of truth....it is out of the realm of discussion"?

(Ice) I assume you have a frog in your pocket.

(Y) "ok, I'll accept that for you..".

(Ice) Judgementalism goes a long way down a negative path.


Quote
Share

yvonne
yvonne

April 5th, 2011, 4:41 pm #8

look at the first sentence you copied from me.........it was a question....

I didn't judge you, I questioned you and agreed that your answer is yours .....thats not a judgment

my question in case you forgot is



(Y)"we try to define everything in nature, but when it comes to our own awareness of truth....it is out of the realm of discussion"?



notice the question mark?


how is this judging you?

I said if it is out of the realm of discussion with you then I will accept it .....
Quote
Share

Iceman
Iceman

April 5th, 2011, 5:25 pm #9

I can read! Second sentence not the first.

Pretty easy to do this on the internet, thus it does not matter.

Truth is relative to perception. So is judgement.

Nature is law. We perceive Nature but cannot know it. Therefore, all we know of law is what we perceive and judge it to be.

What appears right at the momment is wrong another time. One fact now may be incorrect the next. Fact and right, true and false are bound to individual perception.
Quote
Share

Tim
Tim

April 7th, 2011, 6:26 am #10

 

.... because for most of the time humans have been on Earth, if they wished to observe something they had to be physically present. Stories told around campfires would create images, some more fantasized than others, perhaps, but beyond that, ancient man was fairly firmly rooted to the reality as interpreted by its own senses.

As painting developed, and more importantly, as photography developed: first still; then moving, things changed. People could now be exposed to images of things they had not seen themselves; they could even be exposed to images of things that were, in fact, deliberate fakes.

The conscious part of our brain knows, of course, when we see a movie, we are seeing actors, in costumes, on a set, being filmed. On the other hand, these images are stored in our brains without a label that reads: false image.

Our six senses; vision, hearing, smell, taste, touch and intuition are our only contact with the world outside our bodies. These senses send data to the brain, which processes it and stores it in a memory bank.

This is important when we realize that, during a lifetime, literally millions and millions of false images are stored in our brains. The further we get from the moment we first saw the false image, the more difficult it is to sort out what is a true image and what is a false image.

Bear in mind, then, that we know nothing about a past we did not experience, what we know is what we have been told in words, artwork, photographs and film produced by others.

Now consider something we have been told happened, in fact, did not happen? Consider that all the words we've read and heard; all the images we have seen in photographs and film, were, in fact, deliberately chosen to deceive us?

It's stunning, when we think about it, that 100 percent of our knowledge of the past is created in our minds by words and images produced by other people. The same goes for most of our knowledge of the present.

We can be in only one place at one time and directly experience what is within range of our senses. Beyond that, we rely on words and images transmitted to us by others. Whether these words and images are indeed accurate reflections of the real things is difficult for us to know.

Believing hearsay then, is a rather tricky business - finding out for ourselves is the way to go then.

 

The most sure way to establish truth is by facts which are determined by the properties that define them. In order to discern fact from fiction, we must know what fact is. In order to know what fact is - <em>to establish it; to be able to recognize fact for what it is, especially when not directly obvious </em>- we must know what the properties are that define fact.

And here's where another clincher comes in:

When we are asked to cite the properties that define fact, chances are - <em>although it is very likely we think we have a pretty good beat on what 'fact' entails </em>- we'll discover we can't. Go ahead, take it to the test .....................

 

Now what?
<p align="center"><a rel="nofollow"><img border="0" alt="" src="http://images.bravenet.com/common/image ... t.gif"></a>
<p align="center">"The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." - The bible


-it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
after all, truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ... mere conjecture-


New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
Your just a chickenshit idiot. A fool.

Tim
Quote
Share