1377 build off: Im gonna say no to the $90 limit// some basic rules

I dont hink its possible to buy a gun, and the optics for under 90 dollars. Ok, GOOD optics that is.

Tom's post (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/m ... %26quot%3B) makes sense, but I have over 90 in parts (that are not airgun parts nor specifically airgun parts, and Ive not even added a scope )

Spend as much as you feel like, but here's my first take on some 1377 build off rules:

No trade secrets. ALL particpates must explain the whys and hows of what they built. If your not willing to share the particulars, dont enter.

Gun powered by the pump. No after market pump or piston parts allowed. All custom work by the contestant, or under contestant's direction.

Must be a 1377 or variant (PC77, 2289 etc) pump tube. Custom cut tubes allowed if they are dimnesionally indentical to the crosman product. Use of unobtanium discouraged

must use a crosman 22xx/13xx pistol grip frame. Mods to the frame allowable but must retain mounting points, and trigger pivot point

Must retain either the factory sear or factory trigger blade

Factory safety must work

Single shot breach only.  After market breeches allowed, with this exception: if the vendor sells a "top end kit" you may only use one part of that kit. (Not to pick on Crosmods, but they come to mind, if you get a Crosmods breech, you cannot use their shrouding systems or components. If you use a crosman steel breech you can use the crosmods shrouding parts) 

Guns converted to carbines must use either the Crosman 1399 (is that the correct p/n?) stock, or a one the contestant built. No purchased stocks (afreomentioend excepted). Steve Corcocran, Mike Chavka and Paul Bishop may enter this, but must carve the stock with the non-dominant hand only or use dull tooling.

 

So thats  ruff stab off the top of my uncaffeinated head. Discuss, debate.

 


dr_subsonic's pneumatic research lab

the Lunatic Fringe of American Airgunning
Southwest Montana's headquarters for Airgunning Supremacy
Proud Sponsor of team_subsonic

ine day!!!!!!!!! so we can all post 10 -20 pics, and all the groups we shoot, and all the info.. Yes it will take up the whole page that day , but its just 1 day!!!! we clutter this place anyway

IIRC you stated what classes you were comepeteing in.

I'd like ot add one to that: competitors' choice. Where the contestants pic one (likme a peoples choice)

 


dr_subsonic's pneumatic research lab

the Lunatic Fringe of American Airgunning
Southwest Montana's headquarters for Airgunning Supremacy
Proud Sponsor of team_subsonic

and can i make mine any caliber i want?????

nt


dr_subsonic's pneumatic research lab

the Lunatic Fringe of American Airgunning
Southwest Montana's headquarters for Airgunning Supremacy
Proud Sponsor of team_subsonic

he will fill u in on all the details when he shows up[

I dont hink its possible to buy a gun, and the optics for under 90 dollars. Ok, GOOD optics that is.

Tom's post (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/m ... %26quot%3B) makes sense, but I have over 90 in parts (that are not airgun parts nor specifically airgun parts, and Ive not even added a scope )

Spend as much as you feel like, but here's my first take on some 1377 build off rules:

No trade secrets. ALL particpates must explain the whys and hows of what they built. If your not willing to share the particulars, dont enter.

Gun powered by the pump. No after market pump or piston parts allowed. All custom work by the contestant, or under contestant's direction.

Must be a 1377 or variant (PC77, 2289 etc) pump tube. Custom cut tubes allowed if they are dimnesionally indentical to the crosman product. Use of unobtanium discouraged

must use a crosman 22xx/13xx pistol grip frame. Mods to the frame allowable but must retain mounting points, and trigger pivot point

Must retain either the factory sear or factory trigger blade

Factory safety must work

Single shot breach only.  After market breeches allowed, with this exception: if the vendor sells a "top end kit" you may only use one part of that kit. (Not to pick on Crosmods, but they come to mind, if you get a Crosmods breech, you cannot use their shrouding systems or components. If you use a crosman steel breech you can use the crosmods shrouding parts) 

Guns converted to carbines must use either the Crosman 1399 (is that the correct p/n?) stock, or a one the contestant built. No purchased stocks (afreomentioend excepted). Steve Corcocran, Mike Chavka and Paul Bishop may enter this, but must carve the stock with the non-dominant hand only or use dull tooling.

 

So thats  ruff stab off the top of my uncaffeinated head. Discuss, debate.

 


dr_subsonic's pneumatic research lab

the Lunatic Fringe of American Airgunning
Southwest Montana's headquarters for Airgunning Supremacy
Proud Sponsor of team_subsonic

OK I'll thow in a few ideas too. Like I mentioned before, what about different classes? Here's an example...

Custom - to allow begining modders to play. Mostly stock with simple mods.

Super Stock - to allow the more advanced to play. Factory pump tube and grip frame must be used. Set financial limit on gun and parts. Discussion of how to handle the value of used/recycled parts would be needed (free or pro-rated value?). Finished gun must still be visually similar to original. With a 1377 it can be a carbine as we all know what a 1377 in carbine mode looks like.

Unlimited - just that unlimited, unlimited parts, unlimited suppliers, unlimited money. Buy all the Crosmod stuff you want. Only two rules to obey(OK so it's not really unlimited I guess). One, you have to use the one part of the gun that identifies what it is/was (all classes would have this rule). Like the receiver of the 760 was the one part everyone had to use in the last build-off. The pump tube of the 1377 has it's ID so that would be the one part that you would have to use. It could be modified any which way you can, but it still has to have the Crosman verbage and serial number on it (once the contest is over you can install your custom titanium no name tube if you want). Two, you only have the specified amount of time to build it.

I was also wondering if we would be interested in self judging, each competitor gets to vote who wins what category in each class. That way we don't have to try and find a judge and so exclude someone who may want to play. Only those with skin in the game can vote. On the pre-determined day a new thread is entered and all contestants post to that thread. Once all entries are in, each contestant makes their choices and then the final verdict is added to the thread. Perhaps we might consider not allowing the competitors vote for the class they were entered in (conflict of interest?)? Just a thought.
Some discussion would be needed to figure out who creates the thread and tabulates the votes. Someone chosen from the contestants ahead of time or a neutral party (and how to find the neutral party?)? Would the contestants post their votes or email them to the tabulator?

Maybe we're getting too complex. What if we make it so anybody can enter and build a 1377 (or whatever) anyway they like and we just post what we've done at the end of the build. No contest, no judge, no prizes. Just to see what can be done with the one part that identifies the gun and 6 to 8 weeks whatever build the time is.



I plink, therefore I am.

I dont hink its possible to buy a gun, and the optics for under 90 dollars. Ok, GOOD optics that is.

Tom's post (http://www.network54.com/Forum/275684/m ... %26quot%3B) makes sense, but I have over 90 in parts (that are not airgun parts nor specifically airgun parts, and Ive not even added a scope )

Spend as much as you feel like, but here's my first take on some 1377 build off rules:

No trade secrets. ALL particpates must explain the whys and hows of what they built. If your not willing to share the particulars, dont enter.

Gun powered by the pump. No after market pump or piston parts allowed. All custom work by the contestant, or under contestant's direction.

Must be a 1377 or variant (PC77, 2289 etc) pump tube. Custom cut tubes allowed if they are dimnesionally indentical to the crosman product. Use of unobtanium discouraged

must use a crosman 22xx/13xx pistol grip frame. Mods to the frame allowable but must retain mounting points, and trigger pivot point

Must retain either the factory sear or factory trigger blade

Factory safety must work

Single shot breach only.  After market breeches allowed, with this exception: if the vendor sells a "top end kit" you may only use one part of that kit. (Not to pick on Crosmods, but they come to mind, if you get a Crosmods breech, you cannot use their shrouding systems or components. If you use a crosman steel breech you can use the crosmods shrouding parts) 

Guns converted to carbines must use either the Crosman 1399 (is that the correct p/n?) stock, or a one the contestant built. No purchased stocks (afreomentioend excepted). Steve Corcocran, Mike Chavka and Paul Bishop may enter this, but must carve the stock with the non-dominant hand only or use dull tooling.

 

So thats  ruff stab off the top of my uncaffeinated head. Discuss, debate.

 


dr_subsonic's pneumatic research lab

the Lunatic Fringe of American Airgunning
Southwest Montana's headquarters for Airgunning Supremacy
Proud Sponsor of team_subsonic

I haven't seen any post on when the deadline is going to be.

Jan 1 thru Feb 15 has been mentioned.... but nothing official from the contest commitee yet

dr_subsonic's pneumatic research lab

the Lunatic Fringe of American Airgunning
Southwest Montana's headquarters for Airgunning Supremacy
Proud Sponsor of team_subsonic

OK I'll thow in a few ideas too. Like I mentioned before, what about different classes? Here's an example...

Custom - to allow begining modders to play. Mostly stock with simple mods.

Super Stock - to allow the more advanced to play. Factory pump tube and grip frame must be used. Set financial limit on gun and parts. Discussion of how to handle the value of used/recycled parts would be needed (free or pro-rated value?). Finished gun must still be visually similar to original. With a 1377 it can be a carbine as we all know what a 1377 in carbine mode looks like.

Unlimited - just that unlimited, unlimited parts, unlimited suppliers, unlimited money. Buy all the Crosmod stuff you want. Only two rules to obey(OK so it's not really unlimited I guess). One, you have to use the one part of the gun that identifies what it is/was (all classes would have this rule). Like the receiver of the 760 was the one part everyone had to use in the last build-off. The pump tube of the 1377 has it's ID so that would be the one part that you would have to use. It could be modified any which way you can, but it still has to have the Crosman verbage and serial number on it (once the contest is over you can install your custom titanium no name tube if you want). Two, you only have the specified amount of time to build it.

I was also wondering if we would be interested in self judging, each competitor gets to vote who wins what category in each class. That way we don't have to try and find a judge and so exclude someone who may want to play. Only those with skin in the game can vote. On the pre-determined day a new thread is entered and all contestants post to that thread. Once all entries are in, each contestant makes their choices and then the final verdict is added to the thread. Perhaps we might consider not allowing the competitors vote for the class they were entered in (conflict of interest?)? Just a thought.
Some discussion would be needed to figure out who creates the thread and tabulates the votes. Someone chosen from the contestants ahead of time or a neutral party (and how to find the neutral party?)? Would the contestants post their votes or email them to the tabulator?

Maybe we're getting too complex. What if we make it so anybody can enter and build a 1377 (or whatever) anyway they like and we just post what we've done at the end of the build. No contest, no judge, no prizes. Just to see what can be done with the one part that identifies the gun and 6 to 8 weeks whatever build the time is.



I plink, therefore I am.

and the judging gets too confusing , i really dont care to see a crosmods or multi shot gun ive already seen , we all know that takes 3 to 9 minutes to bolt all together, its borrrringgggggggggg