Conversation - Discussion - Debate - Speculation

Conversation - Discussion - Debate - Speculation

JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

December 16th, 2010, 8:48 am #1

<p align="center">If there is discussion, then there is bound to be disagreement because if there is no disagreement, then there is nothing to discuss.

<img alt="garland.gif" src="http://www.webweaver.nu/clipart/img/hol ... nd.gif">If people communicate, on forums as in 3D life, then they usually do so in four modes: converse, discuss, debate, speculate-->philosophize, and each of those are distinguishable due to (their) specific characteristics

Conversation is about chit chat -- exchanging pleasantries; small talk; kaffeeklatsch and so on and so forth, 'home and gardening' stuff. :^)

Discussion is about agreement/disagreement (of opinions); yes or no -- (dis)agreement (of opinions) however, doesn't render anything less or more true/false. (Dis)agreement might tell us something about the one doing the (dis)agreeing, it tells us nothing whatsoever about the thing in (dis)agreement with. Believing 'your' opinion is right is mere confidence, believing 'your' opinion is fact is sheer arrogance. Discussion then, is a means of exchanging ideas; ideally a means to establish a consensus (not a mode to establish truth-value).

Debate is about addressing right or wrong; true or false (in relation to alleged/proposed fact/truth) -- we argue for or against by offering arguments (reason) of which its values are measured by a set of rules known as reasoning and logic -respectively the method and the tool to scrutinize the method- to determine whether the arguments (reasons) offered are (un)sound and/or (in)valid. If something is true/fact(ual), then it can be shown so (proven so) due to its axiomatic nature. If something cannot be shown true/fact(ual) (to be axiomatic), then we simply do not know it to be so and remains undetermined.





A problem arises if we mix up the latter two modes; when statement of opinion is deemed statement of fact and vice versa: when we say "I (dis)agree" while we mean "that is (not) true or when we say "that is (not) true" while we mean "I (dis)agree". What matters in debate is whether the reasoning is sound; justifying the premises, and whether the argument form is valid; proper inference.

An argument that is deductive, valid and sound is an argument that ends up with a true conclusion, and there is nothing you, me, anyone, can do about it no matter how disturbing, how counter-intuitive, how emotionally unsatisfying the conclusion (is deemed).



Speculation is about conjecture; hypothesizing, philosophising at best -- anything goes (parallel/lateral thinking/reasoning) as long as proper inference is being applied because without it, speculation becomes 'fried air' since hypothesizing is meant to propose possibilities/probabilities in relation to a given (the subject matter).




And erm ... feelings do not think, thoughts do not feel, and the human brain can only comprehend three categories to put information in.



<strong>Note:</strong> If a deductive argument that is valid and sound does not end up with a true conclusion, then the problem does not lie with the argument.


<img alt="christmas_animated_gifs_26.gif" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... ifs_26.gif">http://www.philosophypages.com/lg/index.htm


- truth is something that can be demonstrated to be fact and fact is something that can be demonstrated to be true -

New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
Quote
Like
Share

Tim
Tim

December 16th, 2010, 9:28 am #2

There is right and wrong JVH.
Its not about words.

I assume no one has done you wrong JVH, like steel from you.
Or abuse you physically.

Don't assume you have understood the feeling and understanding of those who have been tortured nor those who have suffered from healthy life into the grave.

You don't need to live it. Just imagine having children of your own being abused to the point of death. Your own daughter or boy being killed while sick men enjoy and have pleasure.

Your mother or daughter or sister being violated to death!
Why would you need to live it to understand it JVH?
Quote
Share

JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

December 16th, 2010, 11:44 am #3

<p align="center">We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are

<img alt="garland-3.gif" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... land-3.gif">
<p align="center">*
<p align="left"><span class="yellowFade"><span><span class="FadeWordContainer">Psychological</span></span></span> <span class="yellowFade"><span><span class="FadeWordContainer">Projection</span></span></span> is a form of defense mechanism by which someone attributes thoughts, feelings and ideas which are perceived as undesirable by and in self, to another.
<p align="left">In a general sense, <span class="yellowFade"><span><span class="FadeWordContainer">psychological</span></span></span> <span class="yellowFade"><span><span class="FadeWordContainer">projection</span></span></span> can mean that people assume that other people share their thoughts and beliefs, good or bad. As a defense mechanism, this allows people to feel more comfortable about themselves because they think they see traits in common with others.
<p align="left">Psychological <span class="yellowFade"><span><span class="FadeWordContainer">Projection</span></span></span> may manifest in all kinds of ways, and while it may be a defense mechanism, it can also be very destructive.
<p align="left"><span class="yellowFade"><span><span class="FadeWordContainer">Projection</span></span></span> can take a range of forms. For instance, if you find that you dislike someone, you may decide that (s)he doesn't like you (in effect responding to social norms which dictate that 'people should all like each other and get along').
<p align="left">By deciding that this person doesn't like you, you can justify your decision not to like him/her, thereby setting yourself up for a self-fulfilling prophecy because most people end up disliking the people who dislike them, even if they didn't start out that way.
<p align="center">*
<p align="left">One of the most famous concepts and insights of psychological projection is that it is 'impossible' to see a particular characteristic in someone else unless we ourselves possess that same characteristic. If we don't possess a particular characteristic, then we have no concept of it; no mental, polarized, picture of it, and renders it quite difficult to identify in another.
<p align="left">For example, let's say you criticize someone as being a lazy person. Well, it would be 'impossible' for you to know or to understand what it even means to be lazy unless you yourself possessed, at least some, laziness as well.
<p align="left">Laziness is a characteristic you don't like about yourself, you see it in another, so you criticize the other as being lazy.
<p align="left">On the other hand, someone else might see the same thing as you, but instead (s)he compliments the person as being relaxed and carefree. That someone doesn't even see the laziness, (s)he isn't concerned about laziness him/herself. Instead, (s)he thinks that having a relaxed and carefree attitude is an admirable trait.
<p align="left">What you saw as a negative trait, (s)he sees as a positive trait.
<p align="left">Both you and the other saw the exact same behavior and you each "projected" your own self onto that behavior. That's just one tiny example of psychological projection.
<p align="center">*
<p align="left">If you begin to listen to what people say, that is, if you begin listening to the adjectives they use to describe other people; you will begin to see they may not be telling you anything about the other person but most definitely something about themselves.
<p align="left"><img alt="christmas_animated_gifs_26.gif" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... ifs_26.gif">
<p align="left">Tag: psychological projection


- truth is something that can be demonstrated to be fact and fact is something that can be demonstrated to be true -

New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 1st, 2006, 10:04 am

December 16th, 2010, 2:25 pm #4

I KNOW cos I started from scratch with this one and still use it now. So there!!

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value=""></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


Love
Jackie


"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things."

Quote
Like
Share