Topfree for The Whole Summer

Topfree for The Whole Summer

Mike
Mike

July 17th, 2004, 6:06 am #1

I actually tried to be topfree for the whole time this summer because I thought it would be a good idea considering im a guy and its legal to do so and I didnt do it to show off or prove anything I just wanted to do it because I was more comfortable that way and wanted to see how much and where I could do it.

I tried it out on the streets alot just to see people's reaction and besides some people yelling at me in cars nobody said much of anything like I didnt think they would. Then I tried in some local stores and places like the 7-11, grocery stores, liquor/drug stores and some fast food places didnt care either. Now as I went along and tried it more places I started to like the feeling of being topfree more, this is the first time I actually have tried doing it on a long term basis and over time it just started to feel better and I tried doing it on the local bus and at some other fast food places and even some shops and it kind of surprised me that alot of these places said I couldnt be without a shirt. Now I thought this to be odd because im a guy and its legal for me to do so. They usually said it had to do with being a public place or for saftey reasons I really think its because alot of these people have body shame and are prejudice and dont like seeing anybody topfree.

So I got kind of upset at this because I couldnt go to alot of places or couldnt get to alot of places outside of walking distance without putting a shirt on and so I emailed and contacted alot of these places and voiced my concern and I usually got some stuffy receptionist or public relations person reply to me and give me a short and rather uninformative excuse and basically told me thats the way it was and I just got really upset because there are alot of loopholes, meaning that many of these places did not list the rules anyplace where you could read them *had them hidden in some employee handbook*, they did not enforce the rules if they had them and they picked and chose who they yelled at for breaking the rules and who they didnt, also they came up with some excuses that made no practical sense whatsoever. A

lso many of these places like McDonalds and the bus allowed me to go topfree several times before they even said anything to me and both of these times they only did so when somebody complained and they asked me to put a shirt on but had no rules posted and did not enforce them beforehand until someone said something and instead of just explaining the situation to them and leaving me alone they had to inconvience me just to satisfy some prude. I just feel that its unfair that me being a guy and that topfreedom being so accepted with people like me that I met so much opposition and that many of these places were not consistant with their rules if they even had any and I just really think ive been mistreated.

I Know its their private business and everything but I wasnt doing anything to hurt myself or others and I wasnt trying to upset anyone I was just going about my usual business and I got yelled at for doing so and half the time they expected me to know about some rule that they didnt even go to the effort of making sure I could know it and I just dont feel its right to respect a rule made by someone who cant even go to the effort of making sure I know it.

I hope somebody here can help me with my situation because im afraid to go topfree anywhere anymore because im always worried someone will yell at me and nobody posts rules anywhere you can find them anymore so you just never know how anybody is gonna react. There ARE lots of places that do let me go topfree but theres still alot that dont that dont have any legitimate reason to require I put a shirt on and I just feel nervous and afraid whenever I go topfree into places but I just dont feel comfortable wearing a shirt anymore unless I absoulutely have to. Anyways any help would be appreciated.
Quote
Share

michaela
michaela

July 17th, 2004, 1:09 pm #2

Actually Mike, I'm surprised you got away with it as much as you did. In the two places in this country where I spent most of my life, Oregon and Texas, it is a written and unwritten law/rule that all places of business have the No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service policy. I think I understand the no shoes part, insurance aganist injury to the customer. In restaurants the no shirt part might be do to health reasons, though I have never really understood why. Maybe they are worried someone will drip persperation or a hair into someones food.

But it has always been this way my whole life (44 years) whether there were signs posted or not. But I think you should keep it up, Mike, if you aren't afraid of being yelled at. Ask them politely if they have a sign stating the policy. But always be polite about it or they might get you arrested for disorderly conduct.
Quote
Share

Boreas
Boreas

July 17th, 2004, 4:08 pm #3

Hi Michaela and Mike,

We have the same rules in a lot of places here. You will see the signs up on many businesses. I think that things might be a bit more relaxed in this area, mostly because people look forward to the times when they don't have to wear parkas and Sorels (anyone know what those are??).

It was interesting to hear a man's version of going topfree. I wonder what would happen to a woman in your community. I somehow doubt she would get so far!

Quote
Share

michaela
michaela

July 17th, 2004, 4:29 pm #4

uh...lets see...parkas=jacket...sorels=boot??? I know we wouldn't get as far as Mike did before we got yelled at. Now how much you want to bet that the ones who would yell at a woman going topfree would be a woman?
Quote
Share

Boreas
Boreas

July 17th, 2004, 6:37 pm #5

I am impressed. Good logic there girl! Yes, Sorels are super duper, heavy duty, ultra warm boots. They go up to your knees and kind of look like mukluks.

Yes, I agree. I do not think we would get as far, and it likely would be women who complained first!

Quote
Share

michaela
michaela

July 17th, 2004, 7:28 pm #6

Quote
Share

Joined: April 11th, 2004, 7:40 pm

July 17th, 2004, 8:04 pm #7

I actually tried to be topfree for the whole time this summer because I thought it would be a good idea considering im a guy and its legal to do so and I didnt do it to show off or prove anything I just wanted to do it because I was more comfortable that way and wanted to see how much and where I could do it.

I tried it out on the streets alot just to see people's reaction and besides some people yelling at me in cars nobody said much of anything like I didnt think they would. Then I tried in some local stores and places like the 7-11, grocery stores, liquor/drug stores and some fast food places didnt care either. Now as I went along and tried it more places I started to like the feeling of being topfree more, this is the first time I actually have tried doing it on a long term basis and over time it just started to feel better and I tried doing it on the local bus and at some other fast food places and even some shops and it kind of surprised me that alot of these places said I couldnt be without a shirt. Now I thought this to be odd because im a guy and its legal for me to do so. They usually said it had to do with being a public place or for saftey reasons I really think its because alot of these people have body shame and are prejudice and dont like seeing anybody topfree.

So I got kind of upset at this because I couldnt go to alot of places or couldnt get to alot of places outside of walking distance without putting a shirt on and so I emailed and contacted alot of these places and voiced my concern and I usually got some stuffy receptionist or public relations person reply to me and give me a short and rather uninformative excuse and basically told me thats the way it was and I just got really upset because there are alot of loopholes, meaning that many of these places did not list the rules anyplace where you could read them *had them hidden in some employee handbook*, they did not enforce the rules if they had them and they picked and chose who they yelled at for breaking the rules and who they didnt, also they came up with some excuses that made no practical sense whatsoever. A

lso many of these places like McDonalds and the bus allowed me to go topfree several times before they even said anything to me and both of these times they only did so when somebody complained and they asked me to put a shirt on but had no rules posted and did not enforce them beforehand until someone said something and instead of just explaining the situation to them and leaving me alone they had to inconvience me just to satisfy some prude. I just feel that its unfair that me being a guy and that topfreedom being so accepted with people like me that I met so much opposition and that many of these places were not consistant with their rules if they even had any and I just really think ive been mistreated.

I Know its their private business and everything but I wasnt doing anything to hurt myself or others and I wasnt trying to upset anyone I was just going about my usual business and I got yelled at for doing so and half the time they expected me to know about some rule that they didnt even go to the effort of making sure I could know it and I just dont feel its right to respect a rule made by someone who cant even go to the effort of making sure I know it.

I hope somebody here can help me with my situation because im afraid to go topfree anywhere anymore because im always worried someone will yell at me and nobody posts rules anywhere you can find them anymore so you just never know how anybody is gonna react. There ARE lots of places that do let me go topfree but theres still alot that dont that dont have any legitimate reason to require I put a shirt on and I just feel nervous and afraid whenever I go topfree into places but I just dont feel comfortable wearing a shirt anymore unless I absoulutely have to. Anyways any help would be appreciated.
I think Michaela summed it up pretty well, Mike. You have a limited number of options, and they will depend on whether we are talking about public places or private places.

You are entitled to challenge rules. If someone asks you to put on a top, you may politely ask them why. If they persist, comply with the request or you will not be able to get anywhere. You can then ask to see the rules, or who you should speak to about the rules. Don't keep going back and challenging the same people or places - or at least not unless you have 25 other like-minded people with you. If you want to be arrested and challenge the rules in court, then go ahead, but again see what Nat says about the need to prove discrimination against a class.

The courts will be impressed with evidence of community standards not Mike's standards. So if you want to provoke arrest, take those 25 other guys with you and insist they be arrested to. That is called civil disobedience, and you will be making a statement and a legal claim on behalf of the class of all men who wish to be topfree. However do not be surprised if someone produces 250 men who think differently, to prove community standards.

Your second recourse is the legislative approach. Find out who wrote the rules, and who is responsible for their enforcement then start writing letters and asking for interviews. That is called lobbying.

In the case of municipal, county, state or federal laws you can talk to politicians and seek to have the rules changed, but you will need to get the majority of them on your side. 500 letters are better than one, as are some supportive newspaper editorials, or talk shows. Don't say hundreds of people support you because you will be asked to name them.

One of the most efficient ways of changing rules in the US is the annual ballot. Get your cause on the ballot (first battle) then campaign to get people to vote for your cause (second battle). Don't be surprised if you find yourself thousands of dollars out of pocket and a counter motion with thousands of names on it.

Your last recourse is to get yourself elected - or of course move somewhere else.
These are the general principles of social change and should not be construed as either endorsing or denouncing Mike's position


"I HAVE A DREAM" (1963)

[color=purple" face="Arial]Michael[/color]
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 17th, 2004, 11:13 pm

July 17th, 2004, 11:13 pm #8

Actually Mike, I'm surprised you got away with it as much as you did. In the two places in this country where I spent most of my life, Oregon and Texas, it is a written and unwritten law/rule that all places of business have the No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service policy. I think I understand the no shoes part, insurance aganist injury to the customer. In restaurants the no shirt part might be do to health reasons, though I have never really understood why. Maybe they are worried someone will drip persperation or a hair into someones food.

But it has always been this way my whole life (44 years) whether there were signs posted or not. But I think you should keep it up, Mike, if you aren't afraid of being yelled at. Ask them politely if they have a sign stating the policy. But always be polite about it or they might get you arrested for disorderly conduct.
Well I dont think its right that places have this rule if they do not post a sign saying so. They really cannot blame someone for coming in topfree if they do not make a reasonable effort to allow the person to know its against the rules. When these little inconsistancies happen it just makes me not respect the rules anymore because if they will not go to the effort to make sure you know the rule then it must not be that imporant to them and thus they shouldnt be surprised if people break it. Im always polite with such people at these places, I simply feel my rights are being infringed upon because I dont think anybody really has a right to tell me what I can or cant do with my body, especially if its not harmful or offensive to anybody. All I ever wanna do is go about my business and enjoy myself and not bother anybody.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 17th, 2004, 11:13 pm

July 17th, 2004, 11:16 pm #9

Hi Michaela and Mike,

We have the same rules in a lot of places here. You will see the signs up on many businesses. I think that things might be a bit more relaxed in this area, mostly because people look forward to the times when they don't have to wear parkas and Sorels (anyone know what those are??).

It was interesting to hear a man's version of going topfree. I wonder what would happen to a woman in your community. I somehow doubt she would get so far!
Well actually in most of these shirt required places women can actually wear less on top than men, as long as they have something on there, ive even seen women in bikini tops then its ok to alot of these people. Thats what really disgusts me ebcause they have this attitude that men being topfree would either be unsafe or offensive in a public place but somehow a woman wearing just a bikini is safe and not offensive, thats what really upsets me. If she can wear as little as she does then I should be able to go topfree because the only reason she wears something on top is because its usually illegal to expose her breasts, although I think in this state the woman needs to be doing something lewd or sexual while topfree to be considered commiting a crime.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 17th, 2004, 11:13 pm

July 17th, 2004, 11:18 pm #10

uh...lets see...parkas=jacket...sorels=boot??? I know we wouldn't get as far as Mike did before we got yelled at. Now how much you want to bet that the ones who would yell at a woman going topfree would be a woman?
Well actually almost all the people who have questioned my topfreedom ARE women, ive never been told off by a guy! Many of these woman were quite rude and insistant too which really turned me off because it made me feel like I shouldnt respect their rules as much because they were being so rude and immature to me, which im the customer and acting like that could result in bad business for them because it would piss off alot of people and make them seek stores elsewhere.
Quote
Like
Share