Forgotten Forms?

Forgotten Forms?

Joined: April 4th, 2006, 6:30 am

October 8th, 2007, 10:10 pm #1

Howz it everyone!
It's been a little quiet in here lately, so I thought I would post a topic that has sparked my curiousity recently.

I came across a website(www.elite-fightes.com) selling A.K. cd-roms and there is a portion that features what they are calling Cane Set 1 & 2 and a Karambit set 2. The website states that the sets were adapted from Short Forms 4 & 5 as well as Mass Attack.
Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with these forms and their history? Also, what about Karambit Set 1...was this a precursor to Long Form 8? I was under the impression that Long Form 8 was created with the help of Gil Hibben and his Kenpo Knife complemented this form.

Thanks for your time,
Hayden



"Fear is defeat, defeat is death"--- me
Last edited by KenpoVortex on October 8th, 2007, 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 1st, 2005, 10:53 pm

October 8th, 2007, 10:27 pm #2

I don't know for sure, but the only cane material ive seen was from Doug McCloud.
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Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 3:36 am

October 9th, 2007, 12:25 am #3

Howz it everyone!
It's been a little quiet in here lately, so I thought I would post a topic that has sparked my curiousity recently.

I came across a website(www.elite-fightes.com) selling A.K. cd-roms and there is a portion that features what they are calling Cane Set 1 & 2 and a Karambit set 2. The website states that the sets were adapted from Short Forms 4 & 5 as well as Mass Attack.
Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with these forms and their history? Also, what about Karambit Set 1...was this a precursor to Long Form 8? I was under the impression that Long Form 8 was created with the help of Gil Hibben and his Kenpo Knife complemented this form.

Thanks for your time,
Hayden



"Fear is defeat, defeat is death"--- me
except for form 8 knife set was taught by some but as i understood it was meant as a form taught only to those who knew the system front to back when SGM Parker was alive. the other forms you metioned have been adapted depending on who you train with ie if i am not mistaken kerambit forms are angelo's material. i don't know about the cane forms.
later
Jason Arnold
Warrior Metal Intl
CANADA
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Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:42 am

October 9th, 2007, 3:12 am #4

Howz it everyone!
It's been a little quiet in here lately, so I thought I would post a topic that has sparked my curiousity recently.

I came across a website(www.elite-fightes.com) selling A.K. cd-roms and there is a portion that features what they are calling Cane Set 1 & 2 and a Karambit set 2. The website states that the sets were adapted from Short Forms 4 & 5 as well as Mass Attack.
Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with these forms and their history? Also, what about Karambit Set 1...was this a precursor to Long Form 8? I was under the impression that Long Form 8 was created with the help of Gil Hibben and his Kenpo Knife complemented this form.

Thanks for your time,
Hayden



"Fear is defeat, defeat is death"--- me
I believe Mass Attack is from Tracy's Kenpo.
Duke
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Joined: May 7th, 2005, 4:07 pm

October 9th, 2007, 2:00 pm #5

Howz it everyone!
It's been a little quiet in here lately, so I thought I would post a topic that has sparked my curiousity recently.

I came across a website(www.elite-fightes.com) selling A.K. cd-roms and there is a portion that features what they are calling Cane Set 1 & 2 and a Karambit set 2. The website states that the sets were adapted from Short Forms 4 & 5 as well as Mass Attack.
Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with these forms and their history? Also, what about Karambit Set 1...was this a precursor to Long Form 8? I was under the impression that Long Form 8 was created with the help of Gil Hibben and his Kenpo Knife complemented this form.

Thanks for your time,
Hayden



"Fear is defeat, defeat is death"--- me
...that Karambit Set has nothing to do with Form 8's creation or Mr. Collado's Karambit material.

James Hawkins III, SI
Hawkins Kenpo Ju Jitsu
Baltimore, MD
http://www.arnis.org/certification/regi ... awkins.htm
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kenpojujitsu3
http://www.myspace.com/kenpojames
410-948-1440
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Joined: January 16th, 2004, 7:56 pm

October 9th, 2007, 3:13 pm #6

Howz it everyone!
It's been a little quiet in here lately, so I thought I would post a topic that has sparked my curiousity recently.

I came across a website(www.elite-fightes.com) selling A.K. cd-roms and there is a portion that features what they are calling Cane Set 1 & 2 and a Karambit set 2. The website states that the sets were adapted from Short Forms 4 & 5 as well as Mass Attack.
Does anyone have any knowledge or experience with these forms and their history? Also, what about Karambit Set 1...was this a precursor to Long Form 8? I was under the impression that Long Form 8 was created with the help of Gil Hibben and his Kenpo Knife complemented this form.

Thanks for your time,
Hayden



"Fear is defeat, defeat is death"--- me
There is no short and Long Form 4, there is only Form 4. There was never a Form 8, there was only a Knife Set, which Parker did not like. Cane and Karambit Sets are not Ed Parker's American Kenpo forms. Some will talk about Tiger and Crane, or Book Set, when the reality is Parker did not include these in the final begining versions of "American Kenpo".

The creative activities of many in Kenpo move me positively. I simply consider it important that we do not allow our enthusiasms to breed altered versions of history.

-WI
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Joined: February 20th, 2004, 6:49 pm

October 9th, 2007, 3:55 pm #7

I believe Mass Attack is from Tracy's Kenpo.
Duke
Mass Attack was developed for tournaments...it was introduced in the 60's Parker and Tracy's. Although we Tracy System people still teach it.

Short 4 was meant only for tournaments (right side only of Long 4).

Dave Simmons
Twin Dragon Kenpo Karate
<a href="http://www.mnkenpokarate.com</a" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.mnkenpokarate.com</a>
e-mail: twindragondave@hotmail.com
Last edited by DaveSimmons on October 9th, 2007, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: November 24th, 2004, 9:07 pm

October 9th, 2007, 4:45 pm #8

There is no short and Long Form 4, there is only Form 4. There was never a Form 8, there was only a Knife Set, which Parker did not like. Cane and Karambit Sets are not Ed Parker's American Kenpo forms. Some will talk about Tiger and Crane, or Book Set, when the reality is Parker did not include these in the final begining versions of "American Kenpo".

The creative activities of many in Kenpo move me positively. I simply consider it important that we do not allow our enthusiasms to breed altered versions of history.

-WI
>There is no short and Long Form 4<

There is a Short 4, and I'm the originator, at least according to Mr. Parker.

In 1987 I entered the Long Beach Internationals black belt competition. When my name was called for to perform my kata, and after the usual introductions, I began - got about 25 moves into Form 4, and then stopped abruptly because I reinjured my ankle, which in turn caused me to freeze. Knowing my ankle would get worse if I continued, I closed out the form, bowed respectfully, and then walked to the sidelines. When the head judge asked if I wanted to redo the form, I respectfully declined.

Hours later I was walking down a corridor, and when I rounded a corner, found myself face-to-face with Mr. Parker, who said with a slight grin, "Hey, Tom, I heard about your making history earlier." I replied, "What history?" He said, "Your performance of Short Form 4!" And off he went. I was a little embarrassed, to say the least. While true that since I debuted Short 4 in August 1987 no one has asked about it or performed it, but who cares? I'm the originator of what has become "a forgotten form!"

Salute
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Joined: January 20th, 2004, 7:04 pm

October 9th, 2007, 5:15 pm #9

There is no short and Long Form 4, there is only Form 4. There was never a Form 8, there was only a Knife Set, which Parker did not like. Cane and Karambit Sets are not Ed Parker's American Kenpo forms. Some will talk about Tiger and Crane, or Book Set, when the reality is Parker did not include these in the final begining versions of "American Kenpo".

The creative activities of many in Kenpo move me positively. I simply consider it important that we do not allow our enthusiasms to breed altered versions of history.

-WI
After talking with Mr. Tatum there is Form 8,

It was the last form that Ed Parker created and taught to Mr. Tatum. In fact Ed Parker Jr. has a DVD where Mr. Parker is teaching Mr. Tatum the form. Mr. Tatum went on to teach the form to Ernie George who competed with it in the Internationals.

Subsequently the form has been passed on to other Kenpoists and has become a standard for the Encyclopedia of Knife fighting. What Mr. Parker arranged in the form was every conceivable angle the knife could be used on via the Universal Pattern...In the form there are seven points of isolation where new chapters begin in the angle changes, usage of the knife, and multi-dimensional application.

Note: The form also illustrates the potential problems with the knife being used back on the defender (the person executing the form). This is a reminder.

The form is there for anyone who is willing to delve into a side of the art that opens up another world of understanding in the art of Kenpo and how it passes from empty hand to a man made weapon.

Hope this helps.

Back to the mats,

Angela
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Joined: January 16th, 2004, 7:56 pm

October 9th, 2007, 5:27 pm #10

>There is no short and Long Form 4<

There is a Short 4, and I'm the originator, at least according to Mr. Parker.

In 1987 I entered the Long Beach Internationals black belt competition. When my name was called for to perform my kata, and after the usual introductions, I began - got about 25 moves into Form 4, and then stopped abruptly because I reinjured my ankle, which in turn caused me to freeze. Knowing my ankle would get worse if I continued, I closed out the form, bowed respectfully, and then walked to the sidelines. When the head judge asked if I wanted to redo the form, I respectfully declined.

Hours later I was walking down a corridor, and when I rounded a corner, found myself face-to-face with Mr. Parker, who said with a slight grin, "Hey, Tom, I heard about your making history earlier." I replied, "What history?" He said, "Your performance of Short Form 4!" And off he went. I was a little embarrassed, to say the least. While true that since I debuted Short 4 in August 1987 no one has asked about it or performed it, but who cares? I'm the originator of what has become "a forgotten form!"

Salute
Very funny.

Yours,
W
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