Parting Wings

Parting Wings

Joined: April 3rd, 2008, 12:37 pm

August 12th, 2008, 12:51 am #1

Hello everybody,

About 2 weeks ago I was training with somebody who doesn't train Kenpo (he studies other Martial Arts like Jeet Kune Do, Jiu-Jitsu and Eskrima) and he asked me what kind of solution we have in Kenpo against a push (a sudden push). I came up with Parting Wings.

After teaching him this technique he asked me why we give a Handsword to the ribs instead of immediately giving a Handsword or Heel Palm to the head to knock the attacker out. This would end the fight faster and the sooner a fight ends, the better it is.

I couldn't give him an answer to that question and that bothered me.

I was wondering if someone could tell me why Mr Parker designed Parting Wing with a shot to the ribs not with an immediate shot to the head. Why prefering a "ribshot" over a "headshot"? What is the logic that I am not seeing here?

Looking forward towards your reactions!!

Thanks in advance.

Jeroen
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Joined: June 17th, 2006, 1:33 am

August 12th, 2008, 1:08 am #2

What happens to your opponent if you hit him in the head there? It could end the fight but if it doesn't you've blown him out of range for a follow up to that strike. This in contrast to the rib shot which puts a nice vulnerable target on an arc into our next available weapon.

One of many concepts taught in this tech that would be missed if you just clocked the guy and he managed to re engage thus causing you to have to start over.

When is the fight over? When your opponent can't continue.

Good question! Anyone else? Buhler?

CT

but that's just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dennis Miller
Last edited by chtavis on August 12th, 2008, 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 16th, 2004, 8:43 am

August 12th, 2008, 1:48 am #3

Hello everybody,

About 2 weeks ago I was training with somebody who doesn't train Kenpo (he studies other Martial Arts like Jeet Kune Do, Jiu-Jitsu and Eskrima) and he asked me what kind of solution we have in Kenpo against a push (a sudden push). I came up with Parting Wings.

After teaching him this technique he asked me why we give a Handsword to the ribs instead of immediately giving a Handsword or Heel Palm to the head to knock the attacker out. This would end the fight faster and the sooner a fight ends, the better it is.

I couldn't give him an answer to that question and that bothered me.

I was wondering if someone could tell me why Mr Parker designed Parting Wing with a shot to the ribs not with an immediate shot to the head. Why prefering a "ribshot" over a "headshot"? What is the logic that I am not seeing here?

Looking forward towards your reactions!!

Thanks in advance.

Jeroen
Good post, thanks for asking the question.

Defending a push, there is a considerable amount of momentum to offset. Its tough to know if a push is actually a push, or the precursor to some type of clinch / grabbing action, and your response to a push could inadvertently turn it into a clinch / bear hug / grabbing action as well, so best to cover that eventuality within the base technique. A strike to the high line may create an undesirable contour that leads them into a tackle attempt. Why give them that option?

Another thought: lots of times when there is a minor move (finger slice to eyes) preceding a major move (handsword / chop to ribs) look at what body reactions the minor move creates. As a general rule for optimizing damage on a torso strike, you want to hit a part of the body that is stable or approaching (borrowed force) and is reaching towards its elastic limit. In this case, the eye slice probably causes them to bring their hands toward their eyes and lean away from you, possibly making a high-line shot impractical. With their hips still carrying them forward, and hands brought up to the face, the abdominal wall is stretched out at the time of impact.

The other possible reaction on a finger slice to the eyes is to curl up (abdominal flexion) and drive into a takedown, and in this case, a high-line strike would sail over their head, leaving you exposed, and returning to my previous point: why give them that option?

Incidentally, the follow-up handsword is a wedge to prevent an unitentional takedown and contour said movement away from your center of mass.

If they do attempt a takedown at any time during the technique, this resultant position (outward diagonal handsword deflection and rear hand low, similar to an underhook) grafts beautifully into the Kenpo 5.0 techniques Collapsing Wedge and Opposing Circles as well as a number of similar structures/techniques Mr. James Hawkins shows in his videos. All this same advice also goes for the AKKI technique Divided Fury which shares a lot of structural similarities to Parting Wings and produces much the same positional references.

I look forward to other people's answers on this.

Salute
Ian Rafferty
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Joined: November 24th, 2004, 9:07 pm

August 12th, 2008, 1:56 am #4

Hello everybody,

About 2 weeks ago I was training with somebody who doesn't train Kenpo (he studies other Martial Arts like Jeet Kune Do, Jiu-Jitsu and Eskrima) and he asked me what kind of solution we have in Kenpo against a push (a sudden push). I came up with Parting Wings.

After teaching him this technique he asked me why we give a Handsword to the ribs instead of immediately giving a Handsword or Heel Palm to the head to knock the attacker out. This would end the fight faster and the sooner a fight ends, the better it is.

I couldn't give him an answer to that question and that bothered me.

I was wondering if someone could tell me why Mr Parker designed Parting Wing with a shot to the ribs not with an immediate shot to the head. Why prefering a "ribshot" over a "headshot"? What is the logic that I am not seeing here?

Looking forward towards your reactions!!

Thanks in advance.

Jeroen
"...he asked me why we give a Handsword to the ribs instead of immediately giving a Handsword or Heel Palm to the head to knock the attacker out. This would end the fight faster ..."

...ask him if he's ever tried to continue a fight with broken ribs. Not only are busted ribs excruciatingly painful, but they make breathing extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Salute
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Joined: June 4th, 2006, 5:39 am

August 12th, 2008, 2:47 am #5

I doubt you can break his ribs with that hit, IF your opponent is stronger than you.... and we should always assume that we are attacked by smby stronger....
It reminds me of the old karate myth of breaking ribs with a punch.
I always had a problem with the handsword on parting wings as it is in my humble opinion inappropriate. An uppercut with a dragon's head fist directed to the nerves between the ribs is much more painful and efficient. (and would work even if your opponent was the Incredible HULK).

Well of course, this is against the standard version, so ...............

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Joined: June 13th, 2005, 7:25 pm

August 12th, 2008, 3:05 am #6

Hello everybody,

About 2 weeks ago I was training with somebody who doesn't train Kenpo (he studies other Martial Arts like Jeet Kune Do, Jiu-Jitsu and Eskrima) and he asked me what kind of solution we have in Kenpo against a push (a sudden push). I came up with Parting Wings.

After teaching him this technique he asked me why we give a Handsword to the ribs instead of immediately giving a Handsword or Heel Palm to the head to knock the attacker out. This would end the fight faster and the sooner a fight ends, the better it is.

I couldn't give him an answer to that question and that bothered me.

I was wondering if someone could tell me why Mr Parker designed Parting Wing with a shot to the ribs not with an immediate shot to the head. Why prefering a "ribshot" over a "headshot"? What is the logic that I am not seeing here?

Looking forward towards your reactions!!

Thanks in advance.

Jeroen
The short answer ...

In its ideal phase parting wings is VS a committed push ... the chop to the rib / peck area stops the attackers forward momentum.

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Joined: March 5th, 2005, 2:18 pm

August 12th, 2008, 3:10 am #7

I'll second that.

Take it out on the heavy bag,

Chuck Peterson
peterson_charlie@hotmail.com

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Joined: November 24th, 2004, 9:07 pm

August 12th, 2008, 3:15 am #8

I doubt you can break his ribs with that hit, IF your opponent is stronger than you.... and we should always assume that we are attacked by smby stronger....
It reminds me of the old karate myth of breaking ribs with a punch.
I always had a problem with the handsword on parting wings as it is in my humble opinion inappropriate. An uppercut with a dragon's head fist directed to the nerves between the ribs is much more painful and efficient. (and would work even if your opponent was the Incredible HULK).

Well of course, this is against the standard version, so ...............
>It reminds me of the old karate myth of breaking ribs with a punch.<

We apparently come from different experiences. I personally know a half-dozen martial artists who have had their ribs broken/splintered by a punch. Although I haven't been one of them, I was Mr. Parker's breaker on his demo team for a while and punched through a stack of pine boards and on occasion Douglas fir floor joist. My sense is if my punch could break floor joist, it would have severely damaged a human ribcage. This aside, why would you feel that Mr. Parker would have designed that particular move to strike the ribcage (actually the floating rib) if not to break or splinter it? Do you feel that the most damage he felt could be inflicted was a bruised rib? If so, this sounds like wasted motion and not in line with Mr. Parker's thinking.

Salute


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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 12th, 2008, 3:25 am #9

Hello everybody,

About 2 weeks ago I was training with somebody who doesn't train Kenpo (he studies other Martial Arts like Jeet Kune Do, Jiu-Jitsu and Eskrima) and he asked me what kind of solution we have in Kenpo against a push (a sudden push). I came up with Parting Wings.

After teaching him this technique he asked me why we give a Handsword to the ribs instead of immediately giving a Handsword or Heel Palm to the head to knock the attacker out. This would end the fight faster and the sooner a fight ends, the better it is.

I couldn't give him an answer to that question and that bothered me.

I was wondering if someone could tell me why Mr Parker designed Parting Wing with a shot to the ribs not with an immediate shot to the head. Why prefering a "ribshot" over a "headshot"? What is the logic that I am not seeing here?

Looking forward towards your reactions!!

Thanks in advance.

Jeroen
I have also pondered this possibility and had a few thoughts.

I will also add a note here that I have always taught that "chop" as a punching chop, so it will have a linear drive to it and very well could do some rib damage. Mr. Planas likes to give an alternate target to change things up and do a pectoral rip, grasping the tendon near the armpit...

If you want inside the arms with a head shot, look towards Fatal Deviation or rip their arms down and go into Hooking Wings.


Josh
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Joined: May 2nd, 2008, 9:56 pm

August 12th, 2008, 3:43 am #10

Hello everybody,

About 2 weeks ago I was training with somebody who doesn't train Kenpo (he studies other Martial Arts like Jeet Kune Do, Jiu-Jitsu and Eskrima) and he asked me what kind of solution we have in Kenpo against a push (a sudden push). I came up with Parting Wings.

After teaching him this technique he asked me why we give a Handsword to the ribs instead of immediately giving a Handsword or Heel Palm to the head to knock the attacker out. This would end the fight faster and the sooner a fight ends, the better it is.

I couldn't give him an answer to that question and that bothered me.

I was wondering if someone could tell me why Mr Parker designed Parting Wing with a shot to the ribs not with an immediate shot to the head. Why prefering a "ribshot" over a "headshot"? What is the logic that I am not seeing here?

Looking forward towards your reactions!!

Thanks in advance.

Jeroen
possibilities. The technique is one senario. It is not fixed in granite. It actuall depends on the point of origin of the initial striking arm. There is a time when you would hit high and a time when you would hit low. Now in this ideal situation the right arm is more avaialable to drop into the ribs. This then sets up the left arm to go high. So hence you are varying from low to high and back. Now if in the initial move you were to strike the head or neck with the right hand then the left hand strikw would not be set up well for a boby shotas the right arm would be traveling under it. It would more naturally travel to the head. So you would have two head shots in a row. And there are reasons beyond creativity why you might not want to do that. But you could do it.
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