Hay DL....

Hay DL....

Tim
Tim

June 12th, 2012, 4:37 am #1

Do you understand what "I AM" means? Apparently not.

I see you sign your posts as "GREATEST I AM"

The Bible says "I AM THAT I AM"
Exodus3:14
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

God hold the title "I AM THAT I AM" that no one else can hold.

Not even Jesus can honestly say "I AM THAT I AM" because Jesus was created.

Nothing created can honestly claim the title "I AM THAT I AM"

No one created God, therefor He alone claims "I AM THAT I AM"

God may as well say "I AM BECAUSE I AM AND NO ONE CREATED ME"

That's something few people or churches understand, and if you ponder it without contention towards me you might know God a little better.

Tim
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Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

June 13th, 2012, 11:36 pm #2

I do not call myself I am or I am that I am.

As to Moses, Jews recognize him as an archetype the same as Jesus and they do not read their scriptures literally.

If you insert yourself in the Moses story, you will see what he meant, or better said, what the story tellers, meant by having Moses say I am has sent me.

Hint. Jesus said,--- to Jews, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

I could be wrong but you need to listen to someone in the know. He is a Christian but I see him more as a Gnostic Christian like myself.

Regards
DL

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Tim
Tim

June 14th, 2012, 6:18 am #3

>>>>Hint. Jesus said,--- to Jews, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

Technically its gods not Gods.
Psalm82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

They were going to stone Jesus.
And Jesus refers to the old saying.
John10:33
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?



>>>>I could be wrong but you need to listen to someone in the now. He is a Christian but I see him more as a Gnostic Christian like myself.

Gnostic seems OK DL, and I mostly agree with it, but our salvation is not of our wisdom of God, but salvation is a gift that we cannot achieve.

The mechanics of it works like this....
John 5:21
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

The power of being raised immortal/quickened is not in our hands or minds.
Its decided by the Father/God and Son/Jesus who will be quickened and receive salvation.

Quickening or Born Again or Salvation refer to the same proses but technically are different views of the same event.

Quicken= Is for those who understand mechanical views.
Born Again= Birth and Body view for those who understand the body.
Salvation= Hope of Salvation is for inspiring those who only have hope.

This is really quite fascinating for me DL, your making me think

Tim



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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

June 14th, 2012, 9:39 am #4

... true enough -plural- but ...

That's only because the same word is translated as singular "God" many, many times in the Bible.

We need to consider the history of the Bible if we want to get the true meaning out of it.

The old testament was constructed in pieces over time and spanned a long time. That was written in an ancient Hebrew text which was later translated into a newer version.

When Alexander the Great took over the "holy land" ... Greek became their primary language and ancient Hebrew almost became extinct. The OTestament books (up to that time) were translated into Greek so that Jews could read their own scriptures. This translation was known as the "Greek Septuagint" and was the foundation for all "scripture" interpretation feeding into the the NTestament. The Septuagint wasn't a very accurate translation however ... which fed into the mistake made by Matthew, that a "virgin shall be with child" ... because that's what the Septuagint said in Isaiah 7:14. That's not what the original HEBREW said though ... but this error was faithfully reproduced in English translations of Hebrew Isaiah 7:14 so that the virgin birth idea wouldn't fall apart.

Anyway, my point is that ... the OTestament was originally HEBREW ... while the NTestament was originally GREEK. Therefore, we have different words in the original versions of the testaments that mean the same thing.

"gods" in Hebrew was "elohim".
"gods in Greek was "theos".

So now let's consider how OFTEN the word elohim was translated as "GOD" -into the KJV- in the OTestament ...

2346 times

as "god" ?

244 times

Jumping to the NTestament ... how often was the word "theos" translated as "GOD" into the English KJV?

1320 times

as "god"?

13 times

So you see, there is no "technically correct" GOD! It was ALWAYS gods. They simply translated it into the singular "God" with a capital G.

When Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6 ... he was saying and meaning exactly what the Septuagint and Hebrew language said: "you are gods" ... which is exactly the same thing as "you are God."

There's no difference whatsoever in the wording -in either Hebrew or Greek- between "Gods" and "gods" and "God". Only the English translation INJECTS a difference of meaning ... in order to create a SINGULAR ENTITY.

To the ancients there was no such thing as "God" being one guy. Elohim and Theos were ALWAYS the corporate entity of the gods. Only Jahveh and Father were singular.

-Vince
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June 14th, 2012, 4:54 pm #5

>>>>Hint. Jesus said,--- to Jews, have ye forgotten that ye are Gods?

Technically its gods not Gods.
Psalm82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

They were going to stone Jesus.
And Jesus refers to the old saying.
John10:33
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?



>>>>I could be wrong but you need to listen to someone in the now. He is a Christian but I see him more as a Gnostic Christian like myself.

Gnostic seems OK DL, and I mostly agree with it, but our salvation is not of our wisdom of God, but salvation is a gift that we cannot achieve.

The mechanics of it works like this....
John 5:21
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

The power of being raised immortal/quickened is not in our hands or minds.
Its decided by the Father/God and Son/Jesus who will be quickened and receive salvation.

Quickening or Born Again or Salvation refer to the same proses but technically are different views of the same event.

Quicken= Is for those who understand mechanical views.
Born Again= Birth and Body view for those who understand the body.
Salvation= Hope of Salvation is for inspiring those who only have hope.

This is really quite fascinating for me DL, your making me think

Tim


Good. I am glad you are thinking.
Then think on this and see in whose hands our salvation lies.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

All one needs do is repent from their sins and salvation is assures and actually, if you think God's will to be supreme, then none are lost and there is no need for a hell. That would be an immoral construct anyway and a good God would not create it. That is basically the Universalist Christian view.

Regards
DL
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Joined: May 16th, 2012, 12:04 am

June 14th, 2012, 4:57 pm #6

... true enough -plural- but ...

That's only because the same word is translated as singular "God" many, many times in the Bible.

We need to consider the history of the Bible if we want to get the true meaning out of it.

The old testament was constructed in pieces over time and spanned a long time. That was written in an ancient Hebrew text which was later translated into a newer version.

When Alexander the Great took over the "holy land" ... Greek became their primary language and ancient Hebrew almost became extinct. The OTestament books (up to that time) were translated into Greek so that Jews could read their own scriptures. This translation was known as the "Greek Septuagint" and was the foundation for all "scripture" interpretation feeding into the the NTestament. The Septuagint wasn't a very accurate translation however ... which fed into the mistake made by Matthew, that a "virgin shall be with child" ... because that's what the Septuagint said in Isaiah 7:14. That's not what the original HEBREW said though ... but this error was faithfully reproduced in English translations of Hebrew Isaiah 7:14 so that the virgin birth idea wouldn't fall apart.

Anyway, my point is that ... the OTestament was originally HEBREW ... while the NTestament was originally GREEK. Therefore, we have different words in the original versions of the testaments that mean the same thing.

"gods" in Hebrew was "elohim".
"gods in Greek was "theos".

So now let's consider how OFTEN the word elohim was translated as "GOD" -into the KJV- in the OTestament ...

2346 times

as "god" ?

244 times

Jumping to the NTestament ... how often was the word "theos" translated as "GOD" into the English KJV?

1320 times

as "god"?

13 times

So you see, there is no "technically correct" GOD! It was ALWAYS gods. They simply translated it into the singular "God" with a capital G.

When Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6 ... he was saying and meaning exactly what the Septuagint and Hebrew language said: "you are gods" ... which is exactly the same thing as "you are God."

There's no difference whatsoever in the wording -in either Hebrew or Greek- between "Gods" and "gods" and "God". Only the English translation INJECTS a difference of meaning ... in order to create a SINGULAR ENTITY.

To the ancients there was no such thing as "God" being one guy. Elohim and Theos were ALWAYS the corporate entity of the gods. Only Jahveh and Father were singular.

-Vince
Good research and right FMPOV.

Regards
DL
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Tim
Tim

June 15th, 2012, 5:44 am #7

as in children of God.
Therefor we are like little gods.

And the Bible tells our ability when working together and speaking the same language....
Genesis 11:6
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

But that was right after Noah's Ark, with one united settlement of people.

And look at todays world. The largest groups of people that speak the same language are limited by imagination. The smaller tribal groups speaking their own language are in the stone age. Think about it.

Tim
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Tim
Tim

June 15th, 2012, 6:11 am #8

Good. I am glad you are thinking.
Then think on this and see in whose hands our salvation lies.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

All one needs do is repent from their sins and salvation is assures and actually, if you think God's will to be supreme, then none are lost and there is no need for a hell. That would be an immoral construct anyway and a good God would not create it. That is basically the Universalist Christian view.

Regards
DL
Your rationalizing God in a human way DL, and God was never a man.
Numbers23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,



>>>>All one needs do is repent from their sins and salvation is assures and actually, if you think God's will to be supreme, then none are lost and there is no need for a hell.

Sin is to not keep the Commandments of God.

And hell was PREPARED or in other words designed.
Matthew 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Its about free will DL, and about loving one another and our Father/God the way He intended.

And hell was designed for the bad eggs.
"God is a consuming fire"
Hebrews 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.

"God is love"
1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Our Father is just like you or I, accept He is ALMIGHTY.

Tim
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

June 15th, 2012, 8:34 am #9

Tim-> [God was never a man.
Numbers23:19
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man

Our Father is just like you or I, accept He is ALMIGHTY.]


That's really "nice"!~~ A God who is just like us but ... ALMIGHTY!! That means there is no limit to the evil "he" can wreak ... since absolute power corrupts absolutely.

-Vince
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Tim
Tim

June 16th, 2012, 2:36 am #10

Your taking the negative view Vince.

And there is also no end to the love He can give us.

Tim
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