Non-Ranking Options for Kenpo Students: Advantages & Disadvantages?

Non-Ranking Options for Kenpo Students: Advantages & Disadvantages?

Joined: January 13th, 2010, 5:52 pm

July 19th, 2011, 4:12 am #1

I currently have a non-ranking option for students in my school, as my first priority is teaching practical self-preservation, with character development coming in a close second, and everything else falling in after based on the student's reasons for training. Thus, I felt it prudent to offer the option to train in the basics, drills and self-defense techniques without the option to test for a belt rank or learn the forms. Mr. Paul Mills has said that "Kenpo is another word for truth", which I try to guide my every school function/philosophy by. And truth is, some may simply be looking for the ability to defend themselves without fully embracing a functional martial art.

Thus, I'd like to solicite some perspectives on the pros and cons of having such a training option available, and shall provide a couple of points for each perspective to start out:


Advantages:

* Such an option will allow the non-traditional student access to practical training.

* A student in a non-ranking option may eventually wish to transition as a traditional student.


Dis-Advantages:

* Though these students are studying/training Kenpo, they cannot one day carry the system as instructors.

* These students miss out on the goal-setting lessons found in a traditional belt-progression system.


Salute,
Jay Wilson
http://www.facebook.com/ProgressiveEdge
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: January 19th, 2004, 2:11 am

July 19th, 2011, 10:04 am #2

Advantages:

* Such an option will allow the non-traditional student access to practical training.

* A student in a non-ranking option may eventually wish to transition as a traditional student.


Dis-Advantages:

* Though these students are studying/training Kenpo, they cannot one day carry the system as instructors.

* These students miss out on the goal-setting lessons found in a traditional belt-progression system.

My thoughts on what you deem Disadavantages:


If someone is paying me to teach them, I don't care what they want to do in the future, and the only goal setting lessons is how to make sure I'm paid for my time. As long as they don't use my name to advance themselves as a ranked Kenpoist, I'm good.

Have a great gun carryin' Kenpo day

Clyde

[Posted by 66.215.244.139 viahttp://webwarper.net This is added while posting a message to avoid misuse.
Try:http://webwarper.net/webwarper.exe Example of viewing:http://webwarper.net/ww/www.network54.c ... 60433/post ]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

July 19th, 2011, 2:52 pm #3

I currently have a non-ranking option for students in my school, as my first priority is teaching practical self-preservation, with character development coming in a close second, and everything else falling in after based on the student's reasons for training. Thus, I felt it prudent to offer the option to train in the basics, drills and self-defense techniques without the option to test for a belt rank or learn the forms. Mr. Paul Mills has said that "Kenpo is another word for truth", which I try to guide my every school function/philosophy by. And truth is, some may simply be looking for the ability to defend themselves without fully embracing a functional martial art.

Thus, I'd like to solicite some perspectives on the pros and cons of having such a training option available, and shall provide a couple of points for each perspective to start out:


Advantages:

* Such an option will allow the non-traditional student access to practical training.

* A student in a non-ranking option may eventually wish to transition as a traditional student.


Dis-Advantages:

* Though these students are studying/training Kenpo, they cannot one day carry the system as instructors.

* These students miss out on the goal-setting lessons found in a traditional belt-progression system.


Salute,
Jay Wilson
http://www.facebook.com/ProgressiveEdge
...I would never rank anybody. The whole rank thing to me is just a ploy to keep students. It's not how I do things, but it's how many do, I've found. I know they have to or they will have to close their doors, but for me, I'd rather be proud of my character and honest with my students than rank people for money.

I've also found that rank is about how much "stuff" you know vs. how good you really are, which is another sad ordeal.

I could go on and on about this subject. I've found so many rank chasers it's pathetic. They don't stay long at my school.

I know I'll never give up teaching, but if I ever close my doors I will keep a handful of adult students who want knowledge and skill and will get rid of the clowns who want cloth.

Just my opinion...
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

July 19th, 2011, 5:54 pm #4



Regards,
Gary
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 14th, 2004, 8:13 am

July 19th, 2011, 7:41 pm #5

I currently have a non-ranking option for students in my school, as my first priority is teaching practical self-preservation, with character development coming in a close second, and everything else falling in after based on the student's reasons for training. Thus, I felt it prudent to offer the option to train in the basics, drills and self-defense techniques without the option to test for a belt rank or learn the forms. Mr. Paul Mills has said that "Kenpo is another word for truth", which I try to guide my every school function/philosophy by. And truth is, some may simply be looking for the ability to defend themselves without fully embracing a functional martial art.

Thus, I'd like to solicite some perspectives on the pros and cons of having such a training option available, and shall provide a couple of points for each perspective to start out:


Advantages:

* Such an option will allow the non-traditional student access to practical training.

* A student in a non-ranking option may eventually wish to transition as a traditional student.


Dis-Advantages:

* Though these students are studying/training Kenpo, they cannot one day carry the system as instructors.

* These students miss out on the goal-setting lessons found in a traditional belt-progression system.


Salute,
Jay Wilson
http://www.facebook.com/ProgressiveEdge
I have taught outside the system for years, and have had great results using AK as a foundation for what was being taught.

It all boils down to what is wanted and needed, some people just want the fun of working out with kicks and punches such as gym kickboxing classes, some require a practical self defense in which case I give them a street application and education with a limited number of techs, the focus being mainly on short quick techs and body conditioning, and then their are those who wish to set goals in a long term endeavor in which case I would teach them the EP system as I know it.

I teach all three of those examples mentioned above and enjoy them all as much, I find it important that what ever you are teaching it should be well thought out and applied and fun for those involved.

Oh yea and like Clyde said... Get Paid! You will get better results

Best in Kenpo (and all other endeavors).
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 18th, 2009, 4:26 pm

July 19th, 2011, 10:48 pm #6

I currently have a non-ranking option for students in my school, as my first priority is teaching practical self-preservation, with character development coming in a close second, and everything else falling in after based on the student's reasons for training. Thus, I felt it prudent to offer the option to train in the basics, drills and self-defense techniques without the option to test for a belt rank or learn the forms. Mr. Paul Mills has said that "Kenpo is another word for truth", which I try to guide my every school function/philosophy by. And truth is, some may simply be looking for the ability to defend themselves without fully embracing a functional martial art.

Thus, I'd like to solicite some perspectives on the pros and cons of having such a training option available, and shall provide a couple of points for each perspective to start out:


Advantages:

* Such an option will allow the non-traditional student access to practical training.

* A student in a non-ranking option may eventually wish to transition as a traditional student.


Dis-Advantages:

* Though these students are studying/training Kenpo, they cannot one day carry the system as instructors.

* These students miss out on the goal-setting lessons found in a traditional belt-progression system.


Salute,
Jay Wilson
http://www.facebook.com/ProgressiveEdge
A ranking system breaks the curriculum down into different levels of skill organized in a manner that grows from what you know. Why learn the techniques in the order taught? Why not have a yellow belt sparring a brown belt? There are reasons why. The ranking also allows you to know what that student is working on, what they already know, and what they still need to learn.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 18th, 2009, 4:26 pm

July 19th, 2011, 10:50 pm #7

...I would never rank anybody. The whole rank thing to me is just a ploy to keep students. It's not how I do things, but it's how many do, I've found. I know they have to or they will have to close their doors, but for me, I'd rather be proud of my character and honest with my students than rank people for money.

I've also found that rank is about how much "stuff" you know vs. how good you really are, which is another sad ordeal.

I could go on and on about this subject. I've found so many rank chasers it's pathetic. They don't stay long at my school.

I know I'll never give up teaching, but if I ever close my doors I will keep a handful of adult students who want knowledge and skill and will get rid of the clowns who want cloth.

Just my opinion...
It's your school what's holding you back?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: March 5th, 2005, 2:18 pm

July 20th, 2011, 12:32 am #8

A ranking system breaks the curriculum down into different levels of skill organized in a manner that grows from what you know. Why learn the techniques in the order taught? Why not have a yellow belt sparring a brown belt? There are reasons why. The ranking also allows you to know what that student is working on, what they already know, and what they still need to learn.
I've taught both ways but tend to agree with you. Even if someone isn't interested in rank, I'll teach them pretty much in the same order I would without the rank. May as well teach for rank. Lets the student know where they stand.

Take it out on the heavy bag,

Chuck Peterson
peterson_charlie@hotmail.com

Quote
Like
Share

Joined: February 25th, 2009, 8:54 am

July 20th, 2011, 2:48 am #9

...I would never rank anybody. The whole rank thing to me is just a ploy to keep students. It's not how I do things, but it's how many do, I've found. I know they have to or they will have to close their doors, but for me, I'd rather be proud of my character and honest with my students than rank people for money.

I've also found that rank is about how much "stuff" you know vs. how good you really are, which is another sad ordeal.

I could go on and on about this subject. I've found so many rank chasers it's pathetic. They don't stay long at my school.

I know I'll never give up teaching, but if I ever close my doors I will keep a handful of adult students who want knowledge and skill and will get rid of the clowns who want cloth.

Just my opinion...
you are trying to justify something. I mean no harm by saying it but it just sounds that way. YOu know I am into psychic intuitive healing. I need to tell you that the intuitive message that I have received for you are the words "What are you afraid of?". Just take the words to heart and see what they mean for you...

Namaste
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 7th, 2009, 2:29 am

July 20th, 2011, 4:14 am #10

I currently have a non-ranking option for students in my school, as my first priority is teaching practical self-preservation, with character development coming in a close second, and everything else falling in after based on the student's reasons for training. Thus, I felt it prudent to offer the option to train in the basics, drills and self-defense techniques without the option to test for a belt rank or learn the forms. Mr. Paul Mills has said that "Kenpo is another word for truth", which I try to guide my every school function/philosophy by. And truth is, some may simply be looking for the ability to defend themselves without fully embracing a functional martial art.

Thus, I'd like to solicite some perspectives on the pros and cons of having such a training option available, and shall provide a couple of points for each perspective to start out:


Advantages:

* Such an option will allow the non-traditional student access to practical training.

* A student in a non-ranking option may eventually wish to transition as a traditional student.


Dis-Advantages:

* Though these students are studying/training Kenpo, they cannot one day carry the system as instructors.

* These students miss out on the goal-setting lessons found in a traditional belt-progression system.


Salute,
Jay Wilson
http://www.facebook.com/ProgressiveEdge
I think that is very good, to Hell with belt ranking!

I would also like to point out that while you expressed that a
non-traditional student is one that goes the way of the no belt ranking option, it is in fact the true traditional approach. In the history of martial arts training belt ranking only started around 1880 with Judo.

Skill in a martial art is obvious a person either has it or they don't, the belt ranks are a gimmick. If a person needs to get a belt every so often so they can know they are making progress thats a sure sign they are not making any progress. If a teacher needs it to be able to tell where his or her students ability is, its time to look for another teacher.

-------------------------------------------

There is no reason why these non ranked students cant become teachers. Did you forget that no inspector comes into martial arts schools and says show me your certifications and belts now or I am closing you down.

And as for goal setting lessons... They learn a more valueable lesson that true skill is its own reward and getting to an END POINT is not as important as the journey.
Quote
Like
Share