Another finger set video

Another finger set video

Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

May 28th, 2009, 3:06 pm #1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOsK7ooF ... re=related

I don't know this fellow, but I have never seen finger set like this before.
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Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:34 am

May 28th, 2009, 4:02 pm #2

I figger, trying to do AK in the East Bloc, with no seniors anywhere within a couple thousand miles, takes some courage. He gets what he can from video sources, and is one of the most grateful practitioners out there when he can get even a slight tip for improvement.

The footage I've seen of him doing techniques is certainly not up to any BB level snuff I know of, & he wear some pretty high-fallutin red; but the eagerness, earnestness, and humility with which he approaches the effort...we should all wish we had more guys like this under our wings.
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Joined: February 4th, 2004, 8:13 pm

May 28th, 2009, 4:08 pm #3

.
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Joined: November 24th, 2004, 9:07 pm

May 28th, 2009, 4:10 pm #4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOsK7ooF ... re=related

I don't know this fellow, but I have never seen finger set like this before.
As was the case with the previous video you supplied, this gentleman also isn't hitting many of his targets - the most obvious being those to his front/back attacker's groins. And, as was the case with the other person, centerline issues. Well, at least the slicing is back. Last, here's that dubious reference to "angles" of attack. But who really cares? I got ten times the response to my Zipper fiasco than I did from trying to discuss our kenpo terminology.

And speaking of fiasco, we're heading into the weekend. Anyone care to wager if Amen will resurface after spewing forth his Swan Song? Or maybe that other fellow who bowed out (somewhat ungracefully) again a couple weeks back?

Salute
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Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:34 am

May 28th, 2009, 4:46 pm #5

Angle of incidence is defined as 90-degrees...the path of entry being 1 leg of the T, the planar surface you're striking being the other.

In angled attacks, the planar surface is one line of measure, and the vector of entry the other line. Measure the angle. I can punch someone in the face at a 90, or come slightly from the side at a 45. I can even level it up from underneath, requiring measurement in a 3rd dimension...cartesian, and all that.

I just thought you were being facetious, because most folks use the terminology without thought. I didn't know you were seriously implying that no such definitions were applicable.

And besides...I hated math in school; why would I wanna revisit it?

D.
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

May 28th, 2009, 5:35 pm #6

I figger, trying to do AK in the East Bloc, with no seniors anywhere within a couple thousand miles, takes some courage. He gets what he can from video sources, and is one of the most grateful practitioners out there when he can get even a slight tip for improvement.

The footage I've seen of him doing techniques is certainly not up to any BB level snuff I know of, & he wear some pretty high-fallutin red; but the eagerness, earnestness, and humility with which he approaches the effort...we should all wish we had more guys like this under our wings.
BB being Blue belt I hope, for that is where the finger set comes in... Or so I have read.

Gary
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Joined: November 24th, 2004, 9:07 pm

May 28th, 2009, 6:05 pm #7

Angle of incidence is defined as 90-degrees...the path of entry being 1 leg of the T, the planar surface you're striking being the other.

In angled attacks, the planar surface is one line of measure, and the vector of entry the other line. Measure the angle. I can punch someone in the face at a 90, or come slightly from the side at a 45. I can even level it up from underneath, requiring measurement in a 3rd dimension...cartesian, and all that.

I just thought you were being facetious, because most folks use the terminology without thought. I didn't know you were seriously implying that no such definitions were applicable.

And besides...I hated math in school; why would I wanna revisit it?

D.
>I just thought you were being facetious, because most folks use the terminology without thought.<<br>

This was exactly my point - many students and instructors use these terms without thought because they haven't given thought to these terms. I know this from my own personal experience of simply asking them.

>I didn't know you were seriously implying that no such definitions were applicable.<<br>
Well, yes and no, depending on whom you ask.

>Angle of incidence is defined as 90-degrees...the path of entry being 1 leg of the T, the planar surface you're striking being the other.<<br>
I would be willing to wager if you asked 50 kenpoists, "Is the Angle of Incidence always a 90 degree angle, or can it vary depending on circumstances?" that the majority would answer that the Angle of Incidence doesn't have to always be a 90 degree angle - and some would launch into a detailed explanation about the ideal phase, etc.

>In angled attacks, the planar surface is one line of measure, and the vector of entry the other line. Measure the angle. I can punch someone in the face at a 90, or come slightly from the side at a 45.<<br>
Provided that when you move off to a 45 degree angle that your opponent doesn't turn their head and look at you?

Here's an example of how these definitions can quickly become confusing. "Angle of Incidence - Refers to your weapon making contact with your target on a perpendicular angle (right angle to each other) that will render the greatest effect."

Okay. Let's say your target is your opponent's knee - and that your opponent is a Shotokan martial artist, who stands with his foot turned out so that his shin faces you directly. If you kick a low thusting heel kick to his shin, I'm assuming you would define this planar surface as a straight line running at right angles to your incoming kick. However, if you were to deliver a front roundhouse to the side of your opponent's knee joint and dislocate his knee, you'd would say the planar surface ran parallel to your opponent's centerline, correct? Now the question - you've got two different Angles of Incidence that are defined by which kick you choose to deliver that would "render the greatest effect" - and keep in mind that in order to define this angle correctly you have to make this decision before launching either of your two attacks. My point is that the true Angle of Incidence isn't determined by your execution but rather your making a mental decision concerning which (of many) weapon/target combinations will render the most damage. As an aside, when I ran in Internet search on "Kenpo terminology and then honed in on "angles," I discovered that many of these terms either had conflicting definitions or were without any definitions at all, which begs the question "Why is that?" Here's one example:


http://www.kenpo-texas.com/kenpoterminology.html#A


>And besides...I hated math in school; why would I wanna revisit it?<<br>
It's not the math that's important, but the visualization of these concepts. My experience is that in the minds of many kenpoists from white belt through ranks of black these understandings are vague. Thanks for weighing in.

Cheers
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Joined: October 14th, 2005, 5:16 am

May 28th, 2009, 6:11 pm #8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOsK7ooF ... re=related

I don't know this fellow, but I have never seen finger set like this before.
Location obtained...

http://www.kenpo-texas.com/kenpojs.html
*********

FINGER SET 1

Unless stated, you will want to chamber the arm that is not executing a strike.

Opening:
1. Attention
2. Meditative horse stance

1. Execute a right 2 finger horizontal hand spear to your attacker's left eye.
2. Execute a left 2 finger horizontal hand spear to your attacker's right eye.
3. Execute a mid-range right vertical 3 finger hand spear to the attacker's solar plexus.
4. Execute a mid-range left vertical 3 finger hand spear to the attacker's solar plexus.
5. Execute a short range right upward 4 finger hand spear (palm up) below the left floating rib of the attacker.
6. Execute a short range left upward 4 finger hand spear (palm up) below the right floating rib of the attacker.
7. Execute a left back elbow to your rear attacker's solar plexus as you simultaneously strike over your left shoulder with a right 2 finger horizontal thrust.
8. Execute a right back elbow to your rear attacker's solar plexus as you simultaneously strike over your right shoulder with a left 2 finger horizontal thrust.
9. Bring the two fingers of your right hand next to your left hand at your right shoulder in preparation for the next move. Execute two downward finger slices that whip into your attacker's eyes and rake down.
10. Execute, with both hands, vertical two finger spears to your attacker's eyes (left thrusts to right eye and right thrusts to left eye.)
11. As you return your hands to point of origin, cross the wrists right over left. Execute two vertical one finger eye pokes that scissor inward as you extend the strikes slicing inward across the opponents eyes.
12. Right hand cocks coiled in a crane hand (fingers down and toward opponent) as your left hand checks down at the groin.
13. Execute a right overhead finger whip.
14. Your left hand cocks coiled in a crane hand (fingers down and toward opponent) as your right hand checks down at the groin.
15. Check down clockwise with your left hand (suppressing check) as the right and cocks behind and to the right of your right hip in a crane hand (palm up and fingers pointed toward the opponent); execute a right downward finger whip from your right hip into your attacker's groin fulcrum the whipping weapon at your wrist to accelerate the end of the weapon before returning it to point of origin.
16. Circle the right hand counterclockwise to check down with your right left hand in front of your groin (suppressing check), as the right hand cocks behind and to the right of your right hip in a crane hand (palm up and fingers pointed toward the opponent); execute a right downward finger whip from your right hip into your attacker's groin fulcrum the whipping weapon at your wrist to accelerate the end of the weapon before returning it to point of origin.
17. Circle your left hand clockwise checking down and in front of your groin (suppressing check) as your right hand circles counterclockwise to eye level (interlocking circles); execute a closed inward right two finger slice (palm up) to your attacker's left eye and immediately rotate your wrist counterclockwise so you are now positioned to execute
an outward 2 finger slice back to the right, with your palm down. Execute the outward right 2 finger slice.
18. Circle your right hand counterclockwise checking down and in front of your groin (suppressing check) as your left hand circles clockwise to eye level (interlocking circles); execute a closed inward left two finger slice (palm up) to your attacker's right eye and immediately rotate your wrist clockwise so you are now positioned to execute an
outward 2 finger slice back to the left, with your palm down. Execute the outward 2 finger slice.
19. Execute a right thrusting 5 finger claw to your attacker's face. Rotate your wrist counterclockwise then clockwise, raking the eyes with your fingers but maintaining contact with the outside heel of the hand (windshield wipers).
20. Execute a left thrusting 5 finger claw to your attacker's face. Rotate your wrist clockwise then clockwise, raking the eyes with your fingers but maintaining contact with the outside heel of the hand (windshield wipers).
21. Execute a right inward overhead claw towards 12:00 as you simultaneously execute a left back underhand claw to 6:00.
22. Execute a left inward overhead claw towards 12:00 as you simultaneously execute a right rear underhand claw to 6:00.
23. Execute simultaneous underhand claws, a right underhand claw towards 12:00 and a left back claw towards 6:00.
24. Execute simultaneous underhand claws, a left underhand claw towards 12:00 and a right underhand claw towards 12:00.
25. Execute double upward spear hand thrust into your attacker's throat eyes at 12:00, followed by 2 outward raking claws to the eyes.
26. Execute two outward claws; one towards 9:00 and one towards 3:00; follow through with double heel palm strikes to your thighs and demonstrate the fulcrum effect as your wrists straighten and your fingertips touch the vastus lateralus in a claw position.
27. Execute a right vertical 2 finger thrust to their left eye at 12:00, hook inward and pull hand back to chest with fingers pointing up.
28. Execute a left vertical 2 finger thrust to their right eye at 12:00, hook inward and pull hand back to chest with fingers pointing up.

Regards,
Gary
Last edited by BGile on May 28th, 2009, 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 15th, 2005, 3:34 am

May 28th, 2009, 6:20 pm #9

>I just thought you were being facetious, because most folks use the terminology without thought.<<br>

This was exactly my point - many students and instructors use these terms without thought because they haven't given thought to these terms. I know this from my own personal experience of simply asking them.

>I didn't know you were seriously implying that no such definitions were applicable.<<br>
Well, yes and no, depending on whom you ask.

>Angle of incidence is defined as 90-degrees...the path of entry being 1 leg of the T, the planar surface you're striking being the other.<<br>
I would be willing to wager if you asked 50 kenpoists, "Is the Angle of Incidence always a 90 degree angle, or can it vary depending on circumstances?" that the majority would answer that the Angle of Incidence doesn't have to always be a 90 degree angle - and some would launch into a detailed explanation about the ideal phase, etc.

>In angled attacks, the planar surface is one line of measure, and the vector of entry the other line. Measure the angle. I can punch someone in the face at a 90, or come slightly from the side at a 45.<<br>
Provided that when you move off to a 45 degree angle that your opponent doesn't turn their head and look at you?

Here's an example of how these definitions can quickly become confusing. "Angle of Incidence - Refers to your weapon making contact with your target on a perpendicular angle (right angle to each other) that will render the greatest effect."

Okay. Let's say your target is your opponent's knee - and that your opponent is a Shotokan martial artist, who stands with his foot turned out so that his shin faces you directly. If you kick a low thusting heel kick to his shin, I'm assuming you would define this planar surface as a straight line running at right angles to your incoming kick. However, if you were to deliver a front roundhouse to the side of your opponent's knee joint and dislocate his knee, you'd would say the planar surface ran parallel to your opponent's centerline, correct? Now the question - you've got two different Angles of Incidence that are defined by which kick you choose to deliver that would "render the greatest effect" - and keep in mind that in order to define this angle correctly you have to make this decision before launching either of your two attacks. My point is that the true Angle of Incidence isn't determined by your execution but rather your making a mental decision concerning which (of many) weapon/target combinations will render the most damage. As an aside, when I ran in Internet search on "Kenpo terminology and then honed in on "angles," I discovered that many of these terms either had conflicting definitions or were without any definitions at all, which begs the question "Why is that?" Here's one example:


http://www.kenpo-texas.com/kenpoterminology.html#A


>And besides...I hated math in school; why would I wanna revisit it?<<br>
It's not the math that's important, but the visualization of these concepts. My experience is that in the minds of many kenpoists from white belt through ranks of black these understandings are vague. Thanks for weighing in.

Cheers
Dig biomechanics, and am just about always brushing up on some aspect of it, considering how it applies to kenpo. Something that stands out to me is how we rob basics of power by trying to force linear blows out of limbs whose joints are designed to allow movement and translation in circular motions. Allowing the parts to move in a circle makes for more natural application from muscle groups, allowing greater degrees of recruitment in the blow. Leading to more power on impact. We have to do a lot of contradictory muscle sequencing to make circular joints stay on linear paths...like slowing down the club before it hits the golf ball, instead of milking natural motion for all that can be gained from it.

Attempting to use linear terms to describe motions which are better understood as circular paths transmitting force through multiple tangents (which demands a study of vector sums in strike manipulation), with the path passing through the attackers body, is a much more effective way to conceptualize the process. But then we might have to reconsider the terms, and their defs. Or at least, hedge a lot on their meanings, installing wiggle room for interpretation.
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Joined: October 21st, 2006, 9:13 pm

May 28th, 2009, 7:11 pm #10

that linear strikes should not be extended to their fullest, but take advantage of back up mass to allow for penetration into the target. I can't tell you how often I have been surprised by hoiw effective a front kick can be when you are closer than you might think it effective.

Dave, does the hay maker punch, the plant and swing from the shoulder and from the cheap seats, benefit from the opposite of the front kick I postulated? I think so. The pivot point, or actually the topple point of the planted foot, stabilizes the mass and the the arm swings forward for max apex concussion. That is how it works in my mind anyways.

Clark
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