Is it men or women?

Is it men or women?

John Bayko
John Bayko

September 11th, 2005, 10:03 pm #1

Here's an opinion piece that looks at how women view other women's breasts:

http://www.amazoncastle.com/feminism/busty.shtml

Do you think she's right, and women are more to blame for the concept of the "ideal breasts"?

And is it more themselves, or other women? Here's a view that thinks it's more about women wanting to look good for other women:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/fem ... mage/85911

Interesting thought in that one - that teenage girls are not just comparing themselves to other women, but to the boy-band crushes they first fall for. The hot high-school boys are always skinnier than girls, and they're what the girls think of as really attractive. Do teenage girls who want to be attractive also want to resemble boys at the same time (albeit with breasts and much better hair to show off)?

And if so, does this desire form the basis for the rest of their lives, despite the fact that women find appearance less important in men (body appearance, that is - clothing and style still rate high, or even higher) as they grow older?

In a world without men (ignoring all sex issues for the moment), would all women be "fat and happy" has has been suggested? Would this be because there would be no thin men as objects of desire? Or would women still want to show off for each other, and still compete to be less flabby and more beautiful than the others?
Quote
Share

JB
JB

September 11th, 2005, 11:58 pm #2

It does seem to me that women notice breasts more than men do.
Quote
Share

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 12th, 2005, 12:45 am #3

Here's an opinion piece that looks at how women view other women's breasts:

http://www.amazoncastle.com/feminism/busty.shtml

Do you think she's right, and women are more to blame for the concept of the "ideal breasts"?

And is it more themselves, or other women? Here's a view that thinks it's more about women wanting to look good for other women:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/fem ... mage/85911

Interesting thought in that one - that teenage girls are not just comparing themselves to other women, but to the boy-band crushes they first fall for. The hot high-school boys are always skinnier than girls, and they're what the girls think of as really attractive. Do teenage girls who want to be attractive also want to resemble boys at the same time (albeit with breasts and much better hair to show off)?

And if so, does this desire form the basis for the rest of their lives, despite the fact that women find appearance less important in men (body appearance, that is - clothing and style still rate high, or even higher) as they grow older?

In a world without men (ignoring all sex issues for the moment), would all women be "fat and happy" has has been suggested? Would this be because there would be no thin men as objects of desire? Or would women still want to show off for each other, and still compete to be less flabby and more beautiful than the others?
I have always heard that women dress to impress other women rather than men.
Quote
Like
Share

Melissa
Melissa

September 12th, 2005, 3:25 am #4

Here's an opinion piece that looks at how women view other women's breasts:

http://www.amazoncastle.com/feminism/busty.shtml

Do you think she's right, and women are more to blame for the concept of the "ideal breasts"?

And is it more themselves, or other women? Here's a view that thinks it's more about women wanting to look good for other women:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/fem ... mage/85911

Interesting thought in that one - that teenage girls are not just comparing themselves to other women, but to the boy-band crushes they first fall for. The hot high-school boys are always skinnier than girls, and they're what the girls think of as really attractive. Do teenage girls who want to be attractive also want to resemble boys at the same time (albeit with breasts and much better hair to show off)?

And if so, does this desire form the basis for the rest of their lives, despite the fact that women find appearance less important in men (body appearance, that is - clothing and style still rate high, or even higher) as they grow older?

In a world without men (ignoring all sex issues for the moment), would all women be "fat and happy" has has been suggested? Would this be because there would be no thin men as objects of desire? Or would women still want to show off for each other, and still compete to be less flabby and more beautiful than the others?
Makes sense to me. I'm barely an A cup who rarely wears a bra and guys still love my little breasts. When we all hang out and drink guys ask me to flash my breasts. I even had some friends who tried to get me to enter a wet T-shirt contest. The ones who I hear comment from and get bad looks from for not wearing a bra or having small breasts are other girls mostly. Guys are plenty shallow and sexist when they talk but when it comes down to it they will take and girl who is interested in them.
Quote
Share

Joined: September 20th, 2003, 4:27 pm

September 12th, 2005, 3:51 pm #5

Here's an opinion piece that looks at how women view other women's breasts:

http://www.amazoncastle.com/feminism/busty.shtml

Do you think she's right, and women are more to blame for the concept of the "ideal breasts"?

And is it more themselves, or other women? Here's a view that thinks it's more about women wanting to look good for other women:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/fem ... mage/85911

Interesting thought in that one - that teenage girls are not just comparing themselves to other women, but to the boy-band crushes they first fall for. The hot high-school boys are always skinnier than girls, and they're what the girls think of as really attractive. Do teenage girls who want to be attractive also want to resemble boys at the same time (albeit with breasts and much better hair to show off)?

And if so, does this desire form the basis for the rest of their lives, despite the fact that women find appearance less important in men (body appearance, that is - clothing and style still rate high, or even higher) as they grow older?

In a world without men (ignoring all sex issues for the moment), would all women be "fat and happy" has has been suggested? Would this be because there would be no thin men as objects of desire? Or would women still want to show off for each other, and still compete to be less flabby and more beautiful than the others?
But that's just me. I say it is just me because I don't know what other women think about it. But my community of women don't ever seem to mention anything about breasts or bras and don't appear to have much of an interest in emphasizing their breasts. It is a non issue.

As for who I dress for, it is me. I dress in clothes that I like and that I think look good on me. I don't ever, and have never thought what would the guys think or what would the gals think of this dress. I can't ever remember thinking about what anyone but myself thought about the clothes I wear.

But I do have a question for Melissa. Where do you hang out? What kind of guys do you hang out with? This is not the first time I have read you talking about flashing. This is an interesting thing to me simply because in all my years on the planet I have never been near any guys who would ask the women in the room, myself or any other, to flash their breasts. I have been in many different kinds of venues too. I just have never seen men behave that way.
Quote
Like
Share

Boreas
Boreas

September 12th, 2005, 5:25 pm #6

Michaela I travel in similar circles as you. I have been thinking about this question and have been trying to think of a response. I certainly do ot feel criticized by my female peers generally. At least not about my dress or whatever.

I think that women can be more critical of other women then men can in general. I also am inclined to think that is in a certain segment of the population. If you are more interested in fashion or outward appearances, chance are, you travel in circles where other women feel the same. In those types of groups women seem to be more critical of each other.

I have been watching Big Brother 6 this summer and have been astounded by the cattiness among the women there. Now I do know that is not a representative sample of female society! There is a group of women that is awful to the "outsiders" behind their backs and they are friendly (at times) in front of them. That does happen outside the Big Brother house unfortunately. Two women were talking about their "boob jobs" and were poking each other and such. It seemed similar to the body building men who are only interested in themselves and others like them. Women are not as generally interested in those men as the men would believe. I suspect similar could be said about the fake "boobs".

I could be wrong.
Quote
Share

Nat
Nat

September 12th, 2005, 5:50 pm #7

That was sure my observation with my teenage girls. I heard a awful lot of talk about who was wearing what. And there was great importance given to 'brandnames" as if girls who wore K-Mart or Wal-Mart clothes were second class citizens.

Many schools around here are going to uniforms and a major reason given is that it removes the 'clothes competition' among students which has become a problem as more immigrant children enter the school system.
Quote
Share

Joined: September 20th, 2003, 4:27 pm

September 12th, 2005, 6:12 pm #8

Class has everything to do with it. In fact, the girls who buy there clothes at wal-mart or k-mart are of a lower class, and those girls who buy their clothes at the department stores and mall love to make sure everyone knows that.

School uniforms are no solution to the problem. Why? Shoes and sweaters are still used as class status symbols. The problem continues even in school uniforms.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 20th, 2003, 4:27 pm

September 12th, 2005, 6:19 pm #9

Michaela I travel in similar circles as you. I have been thinking about this question and have been trying to think of a response. I certainly do ot feel criticized by my female peers generally. At least not about my dress or whatever.

I think that women can be more critical of other women then men can in general. I also am inclined to think that is in a certain segment of the population. If you are more interested in fashion or outward appearances, chance are, you travel in circles where other women feel the same. In those types of groups women seem to be more critical of each other.

I have been watching Big Brother 6 this summer and have been astounded by the cattiness among the women there. Now I do know that is not a representative sample of female society! There is a group of women that is awful to the "outsiders" behind their backs and they are friendly (at times) in front of them. That does happen outside the Big Brother house unfortunately. Two women were talking about their "boob jobs" and were poking each other and such. It seemed similar to the body building men who are only interested in themselves and others like them. Women are not as generally interested in those men as the men would believe. I suspect similar could be said about the fake "boobs".

I could be wrong.
It is true that you have to choose what kind of people you want to be around, what their interests are, if you don't want to have to experience that boob poking mentality. I always do wonder about those guys and gals that are body built. How much time do they spend looking at themselves in the mirror? That is why I traded the gym for bikes. The air is fresher and NO MIRRORS! I would rather not spend too much time looking in mirrors or hanging around with people who do.

I am fortunate to have people in my world who are not obsessed, a word that was used in the two articles John linked us to, but are balanced in whatever their interests or hobbies are. I haven't noticed any undue obsessions.
Quote
Like
Share

Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

September 12th, 2005, 6:46 pm #10

I agree. That was one of the things I liked about the 1960s- there wasn't the obsession with clothes and bodies that there is now. Young people were content with a T-shirt and old pair of jeans. Austerity was the style right down to the little VW beetles they drove. Quite a change from the "my SUV is bigger than your SUV" days of today.
Quote
Like
Share