This Says It . . For Me

This Says It . . For Me

Bob
Bob

January 30th, 2007, 10:34 pm #1

WOW ....... is this laying it on the line or what?

The lady who wrote this letter is Pam Foster of Pamela Foster and Associates in Atlanta . She's been in business since 1980 doing interior design and home planning. She recently wrote a letter to a family member serving in Iraq ....... Read it!

*************************************************

"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania ?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet?

Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia .

I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurg ling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.

I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and ---- you guessed it - - I don't care ! ! ! ! !"

**************************************************


I LOVE this woman!

Reply
Share

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 30th, 2007, 11:09 pm #2

I think 99% of Americans are all for getting the ‘9/11’ terrorists. The question is- why are we in a war in a country that even Bush now admits had nothing to do with 9/11? I think the Iraq war has been a terrible diversion from our original objective- and has only increased the problem by fostering more hatred for America- making more terrorists and diverting resources from finding the real people who did 9/11- like Bin Laden- who is still at large five and a half years later.
Reply
Like
Share

John Bayko
John Bayko

January 31st, 2007, 2:38 am #3

WOW ....... is this laying it on the line or what?

The lady who wrote this letter is Pam Foster of Pamela Foster and Associates in Atlanta . She's been in business since 1980 doing interior design and home planning. She recently wrote a letter to a family member serving in Iraq ....... Read it!

*************************************************

"Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?

Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan , across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania ?

Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they?

And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet?

Well, I don't. I don't care at all.

I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.

I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia .

I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurg ling slashed throat.

I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.

I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.

I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights.

In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.

When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care.

When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care.

When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.

And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and ---- you guessed it - - I don't care ! ! ! ! !"

**************************************************


I LOVE this woman!
"when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care."

Well this would be the heart of the problem - they're doing those things to non-terrorists. Even completely innocent people. Canadian, German, and Australian citizens have been kidnapped by U.S officials and sent to be tortured - to the point that there are warrents out in Italy for the arrest of several U.S officials.

When the 4th infantry division was deployed, they went through towns in their area and simply rounded up all "fighting age" men and imprisoned them. Insurgent actions in the 4ID's area spiked shortly after (when the innocent prisoners were released, after they got to know very well the insurgent and terrorist recruiters, who were also released because, hey, who could tell the difference?).

The whole invasion and occupation was handled like this. Treating innocents like terrorists. Treating neutrals like enemies. And not caring.

When I hear things like this letter, it makes me think that this is someone who would cut the heads off puppies, then justify it by saying they were a terrorist threat.

You too, it sounds like.
Reply
Share

John Bayko
John Bayko

January 31st, 2007, 1:41 pm #4

"there are warrents out in Italy for the arrest of several U.S officials."

Warrents were also issued in Germany yesterday for the arrest of CIA agents who kidnapped a German citizen and flew him to Afghanistan for five months of torture before releasing him with no charges, explanation, or apology.

Osama bin Laden referred to those killed in the September 11 attacks as criminals. See? It's easy to justify on both sides!
Reply
Share

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 31st, 2007, 1:57 pm #5

Yes, I know we the US have been no angels either. As Rodney King once said- “Can’t we all just get along”?
Reply
Like
Share

Eric UK
Eric UK

January 31st, 2007, 2:54 pm #6

I agree with your sentiments Nat. Some of the stuff Pam Foster says, I can sympathise with, however, the comment "When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care." concerns me greatly.

Today, I read in a national newspaper (Daily Telegraph) that two college students were sent to prison for abusing a freshman during this "hazing" in what amounted to torture.

Obviously, I haven't been to an American college, so have no first hand experience of hazing. My view of it is from newspaper reports such as this and from films. Not the best source to base an opinion on I admit. I understand that various forms of "initiation" ceremony happen in some of the best schools in the UK also. I find any "ceremony" which is based on the abuse and humiliation of another human being abhorrent. Surely, this can only breed bullies. Perhaps in the USA to be successful in business it is a fundamental requirement, as it seems to be a fiercely competitive nation. Perhaps this also explains why we don't do so well over here and US corporations are buying us up.

Sadly, I think that Pam Foster's comments sum up what many people think about Americans - members of this community excepted.
Reply
Share

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 31st, 2007, 3:29 pm #7

Well you know you read about the atrocities that use to go on in the Roman coliseum and throughout history and think we’ve come a long way- but have we really? I think our current veneer of ‘civility’ is very thin- and it seems to be getting even thinner now- especially amoung young people. There have been several cases recently where teens have beat up other teens just to make videos to post on YouTube. And why are the popular video games today so full of violence and gore? What happen to the innocent days of “Pong” and “Packman”?
Reply
Like
Share

Bob
Bob

January 31st, 2007, 3:31 pm #8

I think 99% of Americans are all for getting the ‘9/11’ terrorists. The question is- why are we in a war in a country that even Bush now admits had nothing to do with 9/11? I think the Iraq war has been a terrible diversion from our original objective- and has only increased the problem by fostering more hatred for America- making more terrorists and diverting resources from finding the real people who did 9/11- like Bin Laden- who is still at large five and a half years later.
I supported entering Iraq, when U.S. and British intelligence indicated that Hussein's regime possessed WMD (and back in the late 1990's, the Clinton Admin stated that Saddam was a threat that needed to be dealt with). Also, I had assumed that most Iraqis would jump at the chance to be free of the dictator and enjoy freedom -- that they would grasp the reins and take their country into a womnderful era. I expected the U.S./British involvement would end within a year or two.

Obviously, no WMD were found, and in-fighting amongst groups within Iraq, and the influx of large numbers of foreign fighters and weaponry into the country, resulted in almost daily explosions and killing of innocent Iraqi men, women and children as well as Coalition soldiers. In short, Iraq four years later is a bloody mess. I hear people saying (usually after the fact . . "Monday morning quarterbacks") that they could have, or did, predict what occurred in Iraq. Some I have heard have said that the Iraqi people, perhaps peoples in the entire Middle East area, are incapable of residing peacefully in a democracy, as Western populations have done. I don't surbscribe to this latter view -- I think the average Iraqi is ready and willing to be free, but violence directed against him by insurgents would cause anyone to run for cover and perhaps even wish for a return to the brutality, and relative stability, of the dictatorship.

There are some here who I will not respond to -- been there, done that, and nothing productive comes of the debates. If they wish to think (as they usually do) the worst of American and the American people, so be it. We try, we fail sometimes. But, we try. Our intentions are, I think, usually positive, though the outcomes might be less than intended. At least my country tries to act and prevent negative things from occurring --- unlike other countries that are too weak to do anything or refuse to do anything but sit on the sidelines and criticize those who take action. That is an easy cop-out, but that is your people's/govt's choice. Your "facts" are selectively collected to support your pre-conceived views. I have been down the path of trying to convince otherwise, but its a waste of effort. Besides, as I've said many times, none of us makes policy or calls the shots, so nothing that we post here makes any difference in decisions made/actions taken. I don't sweat it anymore -- hate America if you want.

As for the "Don't Care" message of this woman's letter, the part I most agree with is that I also tire of the comnstant negative reviews and criticisms directed toward American and Americans. We are supposed to sweat every decision and action. Yet, those same people have little to say about the deadly actions of those America is fighting against: The people who explode bombs in public markets, restaurants, at police training centers or just in the streets -- resulting in the murder of innocent Iraqi civilians, children included. Are these people not deserving of the most intense and persistent condemnation? If American forces commit isolated atrocities. some are quick to condemn the entire U.S. military and U.S. govt . . hell, the American people. But, it is NOT U.S. policy to deliberately target civilians, though individual soldiers have done so, and missles sometimes go awry. But, it is the INTENT of insurgents to kill as many innocent Iraqis as possible to try to destabilize the Iraqi govt and (they hope) plunge Iraq into civil war. WHERE is the condemnation of these killers? HEY, THAT'S A BAD TIME TO SHUT THE FUCK UP, EH?

Actually, if the U.S. used the same tactics as the insurgents, we could be very effective. Imagine if we arranged for bombs to go off in the markets and restaurants throughout Tehran and other Iranian cities. This MIGHT (if implemented to the extent and frequency that is seen now in Iraq) serve to destabilize Iran, via the ensuing terror amongst the population . . . and might hamper a bit Iran's support of insurgents into Iraq. Effective, perhaps, but we would not do that -- cause Americans are NOT callous killers of the innocent.

Finally, the actions endorsed by Americans, including military options, result from our observation that appeasement does not work. Dictators don't back down in the face of appeasement. That has been tried and does not work. Though I now wish that U.S. had never entered Iraq, I think the lesson of history should not be forgotten . . . that sometimes free people MUST fight the forces of hate and evil, or we too will succumb to their will. (I won't respond to, or read, responses from a specific poster, but others are welcome to post dissenting opinions).

Reply
Share

Bob
Bob

January 31st, 2007, 3:48 pm #9

I agree with your sentiments Nat. Some of the stuff Pam Foster says, I can sympathise with, however, the comment "When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college-hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care." concerns me greatly.

Today, I read in a national newspaper (Daily Telegraph) that two college students were sent to prison for abusing a freshman during this "hazing" in what amounted to torture.

Obviously, I haven't been to an American college, so have no first hand experience of hazing. My view of it is from newspaper reports such as this and from films. Not the best source to base an opinion on I admit. I understand that various forms of "initiation" ceremony happen in some of the best schools in the UK also. I find any "ceremony" which is based on the abuse and humiliation of another human being abhorrent. Surely, this can only breed bullies. Perhaps in the USA to be successful in business it is a fundamental requirement, as it seems to be a fiercely competitive nation. Perhaps this also explains why we don't do so well over here and US corporations are buying us up.

Sadly, I think that Pam Foster's comments sum up what many people think about Americans - members of this community excepted.
I always note the inconsistency of attentions and consequences given to various negative actions. Some abduction and murder cases receive constant media attention (e.g., JonBenet Ramsey) while there are many similar crimes that receive hardly any mention. Some thieves get the book thrown at them, while some murderers and child molesters walk free in short order. A high-rise condo fire in Chicago that kills 3 people is all over the news here, while the drowning deaths of 100 or more people on a capsized Indonesian ferry get a two-inch square spot on page 24 of the local newspaper.

The events in Iraq and Afghanistan are resported ad nauseum, while the deaths of countless more people in Darfur hardly got coverage until a few prominent celebs drew media attention to it. The alleged "sexual assault" by members of the Duke University lacrosse team was never supported by the facts, yet the team (a favorite to win the US college championship in 2006) was disbanded for a year, and players had difficulty being accepted to other schools due to the shadow hanging over them. Yet, there was a mountain of forensic evidence pointing to O.J. Simpson as the murderer of his ex-wife and her friend, yet he walks free to play golf in Florida (yet was later "guilty enough" to owe money from the civil suit).

What people think of as "signifgicant" or "insignificant" is not consistent with the facts. And, the so-called justice system (at least here in America) depends much more upon the skill of high-paid lawyers rathers than the facts of cases to determine who will be found guilty, who innocent, and what (if any) punishment will be levied. It might be a better system than some, but I think that's not saying much.
Reply
Share

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

January 31st, 2007, 4:21 pm #10

I supported entering Iraq, when U.S. and British intelligence indicated that Hussein's regime possessed WMD (and back in the late 1990's, the Clinton Admin stated that Saddam was a threat that needed to be dealt with). Also, I had assumed that most Iraqis would jump at the chance to be free of the dictator and enjoy freedom -- that they would grasp the reins and take their country into a womnderful era. I expected the U.S./British involvement would end within a year or two.

Obviously, no WMD were found, and in-fighting amongst groups within Iraq, and the influx of large numbers of foreign fighters and weaponry into the country, resulted in almost daily explosions and killing of innocent Iraqi men, women and children as well as Coalition soldiers. In short, Iraq four years later is a bloody mess. I hear people saying (usually after the fact . . "Monday morning quarterbacks") that they could have, or did, predict what occurred in Iraq. Some I have heard have said that the Iraqi people, perhaps peoples in the entire Middle East area, are incapable of residing peacefully in a democracy, as Western populations have done. I don't surbscribe to this latter view -- I think the average Iraqi is ready and willing to be free, but violence directed against him by insurgents would cause anyone to run for cover and perhaps even wish for a return to the brutality, and relative stability, of the dictatorship.

There are some here who I will not respond to -- been there, done that, and nothing productive comes of the debates. If they wish to think (as they usually do) the worst of American and the American people, so be it. We try, we fail sometimes. But, we try. Our intentions are, I think, usually positive, though the outcomes might be less than intended. At least my country tries to act and prevent negative things from occurring --- unlike other countries that are too weak to do anything or refuse to do anything but sit on the sidelines and criticize those who take action. That is an easy cop-out, but that is your people's/govt's choice. Your "facts" are selectively collected to support your pre-conceived views. I have been down the path of trying to convince otherwise, but its a waste of effort. Besides, as I've said many times, none of us makes policy or calls the shots, so nothing that we post here makes any difference in decisions made/actions taken. I don't sweat it anymore -- hate America if you want.

As for the "Don't Care" message of this woman's letter, the part I most agree with is that I also tire of the comnstant negative reviews and criticisms directed toward American and Americans. We are supposed to sweat every decision and action. Yet, those same people have little to say about the deadly actions of those America is fighting against: The people who explode bombs in public markets, restaurants, at police training centers or just in the streets -- resulting in the murder of innocent Iraqi civilians, children included. Are these people not deserving of the most intense and persistent condemnation? If American forces commit isolated atrocities. some are quick to condemn the entire U.S. military and U.S. govt . . hell, the American people. But, it is NOT U.S. policy to deliberately target civilians, though individual soldiers have done so, and missles sometimes go awry. But, it is the INTENT of insurgents to kill as many innocent Iraqis as possible to try to destabilize the Iraqi govt and (they hope) plunge Iraq into civil war. WHERE is the condemnation of these killers? HEY, THAT'S A BAD TIME TO SHUT THE FUCK UP, EH?

Actually, if the U.S. used the same tactics as the insurgents, we could be very effective. Imagine if we arranged for bombs to go off in the markets and restaurants throughout Tehran and other Iranian cities. This MIGHT (if implemented to the extent and frequency that is seen now in Iraq) serve to destabilize Iran, via the ensuing terror amongst the population . . . and might hamper a bit Iran's support of insurgents into Iraq. Effective, perhaps, but we would not do that -- cause Americans are NOT callous killers of the innocent.

Finally, the actions endorsed by Americans, including military options, result from our observation that appeasement does not work. Dictators don't back down in the face of appeasement. That has been tried and does not work. Though I now wish that U.S. had never entered Iraq, I think the lesson of history should not be forgotten . . . that sometimes free people MUST fight the forces of hate and evil, or we too will succumb to their will. (I won't respond to, or read, responses from a specific poster, but others are welcome to post dissenting opinions).
Yes but recall that at the time we invaded Iraq, Saddam was totally contained. We controlled his air-space, his military had been decimated in the 1990-91 war, and UN inspectors were crawling all over Iraq looking for WMD and reporting they could not find any. I see no reason that this status could not have continued as long as necessary- in time it's likely Saddam would be overthrown by internal coup- or perhaps meet with some ‘accident’.

But Bush was hell-bent on going to war- against the advice of many military advisors. And there is no question that he cherry-picked the intelligence- rejecting any that didn’t support his WMD excuse and replacing anyone who disagreed. I think this war will go down in history as the worse foreign policy blunder this country has ever made and the damage to the US’ imagine, credibility, and economy (when we finally start paying off it’s half-trillion dollar cost) is going to take generations to repair.
Reply
Like
Share