Nucc's Interfered Version (the NIV translation)

Nucc's Interfered Version (the NIV translation)

Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

June 20th, 2010, 4:08 pm #1


Words REMOVED in the NIV Bible from the Book of Revelation:

Rev. 1:11, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last"
Rev. 5:14, "him that liveth for ever and ever"
Rev. 14:5, "before the throne of God"
Rev. 21:24, "of them which are saved"

Words in bold (KJV) that are removed from the NIV:


Example 1


KJV Revelation 1:10-11
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lords day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last,: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

NIV 1:10-11
10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: [TEXT REMOVED HERE] "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."


Example 2


KJV Revelation 5:13-14
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever,

NIV Revelation 5:13-14
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" 14 The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped [TEXT REMOVED HERE].


Example 3


KJV Revelation 15:4-5
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

NIV Revelation 15:4-5
4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless [TEXT REMOVED HERE].


Example 4


KJV Revelation 21:23-24
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations <strong>of them which are saved, </strong>shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

NIV Revelation 21:23-24
23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations [TEXT REMOVED HERE] will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.





The NIV removes words throughout the Bible, changes words and omits elements of important doctine such as the virgin birth. Don't just take my word for it do a Web seach and make your own mind up. JB

 

Edited to fix formatting
Last edited by daat on June 20th, 2010, 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

June 20th, 2010, 4:43 pm #2

<blockquote> Example 1

KJV Revelation 1:10-11
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lords day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last,: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

NIV 1:10-11
10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: [TEXT REMOVED HERE] "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
According to Biblos.Com...
It would appear as though...
The "Alpha to Omega" reading only appears...
In the Greek Manuscript referred to as the "Stephanus Textus Receptus"...
-- (And later manuscripts which were based upon it.)

However...
That phrase Does NOT appear in...
The Byzantine/Majority Text...
Tischendorf's translation...
-- from the 5th century Greek manuscript, "Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus"
-- And, the 4th century manuscript of the "Codex Sinaiticus"
Or...
The Westcott/Hort translation...
-- from the texts of "Codex Bezae", "Vaticanus" and "Sinaiticus".

In short...
It appears to be a later addition...
And NOT a part of the Original Text...
Therefore...
The argument for leaving that phrase out...
Is a lot stronger than the argument for leaving it in.

(Surely you aren't one of those "King James ONLY" people... Are you...?)

-PRev1-
</blockquote>

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

June 20th, 2010, 4:57 pm #3


Textus Receptus explains what Alpha and Omega means ie the A to Z of the letters. The OT Hebrew has a similar saying Aleph Tav (eth, H.853) meaning the same thing and it is found in the middle of the very first verse of Genesis.

Gen 1: 1 In the beginning God created (eth = A to Z, a word untranslated, H.853) the heaven and the earth.

Elohim are very busy in Genesis 1:1 JB
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

June 20th, 2010, 5:12 pm #4

I'm just saying that it doesn't appear in ANY of the Older Manuscripts.

Therefore...
Leaving it in...
Just because you like it...
Or...
Just because it WAS a "saying" of that time...
Flies in the face of the Majority of the Evidence...
-- In the Older Manuscripts...
-- The Phrase, quite simply, does NOT Appear.

-PRev1-


President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

June 20th, 2010, 5:15 pm #5

Words REMOVED in the NIV Bible from the Book of Revelation:

Rev. 1:11, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last"
Rev. 5:14, "him that liveth for ever and ever"
Rev. 14:5, "before the throne of God"
Rev. 21:24, "of them which are saved"

Words in bold (KJV) that are removed from the NIV:


Example 1


KJV Revelation 1:10-11
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lords day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last,: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

NIV 1:10-11
10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: [TEXT REMOVED HERE] "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."


Example 2


KJV Revelation 5:13-14
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever,

NIV Revelation 5:13-14
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" 14 The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped [TEXT REMOVED HERE].


Example 3


KJV Revelation 15:4-5
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

NIV Revelation 15:4-5
4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless [TEXT REMOVED HERE].


Example 4


KJV Revelation 21:23-24
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations <strong>of them which are saved, </strong>shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

NIV Revelation 21:23-24
23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations [TEXT REMOVED HERE] will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.





The NIV removes words throughout the Bible, changes words and omits elements of important doctine such as the virgin birth. Don't just take my word for it do a Web seach and make your own mind up. JB

 

Edited to fix formatting
You're negating Bible translations that disagree with your heresies. The fact is I'm exposing your Biblical illiteracy so much that NOW your ONLY HOPE is to vainly attempt to negate Bible translations. That's what the cults do JB. So now you're going from heresy to a PURE CULTIC THINKING.

That's OK JB I have OTHER TRANSLATIONS of John 1:1.

This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the events that must soon take place. He sent an angel to present this revelation to his servant John (NLT)

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (ESV)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, (NASB)

This is the revelation of Jesus the Messiah, which God gave him to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He made it known by sending his messenger to his servant John, (ISV)

This is the revelation of Jesus Christ. God gave it to him to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He sent this revelation through his angel to his servant John. (GWT)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him so that his servants might have knowledge of the things which will quickly take place: and he sent and made it clear by his angel to his servant John; (BIBE)

The revelation given by Jesus Christ, which God granted Him, that He might make known to His servants certain events which must shortly come to pass: and He sent His angel and communicated it to His servant John. (WNT)

This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things which must happen soon, which he sent and made known by his angel to his servant, John, (WEB)

This is the Revelation of Yeshua the Messiah, which God gave him to show to his servants the things which must happen soon, which he sent and made known by his angel to his servant, Yochanan, (HNV)

1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants2 what must happen very soon. He made it clear by sending his angel to his servant John, (NET)

1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must soon happen. And Jesus sent his angel to show it to his servant John, (NCV)

God showed these things to Jesus Christ to show to his servants. These are things that must happen soon. Then God sent his angel and showed them to John, his servant. (WENT)

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (TNIV)

True Christians use ALL accepted translations in their proper context to discover the proper meaning of words that can be misinterpreted if the interpreter does NOT KNOW or does not accept the PROPER INTERPRETATION of Scripture like YOU. Your future is ONGOING SHAME just as it is NOW.


2 Tim 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth. (NAS)















"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose RIGHTEOUSNESS"." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

June 20th, 2010, 7:28 pm #6

<blockquote> Example 1

KJV Revelation 1:10-11
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lords day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last,: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

NIV 1:10-11
10 On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11 which said: [TEXT REMOVED HERE] "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
According to Biblos.Com...
It would appear as though...
The "Alpha to Omega" reading only appears...
In the Greek Manuscript referred to as the "Stephanus Textus Receptus"...
-- (And later manuscripts which were based upon it.)

However...
That phrase Does NOT appear in...
The Byzantine/Majority Text...
Tischendorf's translation...
-- from the 5th century Greek manuscript, "Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus"
-- And, the 4th century manuscript of the "Codex Sinaiticus"
Or...
The Westcott/Hort translation...
-- from the texts of "Codex Bezae", "Vaticanus" and "Sinaiticus".

In short...
It appears to be a later addition...
And NOT a part of the Original Text...
Therefore...
The argument for leaving that phrase out...
Is a lot stronger than the argument for leaving it in.

(Surely you aren't one of those "King James ONLY" people... Are you...?)

-PRev1-
</blockquote>

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
Yet, it seems to me that what NIV gained in "oldest-text-accuracy" it more than lost again ... by taking liberties with translating according to doctrines instead of true textual meaning. It strikes me as a Living Bible running in a somewhat lower gear.

-Vince
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

June 20th, 2010, 10:45 pm #7

You're negating Bible translations that disagree with your heresies. The fact is I'm exposing your Biblical illiteracy so much that NOW your ONLY HOPE is to vainly attempt to negate Bible translations. That's what the cults do JB. So now you're going from heresy to a PURE CULTIC THINKING.

That's OK JB I have OTHER TRANSLATIONS of John 1:1.

This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants the events that must soon take place. He sent an angel to present this revelation to his servant John (NLT)

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (ESV)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, (NASB)

This is the revelation of Jesus the Messiah, which God gave him to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He made it known by sending his messenger to his servant John, (ISV)

This is the revelation of Jesus Christ. God gave it to him to show his servants the things that must happen soon. He sent this revelation through his angel to his servant John. (GWT)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave him so that his servants might have knowledge of the things which will quickly take place: and he sent and made it clear by his angel to his servant John; (BIBE)

The revelation given by Jesus Christ, which God granted Him, that He might make known to His servants certain events which must shortly come to pass: and He sent His angel and communicated it to His servant John. (WNT)

This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things which must happen soon, which he sent and made known by his angel to his servant, John, (WEB)

This is the Revelation of Yeshua the Messiah, which God gave him to show to his servants the things which must happen soon, which he sent and made known by his angel to his servant, Yochanan, (HNV)

1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants2 what must happen very soon. He made it clear by sending his angel to his servant John, (NET)

1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must soon happen. And Jesus sent his angel to show it to his servant John, (NCV)

God showed these things to Jesus Christ to show to his servants. These are things that must happen soon. Then God sent his angel and showed them to John, his servant. (WENT)

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, (TNIV)

True Christians use ALL accepted translations in their proper context to discover the proper meaning of words that can be misinterpreted if the interpreter does NOT KNOW or does not accept the PROPER INTERPRETATION of Scripture like YOU. Your future is ONGOING SHAME just as it is NOW.


2 Tim 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth. (NAS)















"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose RIGHTEOUSNESS"." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
From the author of the famous Young's Analytical Concordance:


<table border="0"><tr valign="top"><td> </td><td>
A revelation of Jesus Christ, that God gave to him, to shew to his servants what things it behoveth to come to pass quickly; and he did <strong>signify</strong> [it], having sent through his messenger to his servant John, (Rev. 1:1 YLT)

Young's LITERAL Translation.

The easy reading versions you quoted are designed for people who don't want to think about what they are reading. JB
</td></tr></table>
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

June 20th, 2010, 10:49 pm #8

Yet, it seems to me that what NIV gained in "oldest-text-accuracy" it more than lost again ... by taking liberties with translating according to doctrines instead of true textual meaning. It strikes me as a Living Bible running in a somewhat lower gear.

-Vince
doesn't prove that it is an <strong>accurate</strong> manuscript. I have old books that are in mint condition because they where not worth reading. Textus Receptus was the most common text in use during the Byzantine period. JB
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

June 20th, 2010, 10:50 pm #9

I'm just saying that it doesn't appear in ANY of the Older Manuscripts.

Therefore...
Leaving it in...
Just because you like it...
Or...
Just because it WAS a "saying" of that time...
Flies in the face of the Majority of the Evidence...
-- In the Older Manuscripts...
-- The Phrase, quite simply, does NOT Appear.

-PRev1-


President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
the 'oldest' question below. JB
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

June 21st, 2010, 12:51 am #10

doesn't prove that it is an <strong>accurate</strong> manuscript. I have old books that are in mint condition because they where not worth reading. Textus Receptus was the most common text in use during the Byzantine period. JB
In contradiction of the inclusion of the phrase...?
-- An argument could be made for inclusion.

But, that is not the case.

And...
If even ONE Single, "Older" Manuscript were to appear...
With the phrase included, in situ...
-- That would also provide the basis for an argument in support of the inclusion.

However, that is not the case either.

Of the Multiple Versions of Older Manuscripts...
-- ALL Attest to a reading that does Not include the "Alpha and Omega" phrase.
While...
ONLY the Stephanus Textus Receptus and LATER Texts Based Upon It...
-- Support the inclusion.

Just because it was "common"...
-- Doesn't mean it was "better".
And...
An Error Multiplied...
-- Is still an Error.

The argument here is that...
Since the Phrase provides Obvious Support...
For the Traditional, Orthodox Doctrine...
Then...
IF the Phrase HAD Existed in the original manuscripts...
The Scribes would have been more likely to have Included it in their copies...
-- Than they would have been to have left it out by accident.
Because...
Leaving OUT such a phrase...
Would Detract from the "strength" of the Traditional, Orthodox Doctrine...
And, Such an Error would have been caught and corrected...
Long before "Stephanus" (a latinization of his real name, Etienne) came along in 1550.

Aside from that...
The Texts that Etienne worked from were merely...
-- "copies of copies of copies of copies of copies."
-- [Biblicist.Org].


Meanwhile...
<blockquote>The 21st century has seen a rise in criticism of Erasmus, particularly among Greek Scholars like Dr. Leslie McFall. McFall's research has demonstrated wilful changes to the original Greek texts by Erasmus to significantly change the meanings of the Scriptures.
-- [Wikipedia: Desiderius Erasmus]
[Erasmus] was not a Reformed Christian. He was brought up in the Catholic Church but, like the Reformers, he became disillusioned with the Catholic Churchs teaching on a number of issues, one of which was their insistence that Jesus did not permit divorce or remarriage. Erasmus was extremely angry at the dogmatic stance of the Church over this teaching. He believed that divorce was justified in the case of adultery, so when he came to produce the first published edition of the Greek New Testament, he deliberately added EI before MH in Matthew 19:9 to allow divorce for adultery despite the fact that the three manuscripts which he used did not contain it. Not content with changing the Greek text, Erasmus also changed the Latin Vulgate, which was the Bible of the Roman Catholic Church. The Vulgate read: And I say to you that whosoever shall put away [Latin: dimiserit] his wife, such as [nisi4 ] for fornication [Latin: fornicationem], and shall marry another, committeth adultery. Erasmus altered this to read: And I say to you that whosoever shall repudiate [Latin: repudiauerit] his wife, except [nisi] it be for disgrace [Latin: stuprum], and shall marry another, committeth adultery. By changing fornicationem to stuprum, Erasmus widened his exceptive clause from the specific sin of fornication, to the general, catch-all phrase of anything that gives ground for dishonour, disgrace, defilement, unchastity, debauchery, lewdness, and violation,5 all of which are the meanings given to stuprum in the Oxford Latin Dictionary. Suddenly, Erasmus offered divorce not just on sexual grounds (for fornication), but for any cause that gave rise to dishonour or disgrace, which may not necessarily be sexual, such as abuse or neglect or anything that a partner feels angry about.
-- [ THE BIBLICAL TEACHING ON DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE -- PDF ]
It has been shown that Etienne wasn't averse to adding a little "Textual Editing" of his own.

And...
Erasmus only had one manuscript for the book of Revelation. This manuscript was missing the last page and thus he had no access to the last six verses of the book. Erasmus then used the Latin Vulgate, translated these verses into Greek and included it in his Greek New Testament! Needless to say, the Greek readings of Erasmus on this six verses has no parallel anywhere among the Greek manuscripts. However these last six verses are still present in current editions of the Textus Receptus.
-- [ New Testament Manuscripts and Text Types ]
Etienne was hindered by the accessibility of a very scant selection of texts.
Whereas, the Editors and Translators of our more modern editions...
Have a much wider and far older selection of manuscripts to use...
-- In their comparative samplings of the text..

And so...
The argument in favour of exclusion of the phrase...
-- Is strengthened even further.

-PRev1-
</blockquote>

President Barrack Hussein Obama

-- Nobel Peace Prize, 2009 --
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
-- George Orwell, "1984" --
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