Can a free thinker be a theist?

Can a free thinker be a theist?

Joined: May 4th, 2005, 1:31 pm

August 3rd, 2010, 4:48 am #1

I believe the answer is yes. Below JVH wrote:

"It depends on what you believe
... and if you already believe, whatever, you're not open-minded; you're prejudiced - which isn't going to help much.
I read this to say that a theist cannot be open minded, and is prejudiced.

It sounds like perhaps this statement is prejudicial. To suggest that a believer is prejudiced by nature.

Below I replied to JVH's statement:

If an earnest search by an open-minded person results in them becoming a person of faith, in my view they have not lost their "open mind", but their open mind has lead them to a personal truth.

This is certainly how it seems to me. That an earnest and open minded search for truth can result in a logical believe in a God, or a source. That this search resulted in a conclusion does not suddenly "shut" the mind of the seeker. I also believe that it is a philosophically sound conclusion to determine that there is no God. I think both the atheist and the theist have sound logic. We're all wired differently so reach different conclusions on many things.

Anyway, I believe that a theist can be every bit as open (or closed) minded as an atheist.




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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

August 3rd, 2010, 5:07 am #2



<p align="right">The logician: 'here are the demonstrable facts, what conclusion can we draw from them?'
The believer: 'here is the conclusion, what alleged facts can we conjure to justify it?'




Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that opinions should be formed on the basis of logic, reason and science (to a certain extend).

Theism is a viewpoint influenced by authority, tradition and dogma.

So, what do you think, can a free thinker be a theist?


<p align="left">... abductive, inductive, deductive
are the 3 basic modes of reasoning and
when we fail to discern between them
we are destined to act accordingly ...


<p align="center">... after all, inference demands explicit entails implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...


<p align="right">... the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation thus; those oblivious of it become
indispensably the experts in applying it, effectually
revealing the exact opposite of apparent intent
thereby granting the courtesy of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles


<p align="left">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

<p align="right">_______________________
I like hu-mans. Really
They do funnee stuffs

They seems to live with the
impression that they is some
sorts of omniscient - you can
then always depend on them
to tells you exactly what your
thoughts and feelings is.

Handy
New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!


There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22

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Joined: January 13th, 2010, 2:50 pm

August 3rd, 2010, 5:13 am #3


Just sayin.
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

August 3rd, 2010, 5:20 am #4



<p align="right">The logician: 'here are the demonstrable facts, what conclusion can we draw from them?'
The believer: 'here is the conclusion, what alleged facts can we conjure to justify it?'




The "not all' connotation infers (admits) most do.

Just sayin'.


<p align="left">... abductive, inductive, deductive
are the 3 basic modes of reasoning and
when we fail to discern between them
we are destined to act accordingly ...

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... athink.gif">
<p align="center">... after all, inference demands explicit entails implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... latalk.gif">
<p align="right">... the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation thus; those oblivious of it become
indispensably the experts in applying it, effectually
revealing the exact opposite of apparent intent
thereby granting the courtesy of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... search.gif">
<p align="left">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

<p align="right">_______________________
I like hu-mans. Really
They do funnee stuffs

They seems to live with the
impression that they is some
sorts of omniscient - you can
then always depend on them
to tells you exactly what your
thoughts and feelings is.

Handy
New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!

<img alt="[linked image]" src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc31 ... s.gif">[hr]There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22

Last edited by JVH on August 3rd, 2010, 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

August 3rd, 2010, 5:42 am #5

I believe the answer is yes. Below JVH wrote:

"It depends on what you believe
... and if you already believe, whatever, you're not open-minded; you're prejudiced - which isn't going to help much.
I read this to say that a theist cannot be open minded, and is prejudiced.

It sounds like perhaps this statement is prejudicial. To suggest that a believer is prejudiced by nature.

Below I replied to JVH's statement:

If an earnest search by an open-minded person results in them becoming a person of faith, in my view they have not lost their "open mind", but their open mind has lead them to a personal truth.

This is certainly how it seems to me. That an earnest and open minded search for truth can result in a logical believe in a God, or a source. That this search resulted in a conclusion does not suddenly "shut" the mind of the seeker. I also believe that it is a philosophically sound conclusion to determine that there is no God. I think both the atheist and the theist have sound logic. We're all wired differently so reach different conclusions on many things.

Anyway, I believe that a theist can be every bit as open (or closed) minded as an atheist.



I've made the argument to atheists too ... that atheists LOOK for things in science to prove their own belief in no-god/evolution.

Any research starts off with some belief. Scientists don't come into work in the morning and reach into a cookie jar to get a suggestion for something to research that day; they follow up BELIEFS they have, in hopes of proving those beliefs or hunches correct. Often they're proved wrong and -to their credit- change their mind about what they believe but ... the starting motivation or activation is ALWAYS some kind of belief.

-Vince
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

August 3rd, 2010, 5:49 am #6



<p align="right">The logician: 'here are the demonstrable facts, what conclusion can we draw from them?'
The believer: 'here is the conclusion, what alleged facts can we conjure to justify it?'




... a non-sequitur.


<p align="left">... abductive, inductive, deductive
are the 3 basic modes of reasoning and
when we fail to discern between them
we are destined to act accordingly ...


<p align="center">... after all, inference demands explicit entails implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...


<p align="right">... the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation thus; those oblivious of it become
indispensably the experts in applying it, effectually
revealing the exact opposite of apparent intent
thereby granting the courtesy of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles


<p align="left">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

<p align="right">_______________________
I like hu-mans. Really
They do funnee stuffs

They seems to live with the
impression that they is some
sorts of omniscient - you can
then always depend on them
to tells you exactly what your
thoughts and feelings is.

Handy
New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!


There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22

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Joined: April 17th, 2006, 10:37 pm

August 3rd, 2010, 6:13 am #7

I believe the answer is yes. Below JVH wrote:

"It depends on what you believe
... and if you already believe, whatever, you're not open-minded; you're prejudiced - which isn't going to help much.
I read this to say that a theist cannot be open minded, and is prejudiced.

It sounds like perhaps this statement is prejudicial. To suggest that a believer is prejudiced by nature.

Below I replied to JVH's statement:

If an earnest search by an open-minded person results in them becoming a person of faith, in my view they have not lost their "open mind", but their open mind has lead them to a personal truth.

This is certainly how it seems to me. That an earnest and open minded search for truth can result in a logical believe in a God, or a source. That this search resulted in a conclusion does not suddenly "shut" the mind of the seeker. I also believe that it is a philosophically sound conclusion to determine that there is no God. I think both the atheist and the theist have sound logic. We're all wired differently so reach different conclusions on many things.

Anyway, I believe that a theist can be every bit as open (or closed) minded as an atheist.



otherwise..."and if you already believe, whatever, you're not open-minded; you're prejudiced - which isn't going to help much" would mean if you hold any belief at all, about anything at all -- not just about God or religion -- then you are not open-minded, you are prejudiced. How can anyone have absolutely no belief in anything at all?
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

August 3rd, 2010, 6:28 am #8



<p align="right">statements of a transcendent or immaterial nature equal incoherency as such connotations have no ontological status



Simple.

Life doesn't require for you to have beliefs. As a matter of fact, without beliefs life goes on anyway.

Bummer huh?


<p align="left">... abductive, inductive, deductive
are the 3 basic modes of reasoning and
when we fail to discern between them
we are destined to act accordingly ...


<p align="center">... after all, inference demands explicit entails implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...


<p align="right">... the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation thus; those oblivious of it become
indispensably the experts in applying it, effectually
revealing the exact opposite of apparent intent
thereby granting the courtesy of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles


<p align="left">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

<p align="right">_______________________
I like hu-mans. Really
They do funnee stuffs

They seems to live with the
impression that they is some
sorts of omniscient - you can
then always depend on them
to tells you exactly what your
thoughts and feelings is.

Handy
New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!


There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22

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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

August 3rd, 2010, 7:11 am #9

but without you ... LOL.

Show me a person who has no beliefs and you'll see a person who has no aims, no goals and is probably depressed as well.

-Vince
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JVH
Joined: July 20th, 2009, 1:33 pm

August 3rd, 2010, 8:18 am #10



<p align="right">statements of a transcendent or immaterial nature equal incoherency as such connotations have no ontological status



<em>Show me a person who has no beliefs and you'll see a person who has no aims, no goals and is probably depressed as well.</em>


A person who has no beliefs is a person who has no aims, no goals and is probably depressed as well??

You know this to be so because?


<p align="left">... abductive, inductive, deductive
are the 3 basic modes of reasoning and
when we fail to discern between them
we are destined to act accordingly ...


<p align="center">... after all, inference demands explicit entails implicit
so, iff what is explicitly posed is true, then what it
necessarily infers or implies must logically be true
as well - if not, then it is incontrovertibly axiomatic
there is something amiss with the explicitly posed ...


<p align="right">... the excruciating irony of incomprehensibility
& self-refutation thus; those oblivious of it become
indispensably the experts in applying it, effectually
revealing the exact opposite of apparent intent
thereby granting the courtesy of instant clarification.

Mice In A Maze-Going In Circles


<p align="left">It is as it is - It goes as it goes
If it doesn't go, that's how it goes
If it isn't, then that's how it is

<p align="right">_______________________
I like hu-mans. Really
They do funnee stuffs

They seems to live with the
impression that they is some
sorts of omniscient - you can
then always depend on them
to tells you exactly what your
thoughts and feelings is.

Handy
New!! Improved!! Now With T-Formula!!


There is forgiveness. Unfortunately, forgiveness doesn't mean a thing
..... when not applied that is. Therefore, it is I who forgive, publically
those who either dare or will not - for, as it seems, they are not ready
yet, to do so by themselves; out of themselves. I hereby thus, plow
the road; leading the way, for those eager to walk that walk as well.
JVH, July 20, 2010, 2:22

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