Equality

Equality

Pat
Pat

October 5th, 2002, 5:43 am #1

Many people on this forum have stated that "women should be able to be topfree wherever men can be topfree." I'd say that the overriding issue of this forum is one of equality. Probably most of us want to have topfree gender equality as a long-term goal. Gender equality is just as morally valid as racial equality. Some people who were quick to condemn South African apartheid are today quick to make excuses for gender apartheid in other countries. Sure, one can say "it's their culture" but we could have said the same thing about apartheid S. Africa. Gender equality is not a matter of being equal physically, it is a matter of having legal equality, and that is still just a dream in most nations of the world. Many nations still don't allow women to even vote, and women do not have topfree equality in the USA.
Back to breast freedom, our main concerns (and differences) are probably that of what is the best strategy of obtaining the long-term goals of bra- and breast-freedom. Some posters have voiced an uncompromising support for topfree equality in all instances, while others have voiced equally sensible concerns about what is productive and what is counterproductive. Both are valid, and they differ mostly in their time-frame. I'd love to see immediate equality. Since that is unlikely, even in the USA (some Europeans might say especially in the USA), given the power of fundamentalist elements, one can rationally look towards what is pragmatic. One could argue that a very effective (and totally legal) first step is bra freedom. Let us stop the name-calling a moment and rejoice in what most of us have in common, a wish for more equality. When answering posts, keep in mind that the radical right would LOVE to see us fragmented and disorganized and ineffective.
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D.K.
D.K.

October 5th, 2002, 6:35 am #2

First, let me say that I'm oppose to discrimination of any type for anyone anywhere. That would certainly include those you mentioned above.

Your gradualism approach seems sensible at first, but I think back to the fact that blacks and gays got no-where until they began confrontational 'in-your-face' tactics. A lot of people didn't like it but it worked, and both these groups are far better off today as a result.

I'm not saying that we should start marching down the middle of town bare-breasted, but we are going to get no-where until we start exercising our rights in places where being topfree is logical and appropriate.
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Jodi
Jodi

October 5th, 2002, 1:11 pm #3

This is just the message that I have been trying to get across here for a long time but there is always someone that turns it into an attempt to expose yourself for someones sexual pleasure.

Again, without those brave women to set the examples this effort is a waste of time. Using discression as to the right time and place is important but there has to be examples set. If nobody ever see's it they won't believe it.
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Eefje
Eefje

October 5th, 2002, 4:59 pm #4

Many people on this forum have stated that "women should be able to be topfree wherever men can be topfree." I'd say that the overriding issue of this forum is one of equality. Probably most of us want to have topfree gender equality as a long-term goal. Gender equality is just as morally valid as racial equality. Some people who were quick to condemn South African apartheid are today quick to make excuses for gender apartheid in other countries. Sure, one can say "it's their culture" but we could have said the same thing about apartheid S. Africa. Gender equality is not a matter of being equal physically, it is a matter of having legal equality, and that is still just a dream in most nations of the world. Many nations still don't allow women to even vote, and women do not have topfree equality in the USA.
Back to breast freedom, our main concerns (and differences) are probably that of what is the best strategy of obtaining the long-term goals of bra- and breast-freedom. Some posters have voiced an uncompromising support for topfree equality in all instances, while others have voiced equally sensible concerns about what is productive and what is counterproductive. Both are valid, and they differ mostly in their time-frame. I'd love to see immediate equality. Since that is unlikely, even in the USA (some Europeans might say especially in the USA), given the power of fundamentalist elements, one can rationally look towards what is pragmatic. One could argue that a very effective (and totally legal) first step is bra freedom. Let us stop the name-calling a moment and rejoice in what most of us have in common, a wish for more equality. When answering posts, keep in mind that the radical right would LOVE to see us fragmented and disorganized and ineffective.
Finally another sensible member. Wellcome. Hope we get more of them. Don't shy away because of all the comments and attacks you get. That's normal here.
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Eefje
Eefje

October 5th, 2002, 5:02 pm #5

This is just the message that I have been trying to get across here for a long time but there is always someone that turns it into an attempt to expose yourself for someones sexual pleasure.

Again, without those brave women to set the examples this effort is a waste of time. Using discression as to the right time and place is important but there has to be examples set. If nobody ever see's it they won't believe it.
Only the people who defend the right of women to go topless in public everywhere without any respect for others, religion or the law, or without thinking of the dangerous consequenses, or the degrading of women, or the damage it will bring to women accepted as serious independent human beings, thank each other. Strange isn't it? Better show solidarity to your fellow women and decency and respect to the world around you.
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newbie
newbie

October 5th, 2002, 10:09 pm #6

AMEN! Militant tactics only work in warfare not in everyday life.
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D.K.
D.K.

October 5th, 2002, 10:43 pm #7

Tell that to the blacks who marched and protested and staged sit-ins and demonstrations in the 1960s and to the gays who did the same in the 1970s. These groups accomplished more to end discrimination in a couple years of militant actions than they had accomplished in all the decades before. History shows this is the only way things really change.
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newbie
newbie

October 6th, 2002, 12:38 am #8

Once again you are comparing apples and oranges. The racial issue and partial nudity issue are two totally different things.
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D.K.
D.K.

October 6th, 2002, 3:59 am #9

It is not different at all! Anytime one person is treated differently than another it is discrimination- plain and simple. It doesn't matter if it's race, sex or religion, it is wrong!
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Anonymous
Anonymous

October 6th, 2002, 4:12 am #10

You want equality... so men should wear skirts now and pantyhose? Boys should join girl scouts?(sorry I find this ridiculous) Personally, braless is enough freedom for me and who needs to go around with boobs flapping in the breeze. I wouldnt want the attention and that is what this is all about ... attention.
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