Another little word study

Another little word study

Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

March 5th, 2010, 1:33 am #1

....since this is a forum on Bible discussion ....

There was a Greek word used in the NTestament ... repeatedly .... which has been consistently misrepresented in our English translations. I'm going to present the Greek word(s) and see if anyone can figure out what that word was translated INTO ... in the English translations.

4100 pisteuw pisteuo pist-yoo-o

That comes from ...

4102 pistiv pistis pis-tis

Which in turn comes from

3982 peiyw peitho pi-tho

4103 pistov pistos pis-tos also derives from

3982 peiyw peitho pi-tho

The essence of 3982 -(the given definition)- is ....

1) persuade
1a) to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe
1b) to make friends of, to win ones favour, gain ones good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one
1c) to tranquillise
1d) to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something
2) be persuaded
2a) to be persuaded, to suffer ones self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing
2a1) to believe
2a2) to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person
2b) to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with
3) to trust, have confidence, be confident

So .... what is the English word that was most commonly used to translate this above concept INTO?

Anyone care to bite? Anyone care to comment on how that word really conveys an incorrect concept?

-Vince
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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

March 5th, 2010, 4:53 am #2


My salvation is God's responsibility. Since I believe that God is the source of all things I entrust Him with that duty; for which I may add I am thankful. JB

 
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

March 5th, 2010, 5:49 am #3

Any thoughts?

-Vince
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JB
JB

March 5th, 2010, 6:53 am #4


...But the meaning behind the word 'believe' can be painted with a broad brush. You are not saved by simply believing in God, Jesus, Christ or any other name. For example, believing in the Devil does not make you evil, and believing in Canada does not make you a Canadian (I think I heard a sigh of relief from a few).

God calls all the shots when it comes to an individual's salvation; it has to be in his time, his place and in his purpose. Some often forget that first a person has to be CALLED (by God) then that person has to be CHOSEN (by God) and then that person has to be trained to be FAITHFUL (by God).

Philipians 2:13
for it is God WHO works IN you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Ephesians 1:11
IN HIM we were also CHOSEN, having been predestined according to the plan OF HIM who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of HIS WILL,

Revelation 17:14
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are CALLED, CHOSEN, and FAITHFUL.

You don't choose God (as some 'believe'), God chooses you and then he WORKS towards making you part of HIS PLAN...someone in HIS IMAGE. JB
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

March 5th, 2010, 11:49 am #5

I really like your answer and yes ..... you nailed the "word": it's BELIEVE ... in the English translations.

But did that word actually MEAN "believe"?

Well, it's interesting that the word "pisteuo <4100> is translated roughly 133 times in the authorized version (KJV) as "believe." It's also translated into "believed" about 94 times. And it's translated as "believers" in Acts 5:14 and as "believers" <4103> in 1 Tim. 4:12.

Then you take the parent word "pistis"<4102> and you find it translated as "faith" .... 239 times in the New Testament!

Believe, believed, believer ... means essentially the same as faith?

But wait, there's one more instance where <4102> means assurance too.

[ Acts 17:31 ... having given assurance to all..]

In the following instances, we see some strange arrangements in which the word is used ....

[ Luke 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful<4103> in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit<4100> to your trust<4100> the true riches?

John 2:24 But Jesus did<4100> not commit<4100> himself unto them, because he knew all men,

2 Tim. 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful<4103> men, who shall be able to teach others also.

1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful<4103> Creator. ]

So in the above examples, the word meant commit and faithful.

What have we got so far then, for "alternate" meanings?

Faith
Assurance
Committed
Faithful
Trust

Then we go to the ROOT word "Peitho" <3982>. Where and how do we find THIS word applied?

[ Matthew 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded <3982>

Matthew 27:43 He trusted <3982> in God

Matthew 28:14 And if this come to the governors ears, we will persuade <3982> him

Mark 10:24 how hard is it for them that trust <3982> in riches

Luke 11:22 he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted <3982>

Luke 16:31 If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded <3982>

Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted <3982> in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

Luke 20:6 for they be persuaded <3982> that John was a prophet.

Acts 5:36 as many as obeyed <3982> him, were scattered, and brought to nought.

Acts 5:40 And to him they agreed <3982>

Acts 12:20 having made <3982> Blastus the kings chamberlain their friend <3982> ]

There we have a number of more variations on the meaning of this ubiquitous word ....

Persuaded
Trusted
Obeyed
Agreed
Friend

Let's put them all together now ...

Faith
Assurance
Committed
Faithful
Trust
Persuaded
Trusted
Obeyed
Agreed
Friend

What does the meaning of that word seem to imply? Belief?

I was triggered into this study by a poster who said to me, "To me that disqualifies you as a believer" .... and I started to think about how OFTEN Christians will throw such expressions at other people if/when others don't say quite the right things to establish doctrinal correctness.

"You're not a TRUE believer."

Belief in WHAT?!?!?

Oh sure, I know .... belief "in Jesus". But what KIND of belief in Jesus or Christ?

Yes, Jesus did say that it was critical for his followers to "believe" in him ... but ... exactly what did such a belief entail? Was Jesus possibly saying to his followers that they needed to be sold on his cause? Be persuaded of it? Be committed to it? Be putting TRUST in him ... AS representing the will "of the Father"? Be INVESTING in him as their anticipated future King?

Did it really matter to Jesus whether anyone believed he was GOD or not? He never said so, if he thought so. What he DID stress, was the importance of believing that he REPRESENTED the will of the Father.

[ John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works sake. ]

It was all about "the works' sake" .... wasn't it?

What was that "work's sake"? Was it to bring people to heaven? If so, Jesus completely forgot to mention that.

His own mission statement was, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised." -Luke 4:18

He planned to do those things after he became King. Even if you don't agree with me on that point, I think you SHOULD agree with me that Luke 4:18 was his mission statement .... right?

What was Paul's mission? It doesn't seem to be neatly summarized in any single verse but it was essentially, to preach the good news that God had relinquished the original Adam sin and the good news was that they could now have FAITH that he would bless their efforts at becoming free from the slavery of sin. In a nutshell, it was a "how to win friends and influence people" kind of good news.

So now ....

When you SUMMARIZE the thrust of both Gospels -Jesus' and Paul's- and find a common denominator .... it was to release people from their sins of ingrown selfishness and pain ... and applying themselves to the belief and faith in a GREATER good for ALL men .... the WILL of the Father ..... for everyone.

Does it matter then, exactly WHAT people believe about Jesus or Paul ... if they believe in the same goals?

I think of it in terms of serving one's country in some role ... be it as a policeman, soldier, politician or whatever. People don't BELIEVE everything they're told by their superiors, do they? But they "believe" in whatever cause they're serving.

If two people are dedicated to the same cause .... does it really make any difference what they personally believe about what anyone else says to them? Must they believe in their superiors as some kind of "gods" before they're justified in their personal service?

If a Christian believer and an atheist have the same conviction about serving their fellow man ... what difference does it ACTUALLY make ... whether the atheist believes in the existence of God?

-Vince






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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

March 5th, 2010, 10:35 pm #6


I no longer regard many parts of the Bible as being literal; the literal interpretation often does not add up and inconsistencies are difficult to dismiss. However, once you begin to see the scriptures as a concealed message from God, disguised by story telling, the inconsistencies fade away because they are not the real message; they are just a vehicle for a much deeper journey.

 

As Yvonne has being saying of late, the Bible is a code. Once you see the keys to decoding scripture you begin to see everything in a new light. For example: names of people and places have meaning,. Male characters address God's work with the spirit and female characters address God's work with the soul. The scrolls are sealed with a literal interpretation until God breaks those seals one by one and you begin to see the Spirit of the Word. The Kingdom of God (heaven and hell) is all WITHIN YOU. JB
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Joined: December 8th, 2003, 1:16 am

March 5th, 2010, 11:18 pm #7

I see the "kingdom of God" and "hell" as being "IN YOU" for sure .... too. The target for their message was THIS EARTH ... or a "new earth" ; it was never for some other place in space known as "heaven" or "the heavens". The heavens was what they perceived to be -strictly- the domain of the gods.

The bottom line in the gospel message -from both Jesus and Paul- was to get the rank and file to change their stubborn mind/attitude and seize an opportunity to become polarized and energized to begin taking power for themselves. They had different end point ideas but their methodology was pretty similar.

As for the writings being coded? Hmmmm ... boy .... I'm a L-O-N-G way from that concept. To me, such suggestion is premised mostly on trying to preserve the notion that GOD wrote the book. It was true of the OTestament (to preserve its integrity in oral tradition ... kind of like a "check sum" system in computing) but the NTestament was never meant to extend past any present generation. (That's why much of it wasn't written down in the first place). Any discovered code is probably pure co-incidence ... much as we see "code" happen in many current events even today.

-Vince
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

March 6th, 2010, 10:23 am #8

I no longer regard many parts of the Bible as being literal; the literal interpretation often does not add up and inconsistencies are difficult to dismiss. However, once you begin to see the scriptures as a concealed message from God, disguised by story telling, the inconsistencies fade away because they are not the real message; they are just a vehicle for a much deeper journey.

 

As Yvonne has being saying of late, the Bible is a code. Once you see the keys to decoding scripture you begin to see everything in a new light. For example: names of people and places have meaning,. Male characters address God's work with the spirit and female characters address God's work with the soul. The scrolls are sealed with a literal interpretation until God breaks those seals one by one and you begin to see the Spirit of the Word. The Kingdom of God (heaven and hell) is all WITHIN YOU. JB
And where in the Bible does it say, imply, or even suggest it's a code?

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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Joined: April 30th, 2005, 4:27 am

March 6th, 2010, 10:55 am #9

I found it to be rude. JB
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Joined: July 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

March 6th, 2010, 11:14 am #10

Stop being ignorant JB. You're agreeing there is a Bible Code. So I asked you a NORMAL question.

Where in the Bible does it say, imply, or even suggest it's a code?

There's nothing rude in the question, there is however, IGNORANCE in your unfortunate response.

Unless we LOVE the truth, we cannot know it ~~ Pascal

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