well ,well ,well

well ,well ,well

Joined: May 21st, 2008, 7:56 pm

August 12th, 2012, 2:43 pm #1

Couple years ago the debate was swirling about the WHL recruitment system and how much it was driven by $$$$
I stated that I had first had knowledge of a specific team offering a specific player a six figure sum to switch from Tier 2
to major junior.
Long time posters on this sight called me out because I would not give the direct source of this information.
Well it was true then as it is now-----money talks---and blue chip players are offered big money to offset the loss of a scholarship should they leave the NCAA.
Hey it is what it is ----but the WHL starting its recruitment/propaganda machine with kids going to WHL sponsored camps---the year before they are even eligable for the bantam draft points to the fact that their influence is becoming all pervasive.
Major Midget tinkering (such as the Victoria Royals recently) is another example of this interference.
I suggest that if minor hockey programs are not geared to mass participation( and exactly the opposite tack from major junior and its monied elitist proclivities) that you will see an ever weakening hockey landscape at the grassroots level in Canada.
If the Major Junior teams funelled this graft money into the local minor hockey programs and were able to keep territorial rights to the players developed maybe that would strengthen local associations.
Something has got to give --as the rich teams are only tempted to get richer-and the rest struggle to survive.
All I see the last few years is Major Junior buying influence to the detriment of overall developement.
Hockey Canada's answer is to hold their hands out for a cheque while changing rules that hurt JR B and JR A franchises---(as far as player age eligability etc is concerned.) that again weakens the grassroots developement system------talk about biting the hand that feeds you!
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 18th, 2004, 5:05 pm

August 12th, 2012, 8:29 pm #2

I think you make some good points but I question one part of the premise. That players are being offered cash to join the CHL. These rumors have swirled for many years but I can't think of one (my memory is not perfect anymore mind you!) instance where it was proven that this happened. At this point if it was as rampant as you believe someone would have blown the whistly by now - a player, coach, front office guy - somebody somewhere would have sang and proved a specific time this happened.

I say that because I think of the SMU and USC situations in which former players sang pretty quickly after there were no consequences to them. I would not be surprised if money or gifts have been offered and accepted but I can't believe the amounts and frequency are extreme because the cat would have come out of the bag by now.

What other difinitive evidence do you have to offer? Its not that I don't necessarily beleive that you have first hand knowledge but without proof it doesn't hold much credibility on a message board. Nothing personal, just the way it is.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 21st, 2008, 7:56 pm

August 12th, 2012, 9:12 pm #3

I think it would be stranger if I outed a player or WHL team (that made this offer) on this message board than keeping my direct source anonymous.
The team in question was prepared to offset a full ride scholarship to a prestigious NCAA program in the US.
with cash upfront.And that aint cheap!
This particular player had accepted the scholarship (he actually sought it out when still 15-16) and did the honorable thing and declined the offer as he had made a commitment.
The thing is it was a good business offer by the WHL team--- that would have paid off handsomely in my opinion.
You may also be surprised to hear that this offer was made for the remainder of a season---just about half a season in fact.
This player could easily tell you what he told me because he refused their offer and his progress to the NHL was not slowed nor sped up one bit,but then again what would he gain at this point??
He has a long and VERY prosperous future in front of him----and none of it has had anything to do with the WHL.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 12th, 2012, 4:50 am

August 12th, 2012, 10:27 pm #4

It is not a route that Hockey Canada wants players to take, which is a good thing. If you think the US hockey system is the be all end all and college is your best route, knock yourself out. But you should be ineligible for World Junior Team Canada invites or placement on the team.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 11th, 2008, 4:55 am

August 12th, 2012, 10:38 pm #5

I think it would be stranger if I outed a player or WHL team (that made this offer) on this message board than keeping my direct source anonymous.
The team in question was prepared to offset a full ride scholarship to a prestigious NCAA program in the US.
with cash upfront.And that aint cheap!
This particular player had accepted the scholarship (he actually sought it out when still 15-16) and did the honorable thing and declined the offer as he had made a commitment.
The thing is it was a good business offer by the WHL team--- that would have paid off handsomely in my opinion.
You may also be surprised to hear that this offer was made for the remainder of a season---just about half a season in fact.
This player could easily tell you what he told me because he refused their offer and his progress to the NHL was not slowed nor sped up one bit,but then again what would he gain at this point??
He has a long and VERY prosperous future in front of him----and none of it has had anything to do with the WHL.
Can't stand people that come on here to pipe up about how much they know with no factual information to back it up.Until you have anything to prove you're just another outright LIAR.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2005, 7:30 pm

August 12th, 2012, 10:59 pm #6

I think it would be stranger if I outed a player or WHL team (that made this offer) on this message board than keeping my direct source anonymous.
The team in question was prepared to offset a full ride scholarship to a prestigious NCAA program in the US.
with cash upfront.And that aint cheap!
This particular player had accepted the scholarship (he actually sought it out when still 15-16) and did the honorable thing and declined the offer as he had made a commitment.
The thing is it was a good business offer by the WHL team--- that would have paid off handsomely in my opinion.
You may also be surprised to hear that this offer was made for the remainder of a season---just about half a season in fact.
This player could easily tell you what he told me because he refused their offer and his progress to the NHL was not slowed nor sped up one bit,but then again what would he gain at this point??
He has a long and VERY prosperous future in front of him----and none of it has had anything to do with the WHL.
At first you said the player was offered 'six figures to play' and now in this post you've clarified and said that the WHL team offered to cover his full ride NCAA scholarship. Something like this I can believe.

I dunno about the cash up front part, alot of these he said she said things end up with pieces missing. The 50/50 money is supposed to go towards the education fund. Does the league take that money and distribute it to the rare number of players who go on to university or do the clubs handle their own accounting. Well attended clubs like MH, Calgary, Van, Kelowna and many others probably take in excess of $130 000 a year in 50/50 cash, and not that many players go the school route after the WHL.

I just know that for every year in the dub a kid is entitled to one year at university, I dunno if they can bend the rules so they can play in the NCAA. It's certainly dirty pool no matter how you look at it.

I can see a team saying 'come here and play and if you don't play pro we'll cover your NCAA scholarship' providing that the teams each separately account for their own 50/50 money. A team like the tigers for example... Undershute and Block are the last two that I can remember taking the scholarship money. The cash collected from the 50/50 money would cover those two and then some. If there was monkey business going on there would be enough in that scholarship fund for them to promise to cover an NCAA scholarship here or there.

That's all if the league doesn't control the 50/50 cash, I'd be shocked if they didn't.

But insofar as teams just giving players six figure sums of cash, I don't see it. Even rich teams, it doesn't take a math genius to know that 6 figures is too large a number for them to be shelling out. Take average attendance, multiply it by average ticket price, subtract tens of thousands for transportation and meals, hundreds of thousands for arena upkeep and hundreds of thousands for staff salaries and you could easily see that just giving out $200 000 is more than even a club like Calgary or Vancouver would be willing to do.

Plus hundreds of thousands of dollars doesn't just disappear without someone knowing. Even handing it out for an NCAA scholarship would be damn tricky accounting.

All that being said due to recent news I have to slacken my stance on this, where there is smoke there is fire and while I doubt the wrong doings would be in the six figures there's no doubt in my mind there must be some monkey business happening.

Does anyone actually know who keeps the 50/50 money? Because I bet at least half the clubs in the league get more cash in than they pay out.




As for you ram30, you don't communicate yourself very well, but after I took the time to shift through your post you seem to have some knowledge here. I dunno if you're telling the truth or not but you've got an opinion on this based on some facts. I'm glad I read these two posts.

-----------


"Now you wear your skin like iron
Your breath's as hard as kerosene"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 21st, 2008, 7:56 pm

August 13th, 2012, 12:37 am #7

the player in question was offered six figures to keep him from going to the NCAA period.He declined the cash and went with the NCAA scholarship he had agreed to some years earlier and the WHL team had ZERO dealings with him.
He felt it was intended to offset the cash value of a four year scholarship. Slice or dice it anyway you want.
As far as being called a liar by others that don't like to hear the truth---hey don't bother me in the least.
I know the truth.
Actually guys are surprisingly naive about this aspect of major junior.
The team that offered this amount of cash would have EASILY recouped that payment, as I think this player would have drawn another 1500-2000 fans per home game for the remainder of that season plus who knows how much extra in play-off revenue.
This player was a marquee player that would have moved the team into MC contention for sure.
Would have been a good investment if he had gone the WHL route.
Some have and some haven't accepted the moola----but it is offered more than you think.
Money can sometimes buy championships or don't you doubters believe that either lol.
I am bringing this up due specifically to the OHL Windsor Spitfires getting caught---this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Why not just pay the kids right up front and forget all the other bs.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 19th, 2005, 7:30 pm

August 13th, 2012, 5:40 am #8

But I don't believe that, the numbers don't play out. Memorial cup wins allow the team's fanbase to hoot and holler but hanging that banner is not good return on $100 000+. It's just not.

Six figures is just too large a number for these teams to be slipping under the table, it would get noticed. Who really knows what is up and what is down but six figures... no.

-----------


"Now you wear your skin like iron
Your breath's as hard as kerosene"
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 21st, 2008, 7:56 pm

August 13th, 2012, 3:42 pm #9

The amount offered was higher than $100000 and for the owner even that large sum would be a drop in the bucket.
Even if you figured that during the remainder of that regular season's home dates of aprox 15 games and conservatively projecting $15000 in increased gate reciepts = 15 x 15000 = 225,000 in additional gross.The value of advertising gains alone would have exceeded the six figures you suggest.
I think you can see where the math is going on this.
I am pretty sure his signing would have translated into much higher gross than $15000 per game and we have not allowed for extra revenue in the play-offs
from gate reciepts and probably more games to begin with.
A smart business offer----a very good risk reward scenario for sure.
Now is'nt it a LARGE coincidence that the Windsor Spitfires were doing exactly the same thing!!! only their target obviously signed and took the money!!! and the Spitfires won the Memorial Cup!!! .... connect the dots.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 7th, 2005, 4:13 am

August 13th, 2012, 5:23 pm #10

nm
<a href="http://www.sloganizer.net/en/" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style3,ChiefsHockey1.png" border="0" alt="style3,ChiefsHockey1.png"></a>
Quote
Like
Share