we the people

we the people

Joined: October 22nd, 2003, 1:43 am

May 7th, 2004, 12:54 pm #1

I have noticed that we Americans are irresponsible,complacent, and yes even lazy with regards to our civil rights. Instead of accepting a challenge to excel we fall back on blaming a political party for or own impotence, our perceived inabity to make a change because of the "party".
PEOPLE MAKE THE CHANGES.
As the preamble to the constitution states ,"We the people".....it doesn't say we the republicans...., we the democrats.....
We the people made this country , not us and them.
An organization, an entity unto itself, strong in numbers, and righteous in cause, will get so much futher than for instance.....top free Republicans,Democrats,Indep, Green party, Socialist party, T.P.N.A.A(The Party No one Actually Accepts) and so on.
Nothing will ever change. Sad but true, because of the adolecent divisions we have created and have put all of our faith in. There is a time and place for our politics to have a function, Top freedom isn't one of the. It is a revelution of thought and behavior that far surpasses any one parties abilities. This is grass roots in its most pure form.
You have to get the numbers, come together, and then be a force to be reckoned with.
"We the people....." It works .
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 7th, 2004, 2:24 pm #2

Yes, these are depressing times for libertarians. We have been moving in the direction of oppression ever since Ed Meese in the early 1980s. And now with the government's excuse of 'fighting terrorism', it has become 'unpatriotic' to even question our loss of personal freedoms. Anyone who wants to get really depressed should read some of David Icke's books.
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peter
peter

May 7th, 2004, 2:33 pm #3

I am not speaking of the "loss" of freedom. I am speaking of the rights of everyone that are protected, the power of a million people walking on the Washinton mall, the apathy and neglect of the American peoples. The weakness of the people is the ignorance they foster. Their lack of motivation to fight for themselves. It really has nothing to do with anything you mentioned. It is about pull the heads of the people out of the sand!
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Joined: April 11th, 2004, 7:40 pm

May 7th, 2004, 2:57 pm #4

EVIL TRIUMPHS WHERE GOOD (WO)MEN KEEP SILENT

Although nobody knows who really said this, and it certainly was not Edmond Burke, to whom it is usually attributed, it certainly resonates.

Governments thrive on the apathy of the masses. Occasionally they are overturned by revolutions. Thus was the United States born.

By the way is this site monitored by the CIA, in which case we are all in trouble? We were speaking hypothetically of course and thinking of Martin Luther King.

"I am convinced that love is the most durable power in the world. It is not an expression of impractical idealism, but of practical realism. Far from being the pious injunction of a Utopian dreamer, love is an absolute necessity for the survival of our civilization."

"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed"

Now we are in trouble with other groups no doubt, but that is no excuse for apathetic acceptance of oppression.

Michael
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peter
peter

May 7th, 2004, 3:05 pm #5

An example I had in mind along with the suffragette movement, the modern homosexual rights movement and others that have sought to change their world for the better.
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 7th, 2004, 4:33 pm #6

I am not speaking of the "loss" of freedom. I am speaking of the rights of everyone that are protected, the power of a million people walking on the Washinton mall, the apathy and neglect of the American peoples. The weakness of the people is the ignorance they foster. Their lack of motivation to fight for themselves. It really has nothing to do with anything you mentioned. It is about pull the heads of the people out of the sand!
Well I think all this is related. I was just a kid in the 1950s, but I remember how conformists and repressive it was. People were afraid to be different. There was such an witch-hunt anti-communism attitude at the time (McCarthy, blacklists) that anyone who dared stand out as unconventional was questioned.

So everyone conformed to what was expected. I don't know if my school actually had an official dress code, but they didn't need one because everyone knew what was expected. There was a very limited range of clothes which were considered acceptable, and no-one tested the limits.

All this changed radically in the 1960s. There was a complete turn around on the part of young people- going from unquestioning compliance of established norms to open defiance and rebellion. I think it began with the Beetles in 1964, when guys began wearing long 'beetle'-style haircuts. This caused a lot of trouble at schools, where guys were expected to wear short well groom hair. Soon the rebellion spread to clothes as well, and in a short time kids going to school wearing stuff that would have been unthinkable a few years earlier.

But like all movements, it was carried to extreme, and provoked a back-lash and a clear change in to conservative direction in the early 1980s with the Reagan's conservative "family values" administration. The country has been moving towards less freedom ever since, such as the recent flap over Janet Jackson and Howard Stern. Stern has been saying the same things for years, but all of a sudden stations are getting threaten and fined for it.

We also see this in the closing of many nude beaches and the passing of ever-more restrictive nudity laws- which is certainly very relevant to breast freedom and BFF.
Last edited by Nat on May 7th, 2004, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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peter
peter

May 7th, 2004, 6:52 pm #7

One of the problems is that although we need to know history, we don't neccessarily need to hold it up as a banner predicting the future.
One of the reasons we study history and document time periods such as the ones you refer to is so we won't make the sam mistakes. Consequentally we are struck with the fears of the past paralysing us into non action now for fear of "punishment".
I know the past, and it is gone. We need to work on the future for the future. I am alive now, Michaela is alive now, my daughters are alive now , so now is where I/ we need to focus. The British empire was intact and had been for a long time,at the time we decided strike out on our own. We as a people did not head the histories of others who sought independence and were quelled and look what happened.
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Joined: April 11th, 2004, 7:40 pm

May 7th, 2004, 8:58 pm #8

Listening to this dialectic, I am put in mind of the old expression about whether a cup is half full, or half empty.

Do we bemoan loss of freedoms, or do we take action? If I was a politician or was giving a valedictory, I would be saying something like:

"We have seen the future, and the future is us"

I am not denying the importance of history in showing us the roadmap as to how we got here, and maybe, therefore how we get out of it. I mean we could have talked about the libertarian days of the early seventeenth century, and the rise of Puritanism, or the impact of Queen Victoria, and how war and the Edwardians swept this away. Not a good argument for war, though.

Which is it going to be folks?

Michael
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

May 7th, 2004, 10:04 pm #9

William Strauss and Neil Howe wrote a very interesting book entitled "Generations- the history of America's future". The gist of the book is to document how from the beginning of the country, successive generations have cycled between liberal and conservative.

Actually they break it down to four steps- Idealist, Reactive, Civic and Adaptive. I read this book about 15 years ago, and so far everything they said about what would happen in the 1990s and beyond has been right on target.
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peter
peter

May 8th, 2004, 2:49 am #10

Well, I guess that is that eh .
We are a rodents in a cage running on the exercise wheel , doomed to a predictable and cyclic existance. Might as well quit then right? Throw up the hands and say "you win" to those historians and authors who by their educated guesses and statistics have so surely locked in our future to a concrete pattern that can not be deviated by any force in heaven or on earth.
Bottom line ....we lose.
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