Need Some Authentic Advice

Need Some Authentic Advice

John-Paul
John-Paul

December 4th, 2005, 7:09 pm #1

With the indulgent of the form owner and the group. I need some authentic advice on women reaction to story below. And what should we do to make sure it not a sticky situation in the future with my female acquaintances.
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Here the sticky situation

I'm 26 and a college student. I know, I'm a little old for that, but I have really good reasons. I live with another guy, Miguel, who is 27 and has a full time job. We share a two-bedroom apartment and we're both straight, though he has a girlfriend and I currently don't. We have been very good friends for years, and take a lot of stuff for granted about each other, not the least of which is comfortable, casual nudity. Nothing gratuitous, but no hang-ups about modesty, either.

Anyway, Miguel’s parents came for a weeklong visit from New York, and we put them up at our place. He gave up his bedroom and bunked with me. We both sleep naked, and it wasn't anything we even discussed or considered ahead of time. We just slept naked together. His parents didn't mind in the least. In fact, I doubt they even noticed, as he was frequently naked first thing in the morning, and they had no reaction to that whatsoever. I'm sure they're very used to seeing him that way.

So the problem isn't between Miguel and me, or Miguel and his parents. It's his girlfriend. She hit the roof when she found out he was not only sleeping with another man, but sleeping naked with another naked man. She insisted that he spend those nights at her place, but he refused. That would have been very strange for his parents to stay at his apartment with me, while he left every evening to sleep somewhere else. So now she won't speak to me at all. She's insisting they talk this problem through, but Miguel doesn't understand what the problem is, so he's fighting her on it. I guess I should say he's ignoring her on it, because he thinks this is her problem, not his.

I don't know if I'm explaining this very well, so let me know if I should try again. Otherwise, can anyone tell me why his girlfriend is so upset? She's trying to get him to promise not to do this again when his parents come back in a few months, and he won't do that. What are we missing?

John-Paul
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 4th, 2005, 7:51 pm #2

Well, this sounds like something more suited for "Dear Abby" but it would be my guess that with all the gay awareness these days, she is concern that two men sleeping naked together could encourage homosexual interest. I think this is silly myself, but I think some women would consider this as provocative as him sleeping with another woman.

What do the rest of you 'guys' think?
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Anonymous
Anonymous

December 4th, 2005, 9:36 pm #3

With the indulgent of the form owner and the group. I need some authentic advice on women reaction to story below. And what should we do to make sure it not a sticky situation in the future with my female acquaintances.
______________________________________________________________________
************************************************************************
_______________________________________________________________________
Here the sticky situation

I'm 26 and a college student. I know, I'm a little old for that, but I have really good reasons. I live with another guy, Miguel, who is 27 and has a full time job. We share a two-bedroom apartment and we're both straight, though he has a girlfriend and I currently don't. We have been very good friends for years, and take a lot of stuff for granted about each other, not the least of which is comfortable, casual nudity. Nothing gratuitous, but no hang-ups about modesty, either.

Anyway, Miguel’s parents came for a weeklong visit from New York, and we put them up at our place. He gave up his bedroom and bunked with me. We both sleep naked, and it wasn't anything we even discussed or considered ahead of time. We just slept naked together. His parents didn't mind in the least. In fact, I doubt they even noticed, as he was frequently naked first thing in the morning, and they had no reaction to that whatsoever. I'm sure they're very used to seeing him that way.

So the problem isn't between Miguel and me, or Miguel and his parents. It's his girlfriend. She hit the roof when she found out he was not only sleeping with another man, but sleeping naked with another naked man. She insisted that he spend those nights at her place, but he refused. That would have been very strange for his parents to stay at his apartment with me, while he left every evening to sleep somewhere else. So now she won't speak to me at all. She's insisting they talk this problem through, but Miguel doesn't understand what the problem is, so he's fighting her on it. I guess I should say he's ignoring her on it, because he thinks this is her problem, not his.

I don't know if I'm explaining this very well, so let me know if I should try again. Otherwise, can anyone tell me why his girlfriend is so upset? She's trying to get him to promise not to do this again when his parents come back in a few months, and he won't do that. What are we missing?

John-Paul
Two guys --- sleeping together, naked --- the girlfriend of one says, "Sleep with me instead" ---- him refusing (W-w-w-WHAT??!! . . !!!!!!) --- saying (I suppose), "My parents are staying with us and I'm going to sleep, naked, with my male rooomate".

Maybe I'm just too heterosexual for this question (no apology) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ?? . . . . . . !! . . . . . . Dude . . . . .

Why is your hetero buddy choosing to sleep "commando" with his male roommate . . . . . when his girlfriend is wondering why . . . . . . and she would gladly lay him out like a bowling pin following a "strike" . . . and he could tell his parents, "I'm sleeping on the couch with cloth over my buttocks" . .or "I'm going to stay the night at Ashley's place . . . you and Jonathon will be fine" . . . . . ??? . . . . what is the issue?

Game plan: 1) Roomie sleeps butt-covered on your couch during the short time his parents are in town. 2) Or, Roomie sleeps on the couch at gf's place (if you all have moral issues). 3) Or . . (my choice) . . after spending the day and night with the folks . . get laid in all their favorite ways at gf's place . . . screw early and often and surprise everyone with take-out from Bob Evans. Feed the parents and they'll be satisfied! WHAT is the problem??
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 4th, 2005, 9:59 pm #4

OK let's annalize this- if they have a bed which can comfortably sleep two people, you would instead have one sleep uncomfortably on a couch? Do you object that they sleep nude, as many guys do? Do you think it is impossible for two hetero guys to share a bed without something sexual happening?

It may well be that the parents would think it is more acceptable for two men to share a bed than a unwed man and woman to do so.
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Bob
Bob

December 4th, 2005, 10:29 pm #5

W@hat if the two people involved were a man and his niece. If both were to sleep together in a bed . . and anyone had objections . . . would those concerned be "perverted" for objecting? It could be innocent . . . if you think there is a reasonable objection, why? Can't two adults sleep together in the same bed? If there are concerns about the propriety of that . . . shame on you!!

Now, what if that were an uncle and neice . . . or uncle and nephew . . . or grandfather and grandson/daughter . . could they clothed or be naked? Any problem with either? If so, why? Is it because of gender? Is it worse because one person is male and another is female? Why? Is it worse because of the age difference? Would it be OK if an uncle slept with his ADULT niece, but not otherwise? Would sex with an adult niece be OK? How about if the uncle slept with a nephew? Would age, or gender, make a difference? Would clothes (or the absence thereof) make a difference? Why?

Throw up the smokescreens . . . I throw up the questions. Think about it, bacon-bits.
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 4th, 2005, 10:57 pm #6

The basis of morality is rather someone is hurt by an act. Society has long had a taboo against unwed people of mixed gender sleeping together because of the temptation of intercourse which might produce a illegitimate child- who would be the innocent victim of this act.

Now I can remember back before "gay" became a household word that homosexuality was considered a rare aberration. It was considered so rare in fact that people scarely thought about it. No one objected to two males sharing a bed or even a sleeping bag. In fact, when I was 8 years old in 1954 I learned to swim with 20 other naked boys at the local YMCA. Later we boys swam nude in the lake at summer camp. "Skinny dipping" is a tradition that goes back centuries even in our prudish country. No one thought there was anything perverse about people of the same gender being naked together. Even in late '60s, many guys in my college dorm slept nude and thought nothing of walking nude to the shower or bathroom. So why now has it now become such a taboo thing for two guys to be nude together or sleep together in a bed? (and when I say "sleep"- I do mean sleep).
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John Bayko
John Bayko

December 4th, 2005, 11:24 pm #7

With the indulgent of the form owner and the group. I need some authentic advice on women reaction to story below. And what should we do to make sure it not a sticky situation in the future with my female acquaintances.
______________________________________________________________________
************************************************************************
_______________________________________________________________________
Here the sticky situation

I'm 26 and a college student. I know, I'm a little old for that, but I have really good reasons. I live with another guy, Miguel, who is 27 and has a full time job. We share a two-bedroom apartment and we're both straight, though he has a girlfriend and I currently don't. We have been very good friends for years, and take a lot of stuff for granted about each other, not the least of which is comfortable, casual nudity. Nothing gratuitous, but no hang-ups about modesty, either.

Anyway, Miguel’s parents came for a weeklong visit from New York, and we put them up at our place. He gave up his bedroom and bunked with me. We both sleep naked, and it wasn't anything we even discussed or considered ahead of time. We just slept naked together. His parents didn't mind in the least. In fact, I doubt they even noticed, as he was frequently naked first thing in the morning, and they had no reaction to that whatsoever. I'm sure they're very used to seeing him that way.

So the problem isn't between Miguel and me, or Miguel and his parents. It's his girlfriend. She hit the roof when she found out he was not only sleeping with another man, but sleeping naked with another naked man. She insisted that he spend those nights at her place, but he refused. That would have been very strange for his parents to stay at his apartment with me, while he left every evening to sleep somewhere else. So now she won't speak to me at all. She's insisting they talk this problem through, but Miguel doesn't understand what the problem is, so he's fighting her on it. I guess I should say he's ignoring her on it, because he thinks this is her problem, not his.

I don't know if I'm explaining this very well, so let me know if I should try again. Otherwise, can anyone tell me why his girlfriend is so upset? She's trying to get him to promise not to do this again when his parents come back in a few months, and he won't do that. What are we missing?

John-Paul
Sounds like too many people not knowing what's going on in other minds. In particular, your friend's girfriend is wondering something, but not telling you two what that thing is.

Maybe she'd embarassed to raise the thought, or maybe she's more concerned about how either of you will react to is - afraid of being ridiculed for something that she thinks is serious and important.

Maybe she just thinks the idea of two men naked together is just gross, even when no sex is involved.

You and your roomate need to reassure her that she can say what she thinks without being ridiculed or dismissed. If you can't understand why something she says should matter, don't say it doesn't matter, but try breaking it down (like, what part of that does she think is important), or see if maybe that thing is important because it implies something else that is important.

Basically, talking about it is the only way to figure out what the real problems are. Maybe it has nothing to do with you two, bed, and nudity, and more that she feels she's being dismissed as if none of her thoughts are important to her boyfriend - not even listened to. Or maybe it's a self-esteem thing, that she is feeling rejected by him not wanting to stay with her when there's a perfectly good reason to (does this mean their relationship has no future?).

This is the type of thing that counselors help with - how to get to what's really bothering people. But I don't know if you want to go that far. These are just some thoughts about what to look at.
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Melissa
Melissa

December 4th, 2005, 11:33 pm #8

The basis of morality is rather someone is hurt by an act. Society has long had a taboo against unwed people of mixed gender sleeping together because of the temptation of intercourse which might produce a illegitimate child- who would be the innocent victim of this act.

Now I can remember back before "gay" became a household word that homosexuality was considered a rare aberration. It was considered so rare in fact that people scarely thought about it. No one objected to two males sharing a bed or even a sleeping bag. In fact, when I was 8 years old in 1954 I learned to swim with 20 other naked boys at the local YMCA. Later we boys swam nude in the lake at summer camp. "Skinny dipping" is a tradition that goes back centuries even in our prudish country. No one thought there was anything perverse about people of the same gender being naked together. Even in late '60s, many guys in my college dorm slept nude and thought nothing of walking nude to the shower or bathroom. So why now has it now become such a taboo thing for two guys to be nude together or sleep together in a bed? (and when I say "sleep"- I do mean sleep).
I have a friend who lives in a one bed room apt and for a few months her 17 year old sister got kicked out of the folks' house and moved in with her big sis. Since it's a one bed room they slept together in the same bed, often nude because that's how they always sleep and didn't think anything of it with family. The only people who said anything weird about it were some of the guys at work when they found out. They acted like guys do (read: immature) and said that it was hot and asking if anything happened. That was dumb but no one said it was inapproprate though.
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 5th, 2005, 12:06 am #9

Well it's a shame that there is so much immaturity about sex and nudity now, Melissa. I see absolutely nothing wrong with two girls sharing a bed. And a generation or so ago no one else would have. But now a days it seems people have to assume there is something unseemly about everything.
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Bob
Bob

December 5th, 2005, 12:15 am #10

Sounds like too many people not knowing what's going on in other minds. In particular, your friend's girfriend is wondering something, but not telling you two what that thing is.

Maybe she'd embarassed to raise the thought, or maybe she's more concerned about how either of you will react to is - afraid of being ridiculed for something that she thinks is serious and important.

Maybe she just thinks the idea of two men naked together is just gross, even when no sex is involved.

You and your roomate need to reassure her that she can say what she thinks without being ridiculed or dismissed. If you can't understand why something she says should matter, don't say it doesn't matter, but try breaking it down (like, what part of that does she think is important), or see if maybe that thing is important because it implies something else that is important.

Basically, talking about it is the only way to figure out what the real problems are. Maybe it has nothing to do with you two, bed, and nudity, and more that she feels she's being dismissed as if none of her thoughts are important to her boyfriend - not even listened to. Or maybe it's a self-esteem thing, that she is feeling rejected by him not wanting to stay with her when there's a perfectly good reason to (does this mean their relationship has no future?).

This is the type of thing that counselors help with - how to get to what's really bothering people. But I don't know if you want to go that far. These are just some thoughts about what to look at.
It doesn't take a doctorate to understand that the girlfriend's concern is that her boyfriend is CHOOSING to sleep naked with another man. Why is that a concern? Well -- DUH? -- do I have to spell it out for you, Baco? There are homosexual men out there who date girls . . . and this girl doesn't want to be the last to know. She is offering for him to sleep with her instead. What straight guy doesn't choose a night with an "innie" over a night with an "outie"? I don't know why that is so hard to figure out. For you, maybe, but not most people.

The only clear part, to me, is WHY you ask such innane questions. By questioning "what this means" and "why that concern", the implication is that the questions and concerns must be (WHY???) illogical or reflective of pathological thinking. I've seen the game before -- screw you, John. It is YOU who are irrational or just stupid for asking the questions. 95% of the populace knows the answers without asking. Catch up!

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