If Jesus was real why don't the Jews even believe?....

If Jesus was real why don't the Jews even believe?....

Tim
Tim

March 10th, 2011, 7:48 am #1

After the crucifixion Jesus lay dead in to tomb and the Elders spoke with the soldiers....
Matthew 28:12
12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers,
13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept.
14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you.
15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day.

Bro Tim
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

March 10th, 2011, 8:46 am #2


 

Since the bible is supposed to be inerrant, Mark, Matthew, Luke and John should tale exactly the same thing about the one and the same event(s). According to the gospels themselves they don't. 

 

Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand?

<strong>They stood far away </strong>Matthew 27 Mark 15 Luke 23

<strong>They stood near the cross </strong>John 19

 

How many women came to the sepulchre?
One John 20
Two Matthew 28

Three Mark 16

Five or more Luke 24

 

Who did the women see at the tomb?

An angel Matthew 28 

A young man Mark 16 

Two men Luke 24 

Two men and two angels John 20

 

Don't we just love biblical inerrancy.


-it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
after all, truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ... mere conjecture-


New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
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Last edited by JVH on March 10th, 2011, 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tim
Tim

March 10th, 2011, 9:50 am #3

Too trivial 8dj. You know two different people will report different small details about the same event.

You'll have to ask St Yvonne, I'm sure she will explain it to you in more detail then you imagined possible. Her explanations always amaze me.

Tim

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Yvonne/Zafana
Yvonne/Zafana

March 10th, 2011, 12:27 pm #4

 

Since the bible is supposed to be inerrant, Mark, Matthew, Luke and John should tale exactly the same thing about the one and the same event(s). According to the gospels themselves they don't. 

 

Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand?

<strong>They stood far away </strong>Matthew 27 Mark 15 Luke 23

<strong>They stood near the cross </strong>John 19

 

How many women came to the sepulchre?
One John 20
Two Matthew 28

Three Mark 16

Five or more Luke 24

 

Who did the women see at the tomb?

An angel Matthew 28 

A young man Mark 16 

Two men Luke 24 

Two men and two angels John 20

 

Don't we just love biblical inerrancy.


-it is not what we (think we) know that matters, it is what we can show true that does
after all, truth is demonstrably fact and fact is demonstrably true - everything else ... mere conjecture-


New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... tworks.gif">
Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand?

They stood far away Matthew 27 Mark 15 Luke 23

They stood near the cross John 19



How many women came to the sepulchre?

One John 20
Two Matthew 28

Three Mark 16

Five or more Luke 24



Who did the women see at the tomb?

An angel Matthew 28

A young man Mark 16

Two men Luke 24

Two men and two angels John 20



Don't we just love biblical inerrancy.



The four gospels represent the four levels of recreation within the soul:

The first level Mathew (gift of Yah) is to Israel and here we see the geneology of Jesus from Abraham to Mary and Joseph: The women (representing Israel the woman who brings for the seed Jesus Christ) see an angel, and this is the angel of the Lord that surrounds the soul of those who fear him.

Mark (a defense) is the second level of the soul and represents the level of receiving the "new man" which is why we see the young man....this is the level of receiving the "mind of Christ" who is a defense for us.

Luke (light) is the third level that describes the light that is the LIFE of this young man now recreating his SOUL, (hence what would a man give in exchange for his soul?) In this phase the heart is renewed first.... and last

John (blessed of Yah) we see the "new mind" or the outermost part that receives everything from the first three levels: Hence the MIRROR IMAGE of both angel and man, as in let this mind be in you....and the concept of face to face....knowing as we are known:


the first three levels in us is the Lord in us and the final level is US and the LORD as ONE NEW MAN, one new creation: Hence the MAN is in the IMAGE and LIKENESS of GOD here


John represents the outermost aspect of the NEW CREATION, the most complete part of us in Christ...


thats the same reason we see an increasing number of women coming to the sepluchre as well...

women being the "souls" of Jesus Christ, since he is the SEED of the WOMAN


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Yvonne/Zafana
Yvonne/Zafana

March 10th, 2011, 12:28 pm #5

this is also why they stand at the cross the way they do


far away and 'NEAR'
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

March 10th, 2011, 12:50 pm #6

I hadn't signed in before so Ihad to make more than a few posts.....sorry


but the Jews don't believe in Jesus because they had to be scattered in exile till all the gentiles were grafted into their fallen and dead branches, ROMANS 11

so when Jesus Christ visists his people, (he is the King of Israel and comes first to the lost sheep of the house of Israel), the BRANCHES are grafted back into the "tree of life" (Christ) and this will bring both Israel and the nations grafted into them to LIFE in the resurrection from the dead:


this is Gods plan says Paul and it is amazing to him


this is why David prayed that they would not come in before the end because he wanted them to continue being scattered in order to BECOME part of the soul of all nations:

this is HOW Abraham (the woman) would be father of many nations and why CHRIST is called the "SEED" of Abraham because he is the 'SEED of this WOMAN' (Israel)

Last edited by Harpazo on March 10th, 2011, 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

March 10th, 2011, 3:17 pm #7

Where did the women watching the crucifixion stand?

They stood far away Matthew 27 Mark 15 Luke 23

They stood near the cross John 19



How many women came to the sepulchre?

One John 20
Two Matthew 28

Three Mark 16

Five or more Luke 24



Who did the women see at the tomb?

An angel Matthew 28

A young man Mark 16

Two men Luke 24

Two men and two angels John 20



Don't we just love biblical inerrancy.



The four gospels represent the four levels of recreation within the soul:

The first level Mathew (gift of Yah) is to Israel and here we see the geneology of Jesus from Abraham to Mary and Joseph: The women (representing Israel the woman who brings for the seed Jesus Christ) see an angel, and this is the angel of the Lord that surrounds the soul of those who fear him.

Mark (a defense) is the second level of the soul and represents the level of receiving the "new man" which is why we see the young man....this is the level of receiving the "mind of Christ" who is a defense for us.

Luke (light) is the third level that describes the light that is the LIFE of this young man now recreating his SOUL, (hence what would a man give in exchange for his soul?) In this phase the heart is renewed first.... and last

John (blessed of Yah) we see the "new mind" or the outermost part that receives everything from the first three levels: Hence the MIRROR IMAGE of both angel and man, as in let this mind be in you....and the concept of face to face....knowing as we are known:


the first three levels in us is the Lord in us and the final level is US and the LORD as ONE NEW MAN, one new creation: Hence the MAN is in the IMAGE and LIKENESS of GOD here


John represents the outermost aspect of the NEW CREATION, the most complete part of us in Christ...


thats the same reason we see an increasing number of women coming to the sepluchre as well...

women being the "souls" of Jesus Christ, since he is the SEED of the WOMAN

The Four Gospels...
-- Matthew...
-- Mark...
-- Luke...
and...
-- John...
Just happen to appear in the body of the NT Texts...
In Precisely the Order required...
To meet your definition of...
-- Four Levels of Consciousness.

Now...
THAT is a Remarkably Fortunate Coincidence... for you.
Because...
If they had been placed in order by when they were written...
Or...
If any of the Other Gospels...
-- Like, the Gospel of the Hebrews...
Had been included in the NT Canon...
Well...
Heck...
-- You'd have to revise your "Levels".

But...
It allll fits together...
-- Like fingers in a glove.

There are Four Gospels...
There are Four Levels...
And...
The Gospels are in such an order...
As to be Directly Corresponding...
To...
-- Those Four Levels.

Obviously...
This must be Evidence of...
-- The Divine Hand of God...!

-PRev1-
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Joined: March 4th, 2007, 4:09 pm

March 10th, 2011, 3:27 pm #8

I hadn't signed in before so Ihad to make more than a few posts.....sorry


but the Jews don't believe in Jesus because they had to be scattered in exile till all the gentiles were grafted into their fallen and dead branches, ROMANS 11

so when Jesus Christ visists his people, (he is the King of Israel and comes first to the lost sheep of the house of Israel), the BRANCHES are grafted back into the "tree of life" (Christ) and this will bring both Israel and the nations grafted into them to LIFE in the resurrection from the dead:


this is Gods plan says Paul and it is amazing to him


this is why David prayed that they would not come in before the end because he wanted them to continue being scattered in order to BECOME part of the soul of all nations:

this is HOW Abraham (the woman) would be father of many nations and why CHRIST is called the "SEED" of Abraham because he is the 'SEED of this WOMAN' (Israel)
Which "Jews" are you referring to...?

The Jews of Today...?
Or...
The Jews of 2000 years ago...?

And...
Which "Jesus" are you referring to...?

The Jesus of the Essenes...?
Jesus, the Priest/King...
Son of...
-- Mary, Daughter of the House of Aaron...
And...
-- Joseph, Son of the House of David...
-- Heir to the Throne of Israel.

Or...
The Jesus of Roman Pagani Imagination...?
Jesus, the Demi-God...
-- Born of a liason between Deity and mere mortal woman.

Or...
Some OTHER Jesus...
-- Of Your Own Creation...?

-PRev1-
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Iceman
Iceman

March 10th, 2011, 5:12 pm #9

The Four Gospels...
-- Matthew...
-- Mark...
-- Luke...
and...
-- John...
Just happen to appear in the body of the NT Texts...
In Precisely the Order required...
To meet your definition of...
-- Four Levels of Consciousness.

Now...
THAT is a Remarkably Fortunate Coincidence... for you.
Because...
If they had been placed in order by when they were written...
Or...
If any of the Other Gospels...
-- Like, the Gospel of the Hebrews...
Had been included in the NT Canon...
Well...
Heck...
-- You'd have to revise your "Levels".

But...
It allll fits together...
-- Like fingers in a glove.

There are Four Gospels...
There are Four Levels...
And...
The Gospels are in such an order...
As to be Directly Corresponding...
To...
-- Those Four Levels.

Obviously...
This must be Evidence of...
-- The Divine Hand of God...!

-PRev1-
Yep! Anyone can make anything in the bible fit anything they want. Only in that sesnse is the bible inerrant.

I actually prefer Comics.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

March 10th, 2011, 5:38 pm #10

Enjoy.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Entertainment/ ... oming.aspx

Superman's Second Coming
The parallels between the Man from Nazareth and the Man from Krypton are unmistakable.

BY: Stephen Skelton
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Adapted by the author from "The Gospel According to the World's Greatest Superhero."



Superman is the Jesus Christ of superheroes. At first glance, with the second coming of Superman upon us in the form of "Superman Returns," one might read that line and wonder just what Christian evangelicals are up to now. As one recent post on "Superman Returns" at
rottentomatoes.com

asked, "Can't we leave God out of this for once?"


It depends on who the "we" is. In this case, that line--"Superman is the Jesus Christ of superheroes"--comes from none other than the director of "Superman Returns," Bryan Singer, in an interview with
Wizard magazine

. And if those words don't carry enough Christic resonance for you, when asked what "Superman Returns" is about, Singer told Entertainment Weekly magazine, "It's a story about what happens when Messiahs come back."

One might wonder just what Singer is up to. Why are the movie makers promoting Superman as a Christ figure? One reason is because the Superman storytellers always have; that spiritual history started almost in the beginning.

In the late 1930s, we first learned the identities of the kindly Kansas couple who take in the special star child when Pa Kent turns to Ma and says, "Look Mary! It's a child." With Mary as the mother, it is little surprise later on when we learn Pa's middle name: Joseph. While Mary was later changed to Martha, Joseph continues to be Jonathan's middle name today.


In 1942, George Lowther, narrator, writer and later director of the highly successful Superman radio show wrote the first Superman novel, "The Adventures of Superman." In his novel, Lowther gave Superman and his father the last name of "El"--a Hebrew word for God. So from that point forward, with the father christened Jor-El and the son christened Kal-El, the Superman story became one of El (God) the father sending El (God) the son to save the Earth.


In 1952, George Reeves began his run in "The Adventures of Superman" television show. As Superman comic book writer/artist Jerry Ordway described, Reeves was "the fatherly Superman... mainly because Jack Larson's Jimmy Olsen character was so integral to the plot." As the son who represents a father, Reeves became--in the words he used at the beginning of each episode--the embodiment of that "strange visitor... who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men." Of course, we're still talking about Superman.


In 1978, "Superman: The Movie" made explicit much of the symbolism linking Superman to Christ. So said Tom Mankiewicz, the writer of the movie, on the film's DVD: "The metaphor was clearly there when Jor-El sends Superman to Earth with God sending Christ to save humanity."


Among the many Gospel-inspired story elements, the film also incorporates the journey into the wilderness--like Christ going into the desert, Clark goes into the artic. There, Clark builds the Fortress of Solitude, which looks like a cathedral, to commune with the spirit of his father. He will emerge for his mission at age 30--the same age that Christ began his public ministry.


In 1992, in the "Death of Superman" comic book storyline, Superman dies. The death issue sold an astonishing six million copies, making it the best-selling comic book ever. The murderous villain responsible for our Christ-figure's demise was called Doomsday: The Armageddon Creature--and if that doesn't ring a biblical bell, after you finish this article, please turn in your Bible to the Book of Revelation.


After Superman's death, it was only a short time later that his tomb was found empty. But don't take my word for it. To quote Lois Lane, "Oh Lord! It's empty! His tomb is empty!" And sure enough, after his literal death, Superman was literally resurrected to life. Good thing too, because neither his story, nor his re-telling of the Gospel story, was finished yet.


From 2001 to present, "Smallville" has been chronicling the beginning of the never-ending battle for truth and justice. Notably, in the pilot episode--with a nod to the Passion story--Clark winds up on a cross: The school bullies inadvertently get Clark around kryptonite, and in his weakened state, he is unable to resist as they tie him to a scarecrow mast in the middle of a cornfield. "I thought there were a lot of metaphors between Clark and Jesus, actually," commented David Nutter, director of the episode. "And I tried to throw in as many of them as I could."


Now, momentously, with the first Superman movie in nearly 20 years, Superman returns. As director Bryan Singer sums up, "There's definitely an allegory--a Judeo-Christian allegory--that's happening in the mythology of Superman, right up to the fact that he descends from the heavens." Here he's descending for the second time--an event with obvious allusions to the Second Coming.


As the storyline of the new film picks up, Superman has ascended into the heavens, returning to Krypton after the planet explodes to see if he is in fact the Only Son. The film focuses on his return, which the studio press release paints in spiritual language as "an epic journey of redemption."


To prove that point, in the movie, Lois is heard to say the almost anti-Christic line: "The world doesn't need a savior. And neither do I." To which, Superman responds, "You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior. But everyday I hear people crying for one."


That last sentiment exactly encapsulates the way in which the popularly accepted Superman story has come into being. On one side, the Superman storytellers were looking to tell the most significant story they could--and they consciously gravitated toward the Gospel story. And on the other side, the audience was responding to the most profound figure they knew--and, consciously or not, they were drawn through the symbolism of the Gospel Savior.


In closing, our reading today comes from the well-known verses--originally found in "Superman: The Movie" and repeated in the first trailer for "Superman Returns": "They can be a great people, Kal-El--they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you--my only son."


Amen.
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