Fundy Logic 101

Fundy Logic 101

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

April 15th, 2011, 4:08 pm #1

Nucc wrote this at He Is Risen http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/).

Now, I realize it is pointless to try to reason with him, but this "logic" is so so bad .. sounds like it is based on William Lane Craig's teachings.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/p ... 1302883303

So the universe was created from nothing. If there is a beginning then there HAS TO BE A BEGINNER. God therefore exists out of necessity.

It's mind boggling that anyone would think this is "proof". Past some entertainment value, and with hopes that some thinking people might be lurking and see the sheer ignorance exposed -- there ain't no point. Is there?


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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

April 15th, 2011, 4:32 pm #2

"An argumentative spirit cannot learn."
~Vernon Howard


Well .. there ya go!

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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

April 15th, 2011, 4:57 pm #3

Nucc wrote this at He Is Risen http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/).

Now, I realize it is pointless to try to reason with him, but this "logic" is so so bad .. sounds like it is based on William Lane Craig's teachings.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/p ... 1302883303

So the universe was created from nothing. If there is a beginning then there HAS TO BE A BEGINNER. God therefore exists out of necessity.

It's mind boggling that anyone would think this is "proof". Past some entertainment value, and with hopes that some thinking people might be lurking and see the sheer ignorance exposed -- there ain't no point. Is there?

the writers of the Bible EXPERIENCED the "nothing" that comes with the regeneration: it is the experience of the end of the ego.......so God can MAKE A NEW MAN

right within the same BODY

so there is always something........but the experience of nothing is for the SOMETHING that comes out of it.to UNDERSTAND HOW GOD creates everything

and we are the instrument who experiences this within our own consciousness

don't worry, when all your consciousness is REMOVED (coming out of Egypt) you will understand what the metaphor of the Bible is about:

the letter reveals a spiritual experience that makes us witnesses of this WORD .....in our experience

till then, its all about the imagination.........atheism and theism



nobody can prove their side........

thats been established a long time ago....


for those who haven't read about the battles between the philosophers of old:
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

April 15th, 2011, 5:13 pm #4

Nucc wrote this at He Is Risen http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/).

Now, I realize it is pointless to try to reason with him, but this "logic" is so so bad .. sounds like it is based on William Lane Craig's teachings.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/p ... 1302883303

So the universe was created from nothing. If there is a beginning then there HAS TO BE A BEGINNER. God therefore exists out of necessity.

It's mind boggling that anyone would think this is "proof". Past some entertainment value, and with hopes that some thinking people might be lurking and see the sheer ignorance exposed -- there ain't no point. Is there?

On one hand, it's illogical, delusional, and completely absurd.

On the other, there's a lonely, bitter, sickly old man who carries an enormous amount of shame, guilt, and anger about the decisions he's made throughout his life. So at the end he's fighting to find some redeeming justification for his existence.

Hard to say if the latter is absurd. Or whether it is something that we should all work to be better prepared for as it part of the fate that we all have in common.


http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/lrerikson.html

Erikson (1982) represents one of the few personality theorist to examine aging as a stage of development. According to Erikson's theory, personality development goes through a series of eight, hierarchically ordered stages. Associated with each stage is a psychosocial crisis that the individual either successfully resolves or fails to resolve. Failure results in incomplete development of the personality, and inhibits further development of the personality.

The final stage of Erikson's (1982) theory is later adulthood (age 60 years and older). The crisis represented by this last life stage is integrity versus despair. Erikson (1982) proposes that this stage begins when the individual experiences a sense of mortality. This may be in response to retirement, the death of a spouse or close friends, or may simply result from changing social roles. No matter what the cause, this sense of mortality precipitates the final life crisis. The final life crisis manifests itself as a review of the individual1s life-career. Similar to Butler's (1963) life review, individuals review their life-career to determine if it was a success or failure. According to Erikson (1982), this reminiscence or introspection is most productive when experienced with significant others. The outcome of this life-career reminiscence can be either positive or negative. Ego integrity is the result of the positive resolution of the final life crisis. Ego integrity is viewed as the key to harmonious personality development; the individual views their whole of life with satisfaction and contentment. The ego quality that emerges from a positive resolution is wisdom. Erikson (1982) defines wisdom as a kind of "informed and detached concern with life itself in the face of death itself" (p. 61). Conversely, despair is the result of the negative resolution or lack of resolution of the final life crisis. This negative resolution manifests itself as a fear of death, a sense that life is too short, and depression. Despair is the last dystonic element in Erikson's (1959, 1982) theory.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

April 15th, 2011, 5:23 pm #5

Nucc wrote this at He Is Risen http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/).

Now, I realize it is pointless to try to reason with him, but this "logic" is so so bad .. sounds like it is based on William Lane Craig's teachings.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/p ... 1302883303

So the universe was created from nothing. If there is a beginning then there HAS TO BE A BEGINNER. God therefore exists out of necessity.

It's mind boggling that anyone would think this is "proof". Past some entertainment value, and with hopes that some thinking people might be lurking and see the sheer ignorance exposed -- there ain't no point. Is there?

For discussion .. this has not been settled, and may never be settled, despite some people insisting that "science says the Universe had a beginning" -- whoever "science" is.

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/DidTh ... inning.asp


The big bang theory postulates that the entire universe originated in a cosmic explosion about 15 billion years ago. Such an idea had no serious constituency until Edwin Hubble discovered the redshift of galaxy light in the 1920s, which seemed to imply an expanding universe. However, our ability to test cosmological theories has vastly improved with modern telescopes covering all wavelengths, some of them in orbit. Despite the widespread acceptance of the big bang theory as a working model for interpreting new findings, not a single important prediction of the theory has yet been confirmed, and substantial evidence has accumulated against it. Here, we examine the evidence for the most fundamental postulate of the big bang, the expansion of the universe. We conclude that the evidence does not support the theory; and that it is time to stop patching up the theory to keep it viable, and to consider fundamentally new working models for the origin and nature of the universe in better agreement with the observations.
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Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

April 15th, 2011, 5:31 pm #6

the experience of the rebirth is the BIG BANG within our own experience, which is why I say you have to experience this phenomina within you to know what it means scientifically and spiritually since they WITNESS TO ONE ANOTHER.

every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

April 15th, 2011, 5:35 pm #7

I don't see the need to draw parallels between maturation of individuals and theorized cosmology.

But that's just me.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

April 15th, 2011, 6:07 pm #8

On one hand, it's illogical, delusional, and completely absurd.

On the other, there's a lonely, bitter, sickly old man who carries an enormous amount of shame, guilt, and anger about the decisions he's made throughout his life. So at the end he's fighting to find some redeeming justification for his existence.

Hard to say if the latter is absurd. Or whether it is something that we should all work to be better prepared for as it part of the fate that we all have in common.


http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/lrerikson.html

Erikson (1982) represents one of the few personality theorist to examine aging as a stage of development. According to Erikson's theory, personality development goes through a series of eight, hierarchically ordered stages. Associated with each stage is a psychosocial crisis that the individual either successfully resolves or fails to resolve. Failure results in incomplete development of the personality, and inhibits further development of the personality.

The final stage of Erikson's (1982) theory is later adulthood (age 60 years and older). The crisis represented by this last life stage is integrity versus despair. Erikson (1982) proposes that this stage begins when the individual experiences a sense of mortality. This may be in response to retirement, the death of a spouse or close friends, or may simply result from changing social roles. No matter what the cause, this sense of mortality precipitates the final life crisis. The final life crisis manifests itself as a review of the individual1s life-career. Similar to Butler's (1963) life review, individuals review their life-career to determine if it was a success or failure. According to Erikson (1982), this reminiscence or introspection is most productive when experienced with significant others. The outcome of this life-career reminiscence can be either positive or negative. Ego integrity is the result of the positive resolution of the final life crisis. Ego integrity is viewed as the key to harmonious personality development; the individual views their whole of life with satisfaction and contentment. The ego quality that emerges from a positive resolution is wisdom. Erikson (1982) defines wisdom as a kind of "informed and detached concern with life itself in the face of death itself" (p. 61). Conversely, despair is the result of the negative resolution or lack of resolution of the final life crisis. This negative resolution manifests itself as a fear of death, a sense that life is too short, and depression. Despair is the last dystonic element in Erikson's (1959, 1982) theory.
Makes sense.

I suppose life stages are a process. In many ways I can relate to the "later adulthood" passage. I think I started early though, having existential questions as an adolescent to the point of angst and depression.

Took me a decade to put it all behind me and just live. But I think some folks just naturally ponder on "what is", and are drawn together.



peace bro
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Iceman
Iceman

April 15th, 2011, 6:12 pm #9

I don't see the need to draw parallels between maturation of individuals and theorized cosmology.

But that's just me.
I wonder how bugs ponder this question.
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Joined: September 30th, 2009, 7:55 pm

April 15th, 2011, 6:29 pm #10

Nucc wrote this at He Is Risen http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/).

Now, I realize it is pointless to try to reason with him, but this "logic" is so so bad .. sounds like it is based on William Lane Craig's teachings.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/663008/p ... 1302883303

So the universe was created from nothing. If there is a beginning then there HAS TO BE A BEGINNER. God therefore exists out of necessity.

It's mind boggling that anyone would think this is "proof". Past some entertainment value, and with hopes that some thinking people might be lurking and see the sheer ignorance exposed -- there ain't no point. Is there?

Nucc said: So the universe was created from nothing. If there is a beginning then there HAS TO BE A BEGINNER. God therefore exists out of necessity.

And, of course, this Universe-creating god is the same one he believes in, right?

It wasn't Thor. It wasn't Shiva. It wasn't Zeus. It wasn't the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It was the god that Nucc created in his image.

Funny how that works.

"Man is certainly stark mad: he cannot make a worm, yet he will make gods by the dozen." -- Michel de Montaigne

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"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion." -- Robert M. Pirsig
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