22xx trigger mod based on the KISS principal

22xx trigger mod based on the KISS principal

Joined: November 15th, 2002, 3:25 am

June 1st, 2009, 8:14 pm #1

I have always been intrigued by the often complex, complete re-designs of the triggers for these guns - involving completely changing the geometry of the parts and/or pivot points, etc. I have also often wondered just how much of this was really necessary to accomplish the task of improving the trigger to at least an acceptable pull weight for a target pistol.

I had this idea getting bounced around in the ole' noggin for a while, and I finally decided to try it out and see what the results would be. The key is to reduce the two major friction points in the system - the trigger to sear contact point, and the sear to hammer contact point. The former was accomplished by installing a ball bearing into the top of the trigger lobe, where it contacts the sear. The safety detent ball is the perfect size, at 3/32" dia. It was set into the trigger lobe to a depth of 1/16". The ball rotates very freely and smoothly in this hole, and it is held in place by nothing more than a dab of grease.




Next up, the sear. First thing to do was to square up the top of the sear, so that the edge is square to the face of the sear. Next, the sear face was given a very gentle curvature, to reduce the surface area in contact with the hammer. The underside of the forward part of the sear is also polished, giving the ball bearing that was installed in the trigger lobe a smooth path to operate.



Last item in the mod is to install a 6-32 set-screw that has had a taper cut on the trigger-contact end. This screw adjusts the sear engagement, and as an added bonus, the taper serves as the over-travel. The red circle shows the gap between trigger and sear where the ball bearing now acts, and the green circle shows the point where the taper will control overtravel. The stock sear spring is used, as-is.



The safety was done away with, as many folks generally do. this allowed me to use the safety ball for the trigger mod, and to plug the holes formerly occupied by the safety, I made a couple of delrin plugs up, which press into the holes, and serve to eliminate much of the side-to-side slop of the trigger.

I don't have a proper trigger pull gauge, but using a fish scale, the trigger breaks at just under 2 pounds, or less than 1 kg. A lighter sear spring, or an adjustable one would probably serve to lighten this up even more, but I am more comfortable with the weight at it's current level.


Last edited by leonardj on March 26th, 2011, 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 6th, 2009, 5:12 pm

June 1st, 2009, 9:24 pm #2

to a beleaguered problem.
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Joined: April 12th, 2002, 5:26 am

June 1st, 2009, 9:29 pm #3

I have always been intrigued by the often complex, complete re-designs of the triggers for these guns - involving completely changing the geometry of the parts and/or pivot points, etc. I have also often wondered just how much of this was really necessary to accomplish the task of improving the trigger to at least an acceptable pull weight for a target pistol.

I had this idea getting bounced around in the ole' noggin for a while, and I finally decided to try it out and see what the results would be. The key is to reduce the two major friction points in the system - the trigger to sear contact point, and the sear to hammer contact point. The former was accomplished by installing a ball bearing into the top of the trigger lobe, where it contacts the sear. The safety detent ball is the perfect size, at 3/32" dia. It was set into the trigger lobe to a depth of 1/16". The ball rotates very freely and smoothly in this hole, and it is held in place by nothing more than a dab of grease.




Next up, the sear. First thing to do was to square up the top of the sear, so that the edge is square to the face of the sear. Next, the sear face was given a very gentle curvature, to reduce the surface area in contact with the hammer. The underside of the forward part of the sear is also polished, giving the ball bearing that was installed in the trigger lobe a smooth path to operate.



Last item in the mod is to install a 6-32 set-screw that has had a taper cut on the trigger-contact end. This screw adjusts the sear engagement, and as an added bonus, the taper serves as the over-travel. The red circle shows the gap between trigger and sear where the ball bearing now acts, and the green circle shows the point where the taper will control overtravel. The stock sear spring is used, as-is.



The safety was done away with, as many folks generally do. this allowed me to use the safety ball for the trigger mod, and to plug the holes formerly occupied by the safety, I made a couple of delrin plugs up, which press into the holes, and serve to eliminate much of the side-to-side slop of the trigger.

I don't have a proper trigger pull gauge, but using a fish scale, the trigger breaks at just under 2 pounds, or less than 1 kg. A lighter sear spring, or an adjustable one would probably serve to lighten this up even more, but I am more comfortable with the weight at it's current level.

and pics.
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Joined: July 6th, 2005, 5:26 am

June 1st, 2009, 9:32 pm #4

that makes a lot of sense to me. kiss.....I like that approach.
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Joined: June 11th, 2004, 3:53 pm

June 1st, 2009, 10:52 pm #5

I have always been intrigued by the often complex, complete re-designs of the triggers for these guns - involving completely changing the geometry of the parts and/or pivot points, etc. I have also often wondered just how much of this was really necessary to accomplish the task of improving the trigger to at least an acceptable pull weight for a target pistol.

I had this idea getting bounced around in the ole' noggin for a while, and I finally decided to try it out and see what the results would be. The key is to reduce the two major friction points in the system - the trigger to sear contact point, and the sear to hammer contact point. The former was accomplished by installing a ball bearing into the top of the trigger lobe, where it contacts the sear. The safety detent ball is the perfect size, at 3/32" dia. It was set into the trigger lobe to a depth of 1/16". The ball rotates very freely and smoothly in this hole, and it is held in place by nothing more than a dab of grease.




Next up, the sear. First thing to do was to square up the top of the sear, so that the edge is square to the face of the sear. Next, the sear face was given a very gentle curvature, to reduce the surface area in contact with the hammer. The underside of the forward part of the sear is also polished, giving the ball bearing that was installed in the trigger lobe a smooth path to operate.



Last item in the mod is to install a 6-32 set-screw that has had a taper cut on the trigger-contact end. This screw adjusts the sear engagement, and as an added bonus, the taper serves as the over-travel. The red circle shows the gap between trigger and sear where the ball bearing now acts, and the green circle shows the point where the taper will control overtravel. The stock sear spring is used, as-is.



The safety was done away with, as many folks generally do. this allowed me to use the safety ball for the trigger mod, and to plug the holes formerly occupied by the safety, I made a couple of delrin plugs up, which press into the holes, and serve to eliminate much of the side-to-side slop of the trigger.

I don't have a proper trigger pull gauge, but using a fish scale, the trigger breaks at just under 2 pounds, or less than 1 kg. A lighter sear spring, or an adjustable one would probably serve to lighten this up even more, but I am more comfortable with the weight at it's current level.

Yet again another creative solution. This is a GREAT forum. Maybe someday I'll add something unique.

LUK
Be Well... Tom
Think as though you LIFE depends on it...IT DOES!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Joined: July 17th, 2005, 3:14 pm

June 1st, 2009, 11:05 pm #6

I have always been intrigued by the often complex, complete re-designs of the triggers for these guns - involving completely changing the geometry of the parts and/or pivot points, etc. I have also often wondered just how much of this was really necessary to accomplish the task of improving the trigger to at least an acceptable pull weight for a target pistol.

I had this idea getting bounced around in the ole' noggin for a while, and I finally decided to try it out and see what the results would be. The key is to reduce the two major friction points in the system - the trigger to sear contact point, and the sear to hammer contact point. The former was accomplished by installing a ball bearing into the top of the trigger lobe, where it contacts the sear. The safety detent ball is the perfect size, at 3/32" dia. It was set into the trigger lobe to a depth of 1/16". The ball rotates very freely and smoothly in this hole, and it is held in place by nothing more than a dab of grease.




Next up, the sear. First thing to do was to square up the top of the sear, so that the edge is square to the face of the sear. Next, the sear face was given a very gentle curvature, to reduce the surface area in contact with the hammer. The underside of the forward part of the sear is also polished, giving the ball bearing that was installed in the trigger lobe a smooth path to operate.



Last item in the mod is to install a 6-32 set-screw that has had a taper cut on the trigger-contact end. This screw adjusts the sear engagement, and as an added bonus, the taper serves as the over-travel. The red circle shows the gap between trigger and sear where the ball bearing now acts, and the green circle shows the point where the taper will control overtravel. The stock sear spring is used, as-is.



The safety was done away with, as many folks generally do. this allowed me to use the safety ball for the trigger mod, and to plug the holes formerly occupied by the safety, I made a couple of delrin plugs up, which press into the holes, and serve to eliminate much of the side-to-side slop of the trigger.

I don't have a proper trigger pull gauge, but using a fish scale, the trigger breaks at just under 2 pounds, or less than 1 kg. A lighter sear spring, or an adjustable one would probably serve to lighten this up even more, but I am more comfortable with the weight at it's current level.

A very respectable trigger can be made with stock parts and simple hand tools. Will it ever be a match grade two stage? No, but it can certainly get the job done. It all depends on how demanding you are of the trigger and how much time/money you want to spend.

I made this one a couple years ago and still use it. The pull is under a pound and quite crisp.



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Joined: June 11th, 2004, 3:53 pm

June 1st, 2009, 11:29 pm #7

the infamous spring on the front end of the trigger. I knew there had to be someone else who does that.

LUK
Be Well... Tom
Think as though you LIFE depends on it...IT DOES!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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Joined: September 25th, 2006, 2:19 pm

June 2nd, 2009, 12:13 am #8

..on the trigger is a bad idea? Being "infamous" and all.
Ron
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Joined: September 6th, 2006, 3:27 am

June 2nd, 2009, 1:22 am #9

I have always been intrigued by the often complex, complete re-designs of the triggers for these guns - involving completely changing the geometry of the parts and/or pivot points, etc. I have also often wondered just how much of this was really necessary to accomplish the task of improving the trigger to at least an acceptable pull weight for a target pistol.

I had this idea getting bounced around in the ole' noggin for a while, and I finally decided to try it out and see what the results would be. The key is to reduce the two major friction points in the system - the trigger to sear contact point, and the sear to hammer contact point. The former was accomplished by installing a ball bearing into the top of the trigger lobe, where it contacts the sear. The safety detent ball is the perfect size, at 3/32" dia. It was set into the trigger lobe to a depth of 1/16". The ball rotates very freely and smoothly in this hole, and it is held in place by nothing more than a dab of grease.




Next up, the sear. First thing to do was to square up the top of the sear, so that the edge is square to the face of the sear. Next, the sear face was given a very gentle curvature, to reduce the surface area in contact with the hammer. The underside of the forward part of the sear is also polished, giving the ball bearing that was installed in the trigger lobe a smooth path to operate.



Last item in the mod is to install a 6-32 set-screw that has had a taper cut on the trigger-contact end. This screw adjusts the sear engagement, and as an added bonus, the taper serves as the over-travel. The red circle shows the gap between trigger and sear where the ball bearing now acts, and the green circle shows the point where the taper will control overtravel. The stock sear spring is used, as-is.



The safety was done away with, as many folks generally do. this allowed me to use the safety ball for the trigger mod, and to plug the holes formerly occupied by the safety, I made a couple of delrin plugs up, which press into the holes, and serve to eliminate much of the side-to-side slop of the trigger.

I don't have a proper trigger pull gauge, but using a fish scale, the trigger breaks at just under 2 pounds, or less than 1 kg. A lighter sear spring, or an adjustable one would probably serve to lighten this up even more, but I am more comfortable with the weight at it's current level.

Hope you don't mind if I borrow that idea, it sure looks like a winner.
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Joined: June 11th, 2004, 3:53 pm

June 2nd, 2009, 1:23 am #10

..on the trigger is a bad idea? Being "infamous" and all.
Ron
but when I did it awhile back someone commented that it might set the gun off if it was too strong. I just said 'infamous' because I've been talking about it for awhile, and you're only the second person I've seen doing it. I think it's a great idea because it takes up all the pre-pull slack and if it's just right it helps reduce the preceived pull weight.

I use a similar trick in the 2260 trigger group along with the two set screws.

LUK
Be Well... Tom
Think as though you LIFE depends on it...IT DOES!
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
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