bringing it to the top: Real verses ethic Jews: trying to understand the mess

bringing it to the top: Real verses ethic Jews: trying to understand the mess

Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 10th, 2010, 1:05 pm #1

there are two meanings for "special/chosen"; being a Jew isn't the kind that others want
June 10 2010 at 8:51 AM
yvonne (Login Harpazo)
Sufi


Response to "Jews should abandon the myth of exceptionalism."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abraham the first Jew became a Jew because he made contact with the true God, the God none of the other nations (Ur of the Chaldeas) even thought about. His father was an idol maker, meaning he made gods that others related to, human qualities that represented special gifts that humans needed, wanted, desired.

After Adam lost consciousness of God, walking with him in the garden (inner place of delight, hence Eden means PLEASURE in Hebrew), Jehovah's plan to reconcille man/adam back to himself began. The Bible then becomes a book of God making a people for himself but for what? The NT tells us that God PREPARED A BODY for himself to be born through, in, so that he would become "EMMANUEL" God with us, actually God within us.


When the "body" which becomes the "WOMAN" (soul) was ready, the fullness of time, God himself would be born within the soul or this woman, this body so that he could do what he planned from the beginning: TO WALK on the earth as his footstool, while keeping heaven as his throne. The fullness of time however would not be understood till it was actually full, meaning till time was ready to be "no more",hence when God and his people (his body) would ENTER ETERNITY together.


The body of course is made through Abraham and his descendants, which become a peculiar people but how? They can only be Abraham's descendants if they find what Abraham found: The TRUE GOD that is not the god of the nations, or the idols of the people that haven't found the true God. That is really the only thing that makes a Jew.

So, how did Jews grow as a people? Very simply they developed a way to keep the "INFORMATION" that Abraham received in oral form and then in written form as more and more people had this same experience of Abraham, hence his descendants. Everytime a person had this same experience of finding the true God, they wrote it down, hence, the Bible is written by holy men who were led to write what they did by the Holy Spirit and they found like I did in 1992 that these writings although strange and impossible to understand or even want to understand with the sensual (carnal) mind, are completely GRASPABLE by this new mind that came from having ABRAHAMS experience thus making them a true Jew.


now, its terrible to say one is a true Jew when the ethnic Jew is the one that made sure the writings were KEPT sacred and they were the people that formed TRADITIONS around those writings to make sure they were not lost nor would the people be lost even though they would not be accepted by the people/nations around them. The ethnic Jew suffered more than the TRUE JEW because at least the True Jew had the EXPERIENCE of the TRUE GOD to keep them fulfilled and happy regardless if others listened to them or hated them; made no difference to the TRUE JEW because he found God and God is enough for anyone since he is our creator and created us to fill us with his Eden/pleasure.


The world wasn't jealous of the Jew and their traditions; They had better traditions and gods; at least they could see their gods (idols) and they were more human in that they had form like humans and feelings like humans and thoughts like humans, only they were much more powerful than humans in the imagination of humans. Jews seemed an odd people with their traditions that made them dress funny, look funny, and they didn't have fun holidays and neither were they allowed to have them according to their traditions: To make a little ethnic Jew feel good about being a Jew, the traditional parent would try to tell him that there was more to life than dressing flashy, having great holidays, and doing what you want to do: To make the little Jew handle all these feelings of being an outcast, the parents just explained, you are special, you are chosen by God to endure this separation from the world, and we all know what that means to a kid that doesn't get to be like everyone else: Yea right, ok.....Im special....God wants me to be his special person. I can do that.


It becomes an inner barrier against all the PEER PRESSURE to be like everyone else. The traditional Jew developed very powerful COPING mechanisms to make up for the pressure to be different because God wanted him to be different for some reason. It didn't help when the nations around him seemed to prosper with their gods while his ONLY TRUE GOD kept putting them in situations that made others reject him more because he was so different. The diaspora (dispersion) of the Jew into all nations in order to bring this TORAH to all the people that didn't want it developed the Jew to be a nomadic people with strong traditions (to keep them in spite of the nations that they were dispersed in) and more important like a tree that develops DEEP ROOTS to withstand the bad wheather, Jews became great at adapting to the nations while still keeping their uniqueness and why? The true God that wanted them to do this, not to mention the STRONG parental injunctions that the next and next generation could not deny: They were persecuted and it didn't seem to be letting up.....even after Germany, the great statement against the Jew that wasn't special enough to keep his life if the nations said "you die".


After this England who had already taken over the LAND OF THE WHOLE WORLD it seemd, decided these people needed a place to go where they wouldn't have to keep being cast out, and their very TORAH stipulated where that land should be. Since England had the same Torah along with the rest of the Bible, England did what they always did, they TOOK LAND for the Jews and said here, now make do and enjoy.


Jews that weren't yet true Jews, meaning they bore the BURDEN of carrying around Abraham's covenant INFORMATION but not yet the EXPERIENCE of Abraham (Messiah), decided that this was their TRUE GOD finally showing up for them and giving them the LAND that he promised them for thousands of years while they were in exile. Makes perfect sense to the most senseless if they stop to think about it.


Now they would have to do what their ancestors did in the Torah; they would have to fight for their land like Abraham did and every other true Jew ever did. It wasn't going to be easy to hang on to but dang it, God finally showed up with his PROMISE and we are not going to be BREAD to break any longer. We are going to inherit the promise and enjoy being Jews for the first time in all our diaspora. Orthodox Jews said NO, this is not the Messiah; we don't want anything to do with this: WE know when the Messiah comes he will do the fighting for us; this is just going to make our true God even more angry because we haven't merrited Messiah yet but we are taking the Land by force.


Zionist said, we are Jews too; we may not spend all our time reading Torah, but we carry the traditions and the BURDEN of the TORAH with us everywhere we go: We want a place to call HOME and if the TRUE God didn't want to give it to us, the world is willing to help us; lets go and inhabit and worry about the fall out later. IF its God who is doing this, we will make it; if its not, then we at least tried to TAKE THE PROMISED LAND as our ancestors did. Maybe God just wants to see how much we really want this?? I mean why would God let us be rejected in every place other than he wanted us to DESIRE THIS HOMELAND, right? Oy vey


We are all witnesses to the unfolding story: What would we do? I wasn't born a Jew but in 1992 I had the same experience of Abraham and all his descendants and UNDERSTOOD THE TORAH that the ethnic Jew bore the burden of protecting and suddenly I UNDERSTOOD the Jew in every way. God showed me through the experience of knowing him that the true Jew will always be an outcast because he bears the BURDEN of telling the nations about the EXPERIENCE of the TRUE God whether he learned it from his people ethnically or if he LEARNED IT DIRECTLY like Abraham; matters not to God.


I learned real quickly HOW the nations didn't want what the Jew had no matter if they claimed to know the TRUE God: NOBODY could see the true God, nobody understood why he was so strange in the Torah (I experienced this all my life prior to becoming a true Jew so it wasn't lost on me). I wanted to share the EXPERIENCE of this TRUE God but I also wanted to EXPLAIN HOW Christianity become ONE with Judaism; Not only was Jesus a Jew (which gave the nations a growing sympathy for the Jew, after Hitler and his hate just revealed how FRIKIN NONSENSICAL the nations could become towards a people that were less than 3% in number of all nations: Why such a threat?


God blessed the Jew even though he didn't let them have their LAND or the fun that the nations had, especially Christmas and all those special days for the nations that the Jew wasn't allowed to participate in. God blessed the Jew by giving him ways to cope in an enviroment that was hostile to him by making him use his noodle to survive in whatever ways he could without becoming LIKE the nations. In the last 17 years I have EXPERIENCED this need to survive in spite of being rejected by the very world that I was part of for 40 years. THE DIFFICULT PART for me the first decade however was how CHRISTIANS RESPONDED TO ME, a Christian who had a Jewish experience.


Christians showed their true colors; They didn't want anyone to really know the true God more than them. Like the Jew they were told that they had the ONLY TRUE GOD and like the Jew it didn't matter if they really KNEW HIM OR NOT, they would carry this tradition to the world. Jesus was a Jew however so the Christians became sympathetic to the Jew as long as the JEW WOULD ACCEPT THEIR TRUE GOD and admit that their own true God was NOT who they thought he was. Since the Christians used the writings of the Jew to PROVE that their God came from them and in fact was their TRUE GOD in the flesh, it became a real fiasco for the Jew and he couldn't cope with this double betrayal from the TRUE God; Not only didn't he give them any status in the world, but now he comes to the GOY instead to live in them and becomes their Messiah when we are bearing the burden of this TORAH FOR THOUSANDS of years and we don't get to have the Messiah??


The breach happened that traditional Jews, TRUE JEWS and Christians now all were at odds: NOW we have Messianic Jews who try to show that the Messiah is a Christians but he is making Christians Jews or is it that he is making Jews Christian??? OH, who can keep up with it all: Lets go and have a latke and forget all this stuff if possible. BUT the years of exile made the Jew a survivor so now he spends all his time showing his SKILL in surviving. Now the nations are getting jealouse of the Jew but they are also considering him as a unique and intelligent being. Well at least many of them are.


So where are we? What is happening now? Will the Messiah come to the Jews or not? YES, let me say ABSOLUTELY YES: HOW? Like he did to the FIRST JEW Abraham; It is like this that he comes: Since he comes through the Jew and salvation is of the Jew, every single soul that is READY TO RECEIVE THE EXPERIENCE OF ABRAHAM will become a Jew like him. He will understand the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and through this he will understand HOW GOD revealed himself to Abraham and his descendants in every generation:


Where does Jesus come in? I mean didn't Jesus fulfill all that and bring about a new covenant? A NEW TESTAMENT? Yes .....since Christ is the PROMISE made to Abraham (the seed is called in Isaac), Christ comes through the SOUL OF THE ONE that becomes a JEW in this EXPERIENCE, and this Jew is then called JESUS


huh????


Jesus is the name of the JEW that has GOD IN HIM, has MESSIAH IN HIM, hence Christians are told they would be baptized INTO JESUS NAME


huhhhhh????

think about it, I will be back in a bit



every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 10th, 2010, 1:40 pm #2

Jesus is the name of those who have been saved by JEHOVAH; thats what it means

and how are they saved?

hold on to your yalmaka or cross; Jehovah comes and LIVES IN THESE SOULS that are from David in the flesh; King David lives forever for that reason:


your soul (the woman who is impregnated with the SEED Christ by the Holy Spirit) is Israel but Judah in particular....making that one a Jew:


Judah however is JOINED to the rest of Israel by this time hence King David is the LEVEL the soul must reach to be favored by God so that he HIMSELF takes residence in that soul:


that is why Jesus said he was the root (Christ) of David and the OFFSPRING (soul) of David:


the soul has to reach the level of being able to RECEIVE THE TRUE GOD, but still what does this mean?


we are all in God.....everyone.....just imagine God as this BIG CIRCLE OF LIFE


we are all little specks within that circle (think of the egg that is fertilzed by the sperm for an image):


now sperm by the very nature come out by the millions but only ONE makes it to the EGG to be fertilized and become a baby


same with the SEED of the WORD......it GOES OUT continually from all around us, but the little speck that is ready to receive it (like an egg) is fertilized with GOD AND BECOMES A REAL MAN, hence God is making man in his image and likeness:


everything is GIVEN LIFE BY GOD....so we swim in the sea of God; but not every ONE has God in their little speck so that they can TRANSFORM into another species....


the JEW carries the information of WHAT IT FEELS LIKE when God comes to take up habiation within the speck and this habitation makes man a LIVING SOUL (neshama)


the truth is God is constantly SEEDing his people but like Mark 4 says, not all seeds fall into the GOOD GROUND (to bring forth the 30, 60, 100 fold return)

the seed that does take root and brings forth the fruit of earth, the fruit of the vine, this SEED becomes the "SALVATION OF YHVH" or Jesus:


this seed or CHRIST becomes MAN in the creation:


questions?
Last edited by Harpazo on June 10th, 2010, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
Quote
Like
Share

Iceman
Iceman

June 10th, 2010, 2:39 pm #3

Goats reproduce in the same manner - so does the same apply to animals? Seems fitting that David would bleat and eat anything considering he was one of the greatest murdering butchers and womanizers of his time. OH YES! He united the tribes of Isreal - through brute force. YHVH means young hebrew virgin hunter.
Quote
Share

Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 10th, 2010, 2:44 pm #4

it is happening NOW....

so far it only happened to a few souls in compared to how many are now reaching their epic and end of the ego:

the greatest war of mankind is the war of the egos all trying to vie for control

when the ego no longer has control the souls with God in them will be totally different:

the ego is Gods work of giving us a "will" (independance)


when that will submits to the God who gave it, the will becomes A TRUE WILL, ONE WITH GOD

who is the ONLY TRUE WILL, the only true ability to control the life he made:

Messiah in man is the WILL OF GOD controlling man instead of his own ego controlling him



all the crap will stop at that point
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
Quote
Like
Share

iceman
iceman

June 10th, 2010, 2:49 pm #5

Never as long as there are people. The world would be better if goats ruled. And the truth is the human invented creator is part of the ego problem.
Quote
Share

Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 10th, 2010, 2:57 pm #6

but think, if man created the true God why didn't he create him a little more sensitive to egos?

why didn't the ego make a God he could control instead of one that always tries to reset the ego into being submissive to him?

the true God knows he is the source of the soul that exists with God hence Israel means he will rule with God:


the soul God is making is still being made.....not finished yet:


I will find an old poem I wrote that you will relate to when I came out of the ego to find how I felt about it



will find it and be back
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 10th, 2010, 3:44 pm #7

Goats reproduce in the same manner - so does the same apply to animals? Seems fitting that David would bleat and eat anything considering he was one of the greatest murdering butchers and womanizers of his time. OH YES! He united the tribes of Isreal - through brute force. YHVH means young hebrew virgin hunter.
the concubines he had are "desires" for the nations

the wives he had represent the desires to be one with David

BathSheba (daughter of seven or an oath for instance) represents the SOUL (seven candlesticks or our soul) that will be JOINED TO Messiah, hence to the SOUL that brings him forth;


he never killed a real human being: He may have killed lots of egos but these are his enemies in Psalms, not people:


David is the soul of Israel that has reached the level of "a heart after Gods own heart";

why did the Jew keep these things hidden?

who would have believed them as being relevant? I mean even other Jews for that matter:


and who would have cared if King David lives forever if he never really lived as ONE SINGLE PERSON AT ALL but a bunch of people that all came to the POINT Of having a heart after God own heart?/


the whole Bible is a metephor of A REAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE within the soul of ISRAEL, the soul that escapes from the nations with the HELP OF GOD


one day that will be known by everyone because the TIME IS HERE to know it


nobody cares about these things anymore on a religious level

but they will begin TO CARE A WHOLE LOT when they realize it is pertinant to their own evolution as a person:
Last edited by Harpazo on June 10th, 2010, 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
Quote
Like
Share

Iceman
Iceman

June 10th, 2010, 10:58 pm #8

but think, if man created the true God why didn't he create him a little more sensitive to egos?

why didn't the ego make a God he could control instead of one that always tries to reset the ego into being submissive to him?

the true God knows he is the source of the soul that exists with God hence Israel means he will rule with God:


the soul God is making is still being made.....not finished yet:


I will find an old poem I wrote that you will relate to when I came out of the ego to find how I felt about it



will find it and be back
People recreate their God image every moment and use the tiny fraction of what they know to justify an opinion. That's part of the ego difficulty.

Our biggest problem in life is the pull of frustration of what we think we know. Most of us only have a smattering of some understanding of life, death, our planet and universe. Many try to intertwine that with biblical concepts. Simply that really doesn't work very well. To think David wrote Psalms is like thinking Elmer Fud wrote the U.S. Constitution. That Paul in fact wrote all the letters is more ludicrious. That the gospels were written by the people who they are named after just simply a fraud.

A book written at the birth of the dark ages can hardly be deemed credible. The fact some people view the bible as credible simply reveals the true continued and sustaining igorance of human kind.

Viewing the sky at night, or walking through a forrest canopy leaves me in awe of our earthly wealth. Reading the bible except for a couple of passages simply makes me want to throw up.

If that is ego - then I prefer it and support it way beyond superstitious nutism.
Quote
Share

Iceman
Iceman

June 10th, 2010, 11:02 pm #9

the concubines he had are "desires" for the nations

the wives he had represent the desires to be one with David

BathSheba (daughter of seven or an oath for instance) represents the SOUL (seven candlesticks or our soul) that will be JOINED TO Messiah, hence to the SOUL that brings him forth;


he never killed a real human being: He may have killed lots of egos but these are his enemies in Psalms, not people:


David is the soul of Israel that has reached the level of "a heart after Gods own heart";

why did the Jew keep these things hidden?

who would have believed them as being relevant? I mean even other Jews for that matter:


and who would have cared if King David lives forever if he never really lived as ONE SINGLE PERSON AT ALL but a bunch of people that all came to the POINT Of having a heart after God own heart?/


the whole Bible is a metephor of A REAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE within the soul of ISRAEL, the soul that escapes from the nations with the HELP OF GOD


one day that will be known by everyone because the TIME IS HERE to know it


nobody cares about these things anymore on a religious level

but they will begin TO CARE A WHOLE LOT when they realize it is pertinant to their own evolution as a person:
Archiology has proven David as making Saddam Hussein looking like a saint. He was a mass murderer, a whore monger, and a butcher. Like so many he used religion to justify his sociopathic behavior.
Quote
Share

Joined: July 1st, 2008, 11:52 pm

June 10th, 2010, 11:30 pm #10

People recreate their God image every moment and use the tiny fraction of what they know to justify an opinion. That's part of the ego difficulty.

Our biggest problem in life is the pull of frustration of what we think we know. Most of us only have a smattering of some understanding of life, death, our planet and universe. Many try to intertwine that with biblical concepts. Simply that really doesn't work very well. To think David wrote Psalms is like thinking Elmer Fud wrote the U.S. Constitution. That Paul in fact wrote all the letters is more ludicrious. That the gospels were written by the people who they are named after just simply a fraud.

A book written at the birth of the dark ages can hardly be deemed credible. The fact some people view the bible as credible simply reveals the true continued and sustaining igorance of human kind.

Viewing the sky at night, or walking through a forrest canopy leaves me in awe of our earthly wealth. Reading the bible except for a couple of passages simply makes me want to throw up.

If that is ego - then I prefer it and support it way beyond superstitious nutism.
don't read the Bible till or IF you are led to read it by an inner desire to read it:

love nature as you do and enjoy it....enjoy some for those who can't get around in it too much anymore:

being upset about a book that means nothing to you doesn't help the quality of your life one bit, right?


if bluebirds fly above the sky
then why oh why oh why can't I?


people could have worse flaws than loving nature

I understand that the Bible leaves you COLD as ICE but be as nature and "LIVE and LET LIVE"

for those who see Holiness in the Bible (as long as they don't use it to crush others) what good is it to let all your inner peace turn to hate at that moment?


know what I mean?

I perceive that you would rather take a long walk and feel the wind in your face instead of venting your wind against things that you don't identify with:


be at peace with yourself ICE



every day is a new day to die to the old and live to the newness of life
Quote
Like
Share