Let's explore some logic and reasoning.

Let's explore some logic and reasoning.

Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

February 6th, 2011, 3:34 pm #1



A person that expresses contempt and disdain for religious people and religious beliefs decides that they are going to pray to the God that those same religious people believe in.

Then said person claims...
- That the prayers were sincere.
- That they expect the prayers to be answered.
- That whatever the answer, that answer will demonstrate something.

The logic is clear as crystal... This person is dishonest, and a complete moron.

So they were correct in one sense. This does demonstrate quite well that only a foolish person would attempt such a ridiculous thing. Interesting that is says that in the Bible is well... Ironic, even.

I hope that persons like this keep posting such nonsense. It is rather entertaining to watch stupid people pretend to be smart.
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

February 6th, 2011, 4:00 pm #2

To Fox news inviting guests to come on and explain themselves -CLAIMING THAT ... they want to find out what the guests have to say!~

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xvip ... y-and_news

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xvip ... y-and_news

-Vince
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Seoc Colla
Seoc Colla

February 6th, 2011, 5:50 pm #3


A person that expresses contempt and disdain for religious people and religious beliefs decides that they are going to pray to the God that those same religious people believe in.

Then said person claims...
- That the prayers were sincere.
- That they expect the prayers to be answered.
- That whatever the answer, that answer will demonstrate something.

The logic is clear as crystal... This person is dishonest, and a complete moron.

So they were correct in one sense. This does demonstrate quite well that only a foolish person would attempt such a ridiculous thing. Interesting that is says that in the Bible is well... Ironic, even.

I hope that persons like this keep posting such nonsense. It is rather entertaining to watch stupid people pretend to be smart.
Couldn't people who do hold sincere doctrinal beliefs also engage in prayer to bring about beneficial change to impoverished groups?
It might even change how the whole subject is viewed, demonstrating that a particular god can and will improve life for the better in response to sincere request.
Perhaps such an outcome is not possible - although some folk claim that it is - instead depending on Divine Natural Laws being immutable in response to prayer.

Which in turn, would raise the question as to the efficacy of such requests.

Wasn't a study done some years back, in which religious groups offered to pray for hositalised people and they refused to allow Muslim religious groups to participate?
Which in turn seems to suggest the existence of different dogmatic groups each having a different god?
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

February 6th, 2011, 5:55 pm #4


A person that expresses contempt and disdain for religious people and religious beliefs decides that they are going to pray to the God that those same religious people believe in.

Then said person claims...
- That the prayers were sincere.
- That they expect the prayers to be answered.
- That whatever the answer, that answer will demonstrate something.

The logic is clear as crystal... This person is dishonest, and a complete moron.

So they were correct in one sense. This does demonstrate quite well that only a foolish person would attempt such a ridiculous thing. Interesting that is says that in the Bible is well... Ironic, even.

I hope that persons like this keep posting such nonsense. It is rather entertaining to watch stupid people pretend to be smart.
 

In the realm of logic, "valid" means that premises necessarily follow from eachother (inference).

In the realm of reasoning, "sound" means that premises are true (unambiguously).

In the realm of argumentation, "deductive" means deducing from the general to the specific.

argument

a disagreement or method of reasoning
wherein a set of statements mean to
establish a definite proposition whilst logic
serves as the means to evaluate the quality
of ratiocination applied as to determine whether
the conclusion reached or offered is valid, or not


-it is not what you know that matters, it is what you can show true that does - after all .....
truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ..... mere opinion-


New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... tworks.gif">
Last edited by JVH on February 6th, 2011, 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

February 6th, 2011, 6:03 pm #5

Couldn't people who do hold sincere doctrinal beliefs also engage in prayer to bring about beneficial change to impoverished groups?
It might even change how the whole subject is viewed, demonstrating that a particular god can and will improve life for the better in response to sincere request.
Perhaps such an outcome is not possible - although some folk claim that it is - instead depending on Divine Natural Laws being immutable in response to prayer.

Which in turn, would raise the question as to the efficacy of such requests.

Wasn't a study done some years back, in which religious groups offered to pray for hositalised people and they refused to allow Muslim religious groups to participate?
Which in turn seems to suggest the existence of different dogmatic groups each having a different god?
 

.... don't you think that devout believers would've prayed all the bad stuff gone already?


-it is not what you know that matters, it is what you can show true that does - after all .....
truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ..... mere opinion-


New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

February 6th, 2011, 6:48 pm #6


A person that expresses contempt and disdain for religious people and religious beliefs decides that they are going to pray to the God that those same religious people believe in.

Then said person claims...
- That the prayers were sincere.
- That they expect the prayers to be answered.
- That whatever the answer, that answer will demonstrate something.

The logic is clear as crystal... This person is dishonest, and a complete moron.

So they were correct in one sense. This does demonstrate quite well that only a foolish person would attempt such a ridiculous thing. Interesting that is says that in the Bible is well... Ironic, even.

I hope that persons like this keep posting such nonsense. It is rather entertaining to watch stupid people pretend to be smart.
It's a game and as such, could be viewed as dishonest. I believe the Bible does speak of faith and prayer together.

Regardless, there is another point that is raised. "Is prayer effective?" Because I have to think that many believers have prayed similarly to JVH, and had the same result.

Maybe that is the wrong question too. "Is prayer effective?"

Things are the way they are, and it doesn't seem that simply praying about things changes much. We humans tend as a group to have messed things up. I see humans that by and large are good people. And humans that by and large, are selfish, and ultimately this is evil as it is harmful to other humans, living things, and the Earth.

I don't think God is in the business of performing miracles. He gave us the tools and it is up to us to perform them.

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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

February 6th, 2011, 7:40 pm #7

 

In the realm of logic, "valid" means that premises necessarily follow from eachother (inference).

In the realm of reasoning, "sound" means that premises are true (unambiguously).

In the realm of argumentation, "deductive" means deducing from the general to the specific.

argument

a disagreement or method of reasoning
wherein a set of statements mean to
establish a definite proposition whilst logic
serves as the means to evaluate the quality
of ratiocination applied as to determine whether
the conclusion reached or offered is valid, or not


-it is not what you know that matters, it is what you can show true that does - after all .....
truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ..... mere opinion-


New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... tworks.gif">
And the subject spews more pseudo-intellectual-bullshit in his continued efforts to somehow demonstrate his superiority...

However... Sadly... EPIC FAILURE.

".... when ardent believers -in whatever- are confronted with incontestables, they either go silent; (more) illogical; in denial or turn silly; childish; unreasonable; dishonest; personal; abusive; absurd even ... in any combination thereof ... and cannot seem to help themselves but display it, thus advertise it, therewith granting the courtesy of instant clarification."


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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

February 6th, 2011, 7:46 pm #8

It's a game and as such, could be viewed as dishonest. I believe the Bible does speak of faith and prayer together.

Regardless, there is another point that is raised. "Is prayer effective?" Because I have to think that many believers have prayed similarly to JVH, and had the same result.

Maybe that is the wrong question too. "Is prayer effective?"

Things are the way they are, and it doesn't seem that simply praying about things changes much. We humans tend as a group to have messed things up. I see humans that by and large are good people. And humans that by and large, are selfish, and ultimately this is evil as it is harmful to other humans, living things, and the Earth.

I don't think God is in the business of performing miracles. He gave us the tools and it is up to us to perform them.
I believe, and have experienced, that "proper prayer" is highly effective. "Proper prayer" not being selfish begging for unrealistic results as what was put forth as an example. The trick seems to be that "proper prayer" is one of those things that exhibits Tao-ish characteristics. The "proper prayer" that you can explain to others is not a "proper prayer". Few folks understand such basic constructs it seems.
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Joined: October 1st, 2006, 10:04 am

February 6th, 2011, 8:59 pm #9

It's a game and as such, could be viewed as dishonest. I believe the Bible does speak of faith and prayer together.

Regardless, there is another point that is raised. "Is prayer effective?" Because I have to think that many believers have prayed similarly to JVH, and had the same result.

Maybe that is the wrong question too. "Is prayer effective?"

Things are the way they are, and it doesn't seem that simply praying about things changes much. We humans tend as a group to have messed things up. I see humans that by and large are good people. And humans that by and large, are selfish, and ultimately this is evil as it is harmful to other humans, living things, and the Earth.

I don't think God is in the business of performing miracles. He gave us the tools and it is up to us to perform them.
"He gave us the tools and it is up to us to perform them."

That's it, in a nutshell!



Love
Jackie






Work with your own inner power then unite with others who have done the same!
Put some graft into folks!!








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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

February 6th, 2011, 9:26 pm #10

I believe, and have experienced, that "proper prayer" is highly effective. "Proper prayer" not being selfish begging for unrealistic results as what was put forth as an example. The trick seems to be that "proper prayer" is one of those things that exhibits Tao-ish characteristics. The "proper prayer" that you can explain to others is not a "proper prayer". Few folks understand such basic constructs it seems.
Got this in my inbox today.

Seems apropos -- re: prayer


"Instead of anxiously craving rewards, let cosmic principles
change your idea of what it means to be rewarded, for beyond
human rewards is the True Reward."
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