Nucc: Stop

Nucc: Stop

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

February 17th, 2010, 2:44 pm #1

I won't ban you, but I will delete any further personal attacks on my character or Pam's, in relation to our marriage. I have deleted a couple of your posts this morning.

We can disagree, we can insult, but there is a line that you are crossing into judging relationships and it won't be tolerated.

Please try to post in a Christ like fashion, displaying the Fruits of the Spirit.

THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT
and the fruition of God's work in you

This harvest of spiritual fruit is ripe for the picking:

* What Is Meant By "Fruit Of the Spirit"?
* Paul Describes the Spirit's Fruit (with links to specific fruit).
* Spiritual Fruit In the Bible.
* Why Are Spiritual Fruit So Important?
* Reconciliation and Unity.
* Recap.


The fruit are what the Spirit grows from your life
What Does 'Fruit of the Spirit' Mean?

When Christians speak of the work of the "Holy Spirit", they are speaking about the operations of the Spirit of God in the material world we live in, and within us. But God the Holy Spirit isn't here just to hang out, or to do a miracle or two for sport. The Spirit is there to cause things to happen in peoples' lives that bring them more in tune with God's purposes on earth (and beyond). When the Spirit starts changing someone, it shows as a growth in character, a change in their way of life that is good for the people they live among. This change in character is called a 'fruit of the Spirit', like the fruit grown by a tree can feed people and wildlife. From ancient times to today, abundant fruit from an orchard is seen as cause for hope and celebration. Abundant spiritual fruit also breeds hope and is well worth celebrating.
Paul Describes Them

The most famous Bible passage about the fruit of the Spirit is in Galatians 5:22, where the apostle Paul gives us a list of fruit. (Paul was into making lists.) The list is meant as a contrast to the list of the 'deeds of the flesh' found in 5:19-20. The spiritual fruit list is clearly not intended as an exhaustive description of the fruits, but was given to highlight the fruits that Paul wants the Galatian church to keep in mind. He lists the following nine fruit of the Spirit:

* love (agape);
* joy (chara);
* peace (eirene);
* patience (makrothumia);
* kindness (chrestotes);
* goodness (agathosune);
* faithfulness (pistis);
* gentleness (prautes);
* self-control (egkrateia).

(Check out the links for each word above, and throughout the page. The Galatians passage can also be read as listing the other eight as subsets of the first: love. Many Bible students insist that the singular of 'fruit' be used, and not the plural ('fruit' instead of 'fruits'). Yet, in English, the singular form of 'fruit' is occasionally used like a plural.)

When Paul follows the list of the fruit of the Spirit by saying "against such things there is no law", he was talking about the fact that the religious authorities and the Hebrew Torah (law) are positive toward behavior that shows these characteristics. Even a staunch enemy of the church will likely find these qualities appealing. These are known to be positive characteristics by almost everyone, in most eras, in most lands.
Other Passages Which Bear Fruit

Paul's Galatians list is made of stuff that is both something you are and something you do. It is the Spirit giving you the character of Christ. There are other such lists in the Epistles, and they are also relevant to any talk about the fruit of the Spirit.

In 1 Corinthians 13, in the midst of Paul's description of the gifts of the Spirit, there is a section on love. While not directly about 'fruit', it is about what springs from love, and it is in much the same vein. According to verses 4-8, love:

* suffers long;
* is kind;
* does not envy (ou zeloo);
* does not parade itself (ou perereupmai);
* does not get 'puffed up' (ou phusioutai);
* does not behave rudely (ouk askemonei);
* is not provoked;
* does not think evilly, nor rejoice in sin;
* rejoices in the truth;
* bears all things;
* believes all things;
* hopes all things;
* endures all things.

In Phillipians 4:8, Paul advises us to think on things that are:

* true;
* noble, or worthy of high esteem (semnos);
* just;
* pure;
* lovely (prosphiles);
* of good report (euphemos);
* of any virtue, or excellence (arete);
* worthy of praise (epainos).

In Colossians 3:12-16, the church members are told to put on (wear) these things:

* tender mercies;
* kindness;
* humility or self-smallness (tapeinophrasune);
* a heart of compassion (oiktirmos);
* gentleness;
* patience.

Then, they are further instructed to:

* bear with one another;
* forgive one another;
* love;
* let the peace of God rule their hearts;
* be thankful (eucharistoi);
* have God's Word live in them abundantly;
* teach and admonish one another;
* sing with grace in their hearts.

All this character stuff is to be done in the name of Jesus, to further the purposes He came for.
Go up to top


The Spirit gives, we throw it back
What Makes the Fruit So Important?

These fruit lists describe what a Christian's character grows into, over time. There was no word in there about being given the Midas touch for resolving all financial woes. There's not even the slightest signal in there about tongues being the evidence of the Spirit's presence. There's nothing about crusading for a just society, though there is something about being just. These lists are completely silent about miraculous deeds or the gifts of wisdom or knowledge or discernment as signs of the Spirit's rule within a person. The lists give no special credit to official power or office or responsibility. It sounds instead like a repeated refrain from Jesus (Matthew 7:16, 20) that one knows God's followers 'by their fruits'. Or, like the apostle Paul's urgings that the Roman church bear fruit for God, or James about being full of mercy and good fruit. Or John the Baptist, or even the proverb which says that "the fruit of righteousness is a tree of life" (an early example of 'fruit' to describe results). These matters of character are the stuff which gives life-ness to life. It is holiness taking root in you. It is something you are, not just something you do or think.

In Jeremiah (6:19), God speaks of the disaster which is about to come, and speaks of it as "the fruit of their plans" -- that which comes from evil scheming. So bad character can also come to fruition.

The early church continued this concern about how those with the Spirit develop a character like Christ's. Some of them spend much of their writing time on describing what this character is. Polycarp, for instance, in his letter to the church in Philippi, wrote that the church's leaders are to have "a wide compassion for humanity", which does not put off doing kindnesses. (Think here of Jewish mitzvot ; it's about going beyond merely doing good, into being someone who is characterized by doing good, to honor God and for the sake of others.) He, like Paul, also writes about what is not a part of this character: gossip, the undermining of others, easily believing ill of others, loose sexual behavior, empty speech, quick temper, and most especially the eagerness for money.

The early Protestant pietists shared this concern. They knew from Scripture that if the Spirit is at home in someone, that person will start taking on the characteristics described as the fruit of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit works to change Christians so they have the depth of character the Bible talks about. It's not automatic or sudden. Like everything else in this broken world and its broken people, it's something that arises only in part, not completely, in this life. We are always 'under construction', just like any good web site is. The Spirit never leaves "well enough" alone, but is always working for something better.

Many later pietists and Holiness believers, unfortunately, forgot how deeply marred we are by sin, and saw failure to live in these 'fruit' as proof that the Spirit was not at work. This resulted in a new legalism made of a decision to obey behavioral rules rooted in law, not in a soul which grew through the Spirit's work to bear good fruit.

You don't need to turn to the Law to give rise to character in ourselves and our children. You need to turn to the Spirit, and trust that the Spirit will be working overtime to change you, working literally till Kingdom come, refashioning you so you become like Christ.

The early church understood this. They didn't go around saying they had the Holy Spirit and thus needed no human teachers. They instead took each other aside and corrected each other, and those who understood the Christian way best (especially the apostles) taught it to the others. They accepted their responsibility for spiritual growth in their fellow believers. Even the apostles were not above correction, as Paul so sharply points out in Galatians. They understood that by way of mutual education and the use of discernment, in the power of the Holy Spirit, they could grow as Christians. The evidence of growth was the fruit. The "fullness of the Spirit" is when the gifts are applied fruit-fully.
Back to Top
Fruit for Reconciliation and Unity

Unity is a fruit of the Spirit, found in the "one anothers" of Colossians. But it is not always immediately so. Jesus' work set father against son and mother against daughter, and the Spirit takes after Jesus' ministry. In Acts 15, even though the Jerusalem Council was being guided by the Spirit, division arose. It takes some wrestling with the matter, a struggling done with an attitude of submission, of 'show us, Spirit!'. While this is going on, we may differ, even vigorously. But the disagreement itself can be part of the process the Spirit uses to get the matter sorted out.

Often what results is a surprising unity, in which we have spiritually grown and stepped toward the future in a vision for mission. Sometimes the disunity may represent differing paths which may have to co-exist in tension, at least for a while, to inform and correct each other. Either result can be fully in keeping with the Spirit's work. Where there is such tension, the Spirit brings reconciliation.

The organism of believers known as the Christian Church is able to hold, and to benefit from, the human race's many cultures, outlooks, theologies, histories and styles. Yet the Church can only be truly catholic ('of the whole') when it embraces and sustains the whole truth. It means not just being broad in most ways, it also means being clear about what to reject.

Conformity and uniformity tend to be deadening, but at specific times may be crucial to the task at hand. Try, for instance, fighting to defend one's country against invaders. If everyone had a different type of gun, the supply of munitions would be impossible and the nation would fall. Or, can you picture how repairs would be done if every individual car's parts were all unique to that particular car? The core identity of the Christian faith is what identifies church from non-church, it is what allows us to operate together, even for a moment, even on any one matter, as if we were one body. In a way, we are, or so says the Bible.

The fruit of the Spirit are like most things from God, in that they are both a personal way of life and a corporate way of life. The fruit don't have a 'communal' or 'individual' side; one is the other. It is in this way of life that Christ will be seen by others.


RECAP

1. You can't be godly apart from the Spirit; you're just not at that level, and not that kind of good.
2. As a matter of our nature, we are hell-bent on getting what we desire. Even the best side of you gets twisted by this inner drive.
3. God has a very different way, and wants you to follow it. Since you can't, the Spirit grows you up, cleans you up, and makes good ('fruit') come from you, in the manner of Jesus Christ.
4. Where there are 'the fruit of the Spirit', the Spirit is at work. You can put your trust in this truth.
5. Each person in the Spirit has the fruit differently, and each fruit has a different shape in each person -- but all the spiritual fruits will show themselves in each Christian as he or she goes deeper into their walk with the Spirit.



If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
~ Gensha

Wide Open Bible Forum - - - - Many Paths




Last edited by Oscar50 on February 17th, 2010, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

February 17th, 2010, 2:54 pm #2

Where's the fruit? Where's the peace? Why are you angry?

You stop telling lies about MY LORD and MY SAVIOUR and I'll stop exposing you.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

February 17th, 2010, 3:04 pm #3

I love my wife and as such will not allow you to discuss our marriage or relationship which you are doing in a manner that is intended to cause hurt.

I love you Nucc, but in a much different way. If I did not love you you would have been banned long ago.

Truly I am sorry for the hurt I have caused you to have such a personal hatred for me. It is personal that much is clear.

I am not angry. If I were angry my actions and words would be far less measured.

My fruit is in protecting the sanctity of our marriage. These are my fruits, the post above and this one. Yes, posts are fruits too.

If you don't want to discuss the topics here, you are free to leave. I am sorry that we disagree theologically, and you are free to discuss and argue theologically.

But you cannot exact revenge for a difference of opinion on theology by an unChristlike attack on our marriage.

peace

Last edited by Oscar50 on February 17th, 2010, 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

February 17th, 2010, 3:07 pm #4

I'm saying your love for her is YOUR DEFINITION of love. A love that can only go so far and then ends in tragedy.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

February 17th, 2010, 3:10 pm #5

I won't ban you, but I will delete any further personal attacks on my character or Pam's, in relation to our marriage. I have deleted a couple of your posts this morning.

We can disagree, we can insult, but there is a line that you are crossing into judging relationships and it won't be tolerated.

Please try to post in a Christ like fashion, displaying the Fruits of the Spirit.

THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT
and the fruition of God's work in you

This harvest of spiritual fruit is ripe for the picking:

* What Is Meant By "Fruit Of the Spirit"?
* Paul Describes the Spirit's Fruit (with links to specific fruit).
* Spiritual Fruit In the Bible.
* Why Are Spiritual Fruit So Important?
* Reconciliation and Unity.
* Recap.


The fruit are what the Spirit grows from your life
What Does 'Fruit of the Spirit' Mean?

When Christians speak of the work of the "Holy Spirit", they are speaking about the operations of the Spirit of God in the material world we live in, and within us. But God the Holy Spirit isn't here just to hang out, or to do a miracle or two for sport. The Spirit is there to cause things to happen in peoples' lives that bring them more in tune with God's purposes on earth (and beyond). When the Spirit starts changing someone, it shows as a growth in character, a change in their way of life that is good for the people they live among. This change in character is called a 'fruit of the Spirit', like the fruit grown by a tree can feed people and wildlife. From ancient times to today, abundant fruit from an orchard is seen as cause for hope and celebration. Abundant spiritual fruit also breeds hope and is well worth celebrating.
Paul Describes Them

The most famous Bible passage about the fruit of the Spirit is in Galatians 5:22, where the apostle Paul gives us a list of fruit. (Paul was into making lists.) The list is meant as a contrast to the list of the 'deeds of the flesh' found in 5:19-20. The spiritual fruit list is clearly not intended as an exhaustive description of the fruits, but was given to highlight the fruits that Paul wants the Galatian church to keep in mind. He lists the following nine fruit of the Spirit:

* love (agape);
* joy (chara);
* peace (eirene);
* patience (makrothumia);
* kindness (chrestotes);
* goodness (agathosune);
* faithfulness (pistis);
* gentleness (prautes);
* self-control (egkrateia).

(Check out the links for each word above, and throughout the page. The Galatians passage can also be read as listing the other eight as subsets of the first: love. Many Bible students insist that the singular of 'fruit' be used, and not the plural ('fruit' instead of 'fruits'). Yet, in English, the singular form of 'fruit' is occasionally used like a plural.)

When Paul follows the list of the fruit of the Spirit by saying "against such things there is no law", he was talking about the fact that the religious authorities and the Hebrew Torah (law) are positive toward behavior that shows these characteristics. Even a staunch enemy of the church will likely find these qualities appealing. These are known to be positive characteristics by almost everyone, in most eras, in most lands.
Other Passages Which Bear Fruit

Paul's Galatians list is made of stuff that is both something you are and something you do. It is the Spirit giving you the character of Christ. There are other such lists in the Epistles, and they are also relevant to any talk about the fruit of the Spirit.

In 1 Corinthians 13, in the midst of Paul's description of the gifts of the Spirit, there is a section on love. While not directly about 'fruit', it is about what springs from love, and it is in much the same vein. According to verses 4-8, love:

* suffers long;
* is kind;
* does not envy (ou zeloo);
* does not parade itself (ou perereupmai);
* does not get 'puffed up' (ou phusioutai);
* does not behave rudely (ouk askemonei);
* is not provoked;
* does not think evilly, nor rejoice in sin;
* rejoices in the truth;
* bears all things;
* believes all things;
* hopes all things;
* endures all things.

In Phillipians 4:8, Paul advises us to think on things that are:

* true;
* noble, or worthy of high esteem (semnos);
* just;
* pure;
* lovely (prosphiles);
* of good report (euphemos);
* of any virtue, or excellence (arete);
* worthy of praise (epainos).

In Colossians 3:12-16, the church members are told to put on (wear) these things:

* tender mercies;
* kindness;
* humility or self-smallness (tapeinophrasune);
* a heart of compassion (oiktirmos);
* gentleness;
* patience.

Then, they are further instructed to:

* bear with one another;
* forgive one another;
* love;
* let the peace of God rule their hearts;
* be thankful (eucharistoi);
* have God's Word live in them abundantly;
* teach and admonish one another;
* sing with grace in their hearts.

All this character stuff is to be done in the name of Jesus, to further the purposes He came for.
Go up to top


The Spirit gives, we throw it back
What Makes the Fruit So Important?

These fruit lists describe what a Christian's character grows into, over time. There was no word in there about being given the Midas touch for resolving all financial woes. There's not even the slightest signal in there about tongues being the evidence of the Spirit's presence. There's nothing about crusading for a just society, though there is something about being just. These lists are completely silent about miraculous deeds or the gifts of wisdom or knowledge or discernment as signs of the Spirit's rule within a person. The lists give no special credit to official power or office or responsibility. It sounds instead like a repeated refrain from Jesus (Matthew 7:16, 20) that one knows God's followers 'by their fruits'. Or, like the apostle Paul's urgings that the Roman church bear fruit for God, or James about being full of mercy and good fruit. Or John the Baptist, or even the proverb which says that "the fruit of righteousness is a tree of life" (an early example of 'fruit' to describe results). These matters of character are the stuff which gives life-ness to life. It is holiness taking root in you. It is something you are, not just something you do or think.

In Jeremiah (6:19), God speaks of the disaster which is about to come, and speaks of it as "the fruit of their plans" -- that which comes from evil scheming. So bad character can also come to fruition.

The early church continued this concern about how those with the Spirit develop a character like Christ's. Some of them spend much of their writing time on describing what this character is. Polycarp, for instance, in his letter to the church in Philippi, wrote that the church's leaders are to have "a wide compassion for humanity", which does not put off doing kindnesses. (Think here of Jewish mitzvot ; it's about going beyond merely doing good, into being someone who is characterized by doing good, to honor God and for the sake of others.) He, like Paul, also writes about what is not a part of this character: gossip, the undermining of others, easily believing ill of others, loose sexual behavior, empty speech, quick temper, and most especially the eagerness for money.

The early Protestant pietists shared this concern. They knew from Scripture that if the Spirit is at home in someone, that person will start taking on the characteristics described as the fruit of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit works to change Christians so they have the depth of character the Bible talks about. It's not automatic or sudden. Like everything else in this broken world and its broken people, it's something that arises only in part, not completely, in this life. We are always 'under construction', just like any good web site is. The Spirit never leaves "well enough" alone, but is always working for something better.

Many later pietists and Holiness believers, unfortunately, forgot how deeply marred we are by sin, and saw failure to live in these 'fruit' as proof that the Spirit was not at work. This resulted in a new legalism made of a decision to obey behavioral rules rooted in law, not in a soul which grew through the Spirit's work to bear good fruit.

You don't need to turn to the Law to give rise to character in ourselves and our children. You need to turn to the Spirit, and trust that the Spirit will be working overtime to change you, working literally till Kingdom come, refashioning you so you become like Christ.

The early church understood this. They didn't go around saying they had the Holy Spirit and thus needed no human teachers. They instead took each other aside and corrected each other, and those who understood the Christian way best (especially the apostles) taught it to the others. They accepted their responsibility for spiritual growth in their fellow believers. Even the apostles were not above correction, as Paul so sharply points out in Galatians. They understood that by way of mutual education and the use of discernment, in the power of the Holy Spirit, they could grow as Christians. The evidence of growth was the fruit. The "fullness of the Spirit" is when the gifts are applied fruit-fully.
Back to Top
Fruit for Reconciliation and Unity

Unity is a fruit of the Spirit, found in the "one anothers" of Colossians. But it is not always immediately so. Jesus' work set father against son and mother against daughter, and the Spirit takes after Jesus' ministry. In Acts 15, even though the Jerusalem Council was being guided by the Spirit, division arose. It takes some wrestling with the matter, a struggling done with an attitude of submission, of 'show us, Spirit!'. While this is going on, we may differ, even vigorously. But the disagreement itself can be part of the process the Spirit uses to get the matter sorted out.

Often what results is a surprising unity, in which we have spiritually grown and stepped toward the future in a vision for mission. Sometimes the disunity may represent differing paths which may have to co-exist in tension, at least for a while, to inform and correct each other. Either result can be fully in keeping with the Spirit's work. Where there is such tension, the Spirit brings reconciliation.

The organism of believers known as the Christian Church is able to hold, and to benefit from, the human race's many cultures, outlooks, theologies, histories and styles. Yet the Church can only be truly catholic ('of the whole') when it embraces and sustains the whole truth. It means not just being broad in most ways, it also means being clear about what to reject.

Conformity and uniformity tend to be deadening, but at specific times may be crucial to the task at hand. Try, for instance, fighting to defend one's country against invaders. If everyone had a different type of gun, the supply of munitions would be impossible and the nation would fall. Or, can you picture how repairs would be done if every individual car's parts were all unique to that particular car? The core identity of the Christian faith is what identifies church from non-church, it is what allows us to operate together, even for a moment, even on any one matter, as if we were one body. In a way, we are, or so says the Bible.

The fruit of the Spirit are like most things from God, in that they are both a personal way of life and a corporate way of life. The fruit don't have a 'communal' or 'individual' side; one is the other. It is in this way of life that Christ will be seen by others.


RECAP

1. You can't be godly apart from the Spirit; you're just not at that level, and not that kind of good.
2. As a matter of our nature, we are hell-bent on getting what we desire. Even the best side of you gets twisted by this inner drive.
3. God has a very different way, and wants you to follow it. Since you can't, the Spirit grows you up, cleans you up, and makes good ('fruit') come from you, in the manner of Jesus Christ.
4. Where there are 'the fruit of the Spirit', the Spirit is at work. You can put your trust in this truth.
5. Each person in the Spirit has the fruit differently, and each fruit has a different shape in each person -- but all the spiritual fruits will show themselves in each Christian as he or she goes deeper into their walk with the Spirit.



If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
~ Gensha

Wide Open Bible Forum - - - - Many Paths



You delete my message to Pam trying to help her marriage with you and yet you leave both Pam's and Jackie's message lie about me stand. That's hypocrysy Mondo, that's bias favoritism. Sad.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

February 17th, 2010, 3:18 pm #6


Right on cue...


Oh woe are the victims and the down-trodden.

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Pam
Pam

February 17th, 2010, 3:28 pm #7

You delete my message to Pam trying to help her marriage with you and yet you leave both Pam's and Jackie's message lie about me stand. That's hypocrysy Mondo, that's bias favoritism. Sad.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal
My post from yesterday read:

"I mean really, how do you even try to discuss something like this with Nucc. It wouldn't matter if I started attending church tonight and convinced Mondo to go with me as time went on...he'd still never believe Mondo's intentions were sincere."


So where did I lie? Seriously Nucc, even if I could make myself turn the corner tomorrow and pick up the bible and take the steps I needed to move towards faith in God, you would never be satisfied with Mondo's efforts if he decided to join me.

I've read those passages you quoted yesterday Nucc but I myself, have issues with them and I've always had issues with them even before I got married so don't you dare try and pin all of this on Mondo.

I tried church Nucc, I tried Alpha, I tried it on my own and I tried it with friends and it just doesn't work for me. I have too many unanswered questions about the God of the bible to be able to just blindly have faith.

I envy those who can and do but I am not there yet.

Stop browbeating Nucc and try an actual discussion for a change. I know you are capable of it. You just can't separate yourself from who I am married to so that you can have a reasonable discussion without the personal attacks.

I am open for a civil discussion with anyone and that includes you. If you truly want to bring people to the Lord, look at your approach and stop leaning on the righteous anger crutch. I sincerely doubt if Jesus came to my house today to talk to me that he'd talk to me the way you do.

Think on that.

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Joined: October 1st, 2006, 10:04 am

February 17th, 2010, 4:18 pm #8

You delete my message to Pam trying to help her marriage with you and yet you leave both Pam's and Jackie's message lie about me stand. That's hypocrysy Mondo, that's bias favoritism. Sad.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal
Sincerely, how?

I am not in the business of lying. A mistake / misinterpretation somewhere?

When will you realise that just because each is unique and have their own interpretations about God and Jesus and feel happy and free to share these feelings, it is NOT lying? You see them / us as mistaken and we see you as mistaken. So what? You are still YOU and we are still US.

We commune with Source / God in our own ways. We commune with Jesus / Yeshua in our own ways.

"What lies before us and what lies beyond us is tiny compared to what lies within us."


Love
Jackie


Know Thyself
Last edited by BlueJudah on February 17th, 2010, 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 1st, 2006, 10:04 am

February 17th, 2010, 4:22 pm #9

"Oh, Great Spirit, whose voice I hear in the wind,

Whose breath gives life to all the world.

Hear me; I need your strength and wisdom.

Let me walk in beauty, and make my eyes ever behold the red and purple sunset.

Make my hands respect the things you have made and my ears sharp to hear your voice

Make me wise so that I may understand the things you have taught my people.

Help me to remain calm and strong in the face of all that comes towards me.

Let me learn the lessons you have hidden in every leaf and rock.

Help me seek pure thoughts and act with the intention of helping others.

Help me find compassion without empathy overwhelming me.

I seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy

Myself.

Make me always ready to come to you with clean hands and straight eyes.

So when life fades, as the fading sunset, my spirit may come to you without shame.


Many Names, Many Paths, ALL are ONE

Love
Jackie


Know Thyself
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Joined: October 20th, 2007, 5:48 am

February 17th, 2010, 4:50 pm #10

You delete my message to Pam trying to help her marriage with you and yet you leave both Pam's and Jackie's message lie about me stand. That's hypocrysy Mondo, that's bias favoritism. Sad.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal
`

That's what non-Christian hypocrites do!

But he won't remove any of the filthy crap that others post,
and all the lies and defamations, et al.

Then he and the rest of his cronies insult you like they're
the proverbial creme de la creme!

And of course your buddy Noob's gotta get his own
assinine opinions in there. Mr. self-proclaimed
Christian himself, agreeing more with the people
who are headed for a LONG eternal destiny away from
Jesus Christ than he does with those of us who are
supposed to be his Brethren!

Bunch o' sad cases in these forums!

Nucc, aren't you glad that you're more worried about
Jesus's Agape` Love and approval than you are about
the love and approval of the world??

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Hugs }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am proud to call you my Brother in the Lord! Even when we
disagree on things, we still stand by one another against
the dark forces of this world!!

`




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