Dumb Rules

Dumb Rules

Mike
Mike

January 2nd, 2003, 3:37 am #1

Hey, I know how much yall love my posts so I thought id send another one so 1 id have somethin to do and 2 so I can see what you people think about this.

Well then I have noticed like 2 or 3 things which I think have actually been circulating for some time now, anyways ill list them here and let u decide why they do it and what can be done about it cuz im stumped and I just think these things r so pathetic.

1. Okay this is the first no brainer thing i've seen especially around here. Well I think everyone knows about the no shoes, no shirt, no service signs on alot of stores these days and I just have a couple of questions about those is how can these places legally do this and why would they wanna do something so stupid. Now I myself do not think these places should worry about toplessness by either men or women because most ppl going into these places r jus tryin to be comfortable and jus wanna buy food or what not and I dont think ppl should have to have a different attire every time they go in someplace * I can understand with big restaurants, but even there I question it* but most of these places ppl wanna go in and grab something fast and I dont think that ppl who r walkin out on the street really want to wastew time pullin some shirt over their head when they could just walk in, buy whatever they want and walk out and not be bothering a soul and I feel that unless someone is bothered by it then they should let ppl go in like that and the store should accept it because hey these people are their customers and shouldnt the store want the customers to be comfortable in their store, so shouldnt they allow these people to wear what they want in there, I mean it's just stupid and I know most of these stores have ac and personally I think they use that as an excuse to say why people dont have to go in there like that on a hot day but honestly I think that would feel pretty damn good all over if I was hot and walked in topfree to some fast food joint or grocery store *the grocery store near me doesnt care about topless guys tho luckly* and I just dont see the problem with it, I think it would be great and I dont think what manyt people on here do that it should be restricted to beaches and pools and special places because then isnt that restricting our freedoms, if it's free it should be free everywhere and I think people should have the decent common sense to decide where it's appropriate and where it's not because some ppl would think some places are innappropriate and some wouldnt so it's a no win battle and it doesnt teach nuthin either, I think people should be comfortable whereever they go and just use a little common sense, but if they feel they can go into a place topless and that it's appropriate for them then they should do it and if someone asks them to cover up then they should respect them and do it but no one should tell them to and if they dont then that should be their choice because everyone would have that choice and that feeling and no one could question anyone else because nobody would be infringing on anyones rights. Id also love to see how they could get someone for walking into a store with shoes and a shirt, but no pants!m especially if the pants section ofd them was covered by a shirt cuz theres no pants logo on the sign just no shirt, no shoes!

2. Ok here's another thing, I heard there was some goofball law some places that does not allow undressing or dressing in public or in public facilities like bathrooms, but yet they allow men to be topless in public, now how would someone do this, because unless you are at your house when u take off ur shirt or someplace private like a bathroom stall *heck I think they consider the stalls public too, even tho ur supposed to have privacy in there and u can sue if anyone is spying on u there* so how exactly can guys be topless and not infringe on this law, are they supposed to run all the way home when it's hot just to rip off their shirts and then run back to whereever it is they were and I mean like on beacjes they say it's illegal to change in the bathrooms, but if ppl cant sdo that, how the hell do they put their swimsuits on and what do they do when they're done do they just wear the wet swimsuits all the way home and id also love to know how the police are supposed to inforce the law of no changing in restrooms when they cant look in the stalls and theres no way to install cameras without someone suining so id really love someone to explain this.

3. Also at pools, little girls parents are getting in trouble for letting their girls go into pools topless, now I know I havent seen it myself and it does happen rarely but it does still happen, but little girls *under 10* get in trouble for being topless now I have two questions on that, 1 how is a pool lifeguard able to infringe on a right that the child has in the lawbooks I mean I think almost all places kids can go topless *female* until a certain age usually 7 to 10 and yet these guys say they cant do it and most parents put them in lil bikinis anyways and make the topless ones look stupid cuz they're the only topless girls in the pool and also the girls that do have tops r usually just lil bikinis and now I really dont get why someone would go nuts over seeing some little girl's exposed nipple when everything else is exposed and I mean cmon little girls bikini tops fall off in pools all the time jus like lil boys swimtrunks fall off sometimes so it all boils down to what is the point?, I mean why waste people's time for one buying a kid a freakin swimsuit which most places the prices are just crazy and then putting it on them and having it cover like 1 or 2 percent of their whole body mass and then having a lifeguard scare the shit out of a little kid for not having one on and not convering that dreadful little nipple and possibly making the kid feel she did something wrong and have that kid feel that way for the rest of her life, it's just insane and also the places that do allow topfreedom for little girls up to 10, some girls get breasts by then and most of the time are told to cover up even though they still have legality under the law and I wonder why they get crimilized and flat chested 10 yr olds dont for the same thing and then it really boils down to where do u draw the line on this and then if it doesnt matter if someone sees a mature breast on a 10 yr old, which i've seen some 10 yr olds have then why is it bad to see a mature one on a teenager or adult, cuz it's the same damn thing and I just wonder why they even bother.

Okay that's basically what I wanted to say, I hope u enjoyed it and respond soon.
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Melissa
Melissa

January 2nd, 2003, 7:11 pm #2

The business can do that becase business owners can make any rule they want so long as it is applied evenly (for everything but gender since equel rights for genders are still not on the books in most places) This means if a place (probably a high class resturant) wants to say that no one wearing jeans can get in they can enforce it (if they said a white person wearing jeans can get in but a black person in them could not they would be in trouble) Personaly I don't have a problem with such rules since I think that a property owner should have the right to decide what does and does not happen on the property and the since the rule applies to men as well it is equel treatment. In fact the shirt rule was written for guys. If a woman can in without a shirt they could have her arrested in most places, which brings me to your question about what about no pants.....

Even though the store is a private business as someplace that is opened to the public it has to follow certan rules, the same as any other public place. Someone could be arrested for incecent exposure inside of the store as easily as they could for anything they could be arrested for on the sidewalk. Recently I saw such a thing in action when some guys from work took me to a bikini contest at a new bar/club that opened near by. We were talking to one of the girls who was in the contest and she told us she wanted to flash her boobs but the guy in charage made it perfectly clear that they would eject her if she did so. The reason is because their are not many such clubs in cobb county, which is a very conservative county (home of Newt Gingrich's old district) and they are worried that if the cops find out girls are flashing boobs in the club they could pull their liquor licence and fine them for allowing "indecent" acts to go on. Keep in mind that you have to be 21 to get into this club. In dance clubs in Atlanta the same rules are supposed to apply but since they make so much tax money off those clubs such things are overlooked by the police, which means the people who run the clubs overlook and even encourage such activity, take it from someone who had a guy friend take a body shot off my bare chest a few months ago in one of these clubs.

When it comes to clubs that restrict access (like a nudist resort) they can do what they want because they allow in only who they choose to. Other private clubs include swingers clubs, which are classified as private clubs and I'm told have patrons having sex in the middle of the room while others watch.
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Mike
Mike

January 3rd, 2003, 2:00 am #3

I think alot of this stuff is just a lot of conservative bull cuz like 3 to 5 years ago right around here guys and even some girls would wear little or nothing on top or otherwise and almost noone cared and they did it almost everywhere and now im always hearing about all these signs and stuff everywhere and all this other stuff about how everyone is worried about looks n other stuff and almost no one does that stuff, even in the summer when almost everyone did it, now they almost never do it and alot of my friends would think im nuts, the only ones who really agree with me are the ones who live really far away and that's jus sad but anyways yea all the stores either dont let anyone go in topless or jus no one does and anyone who does would prob feel like a fool cuz they're the only person doin it, it has to get to be like 100 degrees or so outside before anyone will and I see all these ridiculous people wearing these god awful tops that are black and big and baggy when it's super hot outside and im like what the heck are they wearin that for and it seems to me like ppl care more about their looks than their comfort and health and it just goes to show u how conservative this society is and how degraded we are and how the shrub has really messed with all our heads, I mean I used to support the guy before I knew about topfredom and stuff but now I really dont support him cuz I hear about all this conservative views he has, so yea it's jus sad.
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Whitney
Whitney

January 5th, 2003, 9:17 pm #4

Hey, I know how much yall love my posts so I thought id send another one so 1 id have somethin to do and 2 so I can see what you people think about this.

Well then I have noticed like 2 or 3 things which I think have actually been circulating for some time now, anyways ill list them here and let u decide why they do it and what can be done about it cuz im stumped and I just think these things r so pathetic.

1. Okay this is the first no brainer thing i've seen especially around here. Well I think everyone knows about the no shoes, no shirt, no service signs on alot of stores these days and I just have a couple of questions about those is how can these places legally do this and why would they wanna do something so stupid. Now I myself do not think these places should worry about toplessness by either men or women because most ppl going into these places r jus tryin to be comfortable and jus wanna buy food or what not and I dont think ppl should have to have a different attire every time they go in someplace * I can understand with big restaurants, but even there I question it* but most of these places ppl wanna go in and grab something fast and I dont think that ppl who r walkin out on the street really want to wastew time pullin some shirt over their head when they could just walk in, buy whatever they want and walk out and not be bothering a soul and I feel that unless someone is bothered by it then they should let ppl go in like that and the store should accept it because hey these people are their customers and shouldnt the store want the customers to be comfortable in their store, so shouldnt they allow these people to wear what they want in there, I mean it's just stupid and I know most of these stores have ac and personally I think they use that as an excuse to say why people dont have to go in there like that on a hot day but honestly I think that would feel pretty damn good all over if I was hot and walked in topfree to some fast food joint or grocery store *the grocery store near me doesnt care about topless guys tho luckly* and I just dont see the problem with it, I think it would be great and I dont think what manyt people on here do that it should be restricted to beaches and pools and special places because then isnt that restricting our freedoms, if it's free it should be free everywhere and I think people should have the decent common sense to decide where it's appropriate and where it's not because some ppl would think some places are innappropriate and some wouldnt so it's a no win battle and it doesnt teach nuthin either, I think people should be comfortable whereever they go and just use a little common sense, but if they feel they can go into a place topless and that it's appropriate for them then they should do it and if someone asks them to cover up then they should respect them and do it but no one should tell them to and if they dont then that should be their choice because everyone would have that choice and that feeling and no one could question anyone else because nobody would be infringing on anyones rights. Id also love to see how they could get someone for walking into a store with shoes and a shirt, but no pants!m especially if the pants section ofd them was covered by a shirt cuz theres no pants logo on the sign just no shirt, no shoes!

2. Ok here's another thing, I heard there was some goofball law some places that does not allow undressing or dressing in public or in public facilities like bathrooms, but yet they allow men to be topless in public, now how would someone do this, because unless you are at your house when u take off ur shirt or someplace private like a bathroom stall *heck I think they consider the stalls public too, even tho ur supposed to have privacy in there and u can sue if anyone is spying on u there* so how exactly can guys be topless and not infringe on this law, are they supposed to run all the way home when it's hot just to rip off their shirts and then run back to whereever it is they were and I mean like on beacjes they say it's illegal to change in the bathrooms, but if ppl cant sdo that, how the hell do they put their swimsuits on and what do they do when they're done do they just wear the wet swimsuits all the way home and id also love to know how the police are supposed to inforce the law of no changing in restrooms when they cant look in the stalls and theres no way to install cameras without someone suining so id really love someone to explain this.

3. Also at pools, little girls parents are getting in trouble for letting their girls go into pools topless, now I know I havent seen it myself and it does happen rarely but it does still happen, but little girls *under 10* get in trouble for being topless now I have two questions on that, 1 how is a pool lifeguard able to infringe on a right that the child has in the lawbooks I mean I think almost all places kids can go topless *female* until a certain age usually 7 to 10 and yet these guys say they cant do it and most parents put them in lil bikinis anyways and make the topless ones look stupid cuz they're the only topless girls in the pool and also the girls that do have tops r usually just lil bikinis and now I really dont get why someone would go nuts over seeing some little girl's exposed nipple when everything else is exposed and I mean cmon little girls bikini tops fall off in pools all the time jus like lil boys swimtrunks fall off sometimes so it all boils down to what is the point?, I mean why waste people's time for one buying a kid a freakin swimsuit which most places the prices are just crazy and then putting it on them and having it cover like 1 or 2 percent of their whole body mass and then having a lifeguard scare the shit out of a little kid for not having one on and not convering that dreadful little nipple and possibly making the kid feel she did something wrong and have that kid feel that way for the rest of her life, it's just insane and also the places that do allow topfreedom for little girls up to 10, some girls get breasts by then and most of the time are told to cover up even though they still have legality under the law and I wonder why they get crimilized and flat chested 10 yr olds dont for the same thing and then it really boils down to where do u draw the line on this and then if it doesnt matter if someone sees a mature breast on a 10 yr old, which i've seen some 10 yr olds have then why is it bad to see a mature one on a teenager or adult, cuz it's the same damn thing and I just wonder why they even bother.

Okay that's basically what I wanted to say, I hope u enjoyed it and respond soon.
Well, I've worked in restaurants before, and from what I understand, owners/managers don't make theses rules, the Health Department does (only God knows why). I don't suppose it matters to me as long as the person appears clean. I don't want to be eating a meal and someone come in with no shirt or shoes, with sweat running down their chest, and dirt under toe nails that haven't been cut in 3 months! That would definetely curb my appetite! So I suppose I can see why this rule exists. I mean they can't put up a "No sweat - No long, dirty toe nails" sign! You also have to remember that business owners are out to please the majority, so they'll make more money. The majority of people are offended by bare feet and bare breasts. The best thing to do is spread the word about topfreedom. See if you can open some minds to the issue. Make those who are opposed to it the minority. Then who will business owners be catering to?

As far as the last part of your posting goes, I'm disgusted. I have a daughter, and I DARE some lifeguard to tell me I have to put a top on her! The little girls wearing tops don't make the topfree girls look stupid, it's the other way around. You're right, little girls shouldn't be ridiculed for this, it's sad. That's how they train us you know? They start telling us that our breasts are "offensive" from an early age, get us selfconcious about them while we're too naive and innocent to know the difference, and we blindly carry that insecurity into adulthood. It's a vulgar display of brainwashing. If there is a pedophile lurking in the swimmimg pool, looking at little girls, HE needs to be asked to leave, not the little girls. No wonder so many rape victims feel like it was somehow their fault.
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Mike
Mike

January 5th, 2003, 11:15 pm #5

Well I know the Health Department sets up these rules, but I also know these rules are not evident everywhere so either the Health Department doesnt have power over some of these restaurants, the owners have power over some issues, or the owners simply ignore the rules and dont think they are at a very high risk of being sued or caught. I personally think that most restaurants should expect clean people to come in, I have see lots of clean shirtless guys go into like 7-11 and Dell Taco and noone said anything, of course the guy at 7-11 is zoned out half the time and I dont think he cares unless that person isnt buyin nuthin in his store and the Dell Taco guys they didnt bother either so I personally think people should be able to go topless into places, but they need to use common sense and being clean is just something common sense wise u should do anywhere and if someone isnt clean topless or not the owner should complain and I personally think if ur clean when u come in the store u should have the right to be so in there I dont think the owner should discriminate on everyone cuz some homeless guy comes in and is all dirty and stuff while everyone else is clean and enjoying themselves, that isnt right, but I think the most important thing for people to do in stores is not set rules, but just expect some common sense and yes they shouldnt have to set up signs these people should just already know this or they should be silently shown the door with the smallest amount of disruption.

As for the thing with the pool, personally if I was a girl or I had a lil girl with me,

1.personally first i'd prolly ask the lifeguard what the rules are right up front to see how much resistance im gonna get from them.

2. id take a quick look around to see how many guards there are and how much they really pat attention, because 10 to 1 odds they areint really doin their jobs 110% and somethin simple like some lil topless kid would pass them by or be lost in the crowd unless the kid had big boobs or really caused a problem.

3. I might ask the opinion of some of the visitors to the pool and see how comfortable they are with the whole thing because most likely ur average Joe aint gonna care jack what u do in the pool as long as it doesnt disrupt them or bother their kids.

I know this is a lil excessive and some people just are wanting topfreedom so bad and they really dont care about the rules and they are just gonna do it and I support that, I think if u dont think ur gonna get any trouble then just go for it and if u do get in trouble just try to talk nicely to the guard and state your feelings and intentions and im sure they'd either understand how u feel or suggest something else and I think most likely it wouldnt be a problem but if it is I think women, especially parents should fight it, especially if it is not clearly stated that it is illegal in that state/province because saying a girl cant remove her top but a boy can is clearly sexual discrimination and any discrimination based on anything is wrong and I feel people should fight it. As for the pediphile thing, personally I feel most pediphiles will cause trouble reguardless weither kids or clothed or not and that is just the way they are and I dont see how it would be any different and personally I feel if you let them see what they wanna see long enough and often enough, they WILL lose intrest and leave u well alone because their whole tihng is they want to see what they cant and if it is commonplace then they will lose interest and beside sI feel if someone is just staring it isnt harassement and there's nothing u can really do about it, u can only do something if they try to touch you or harass u in some way when u clearly say u dont like it to them and they do it anyways or if they clearly have sexual intentions, I dont see mere looking as enough a reason to do anything to anyone because everyone looks at everyone and u cant arrest or fine every guy who stares at a girl, it's natural it will happen and after a while it's really nothing. Anyways if I knew some pediphile was at a pool and I worked there, personally id let everyone be topfree, if not naked in the pool, because I beleive in such things and I would personally kick the pediphile out of my pool and not let him/her back in ever again and if they did come in id call the police and let them take of the person, I mean first id ask nicely for themt o leave but after that I wouldnt be so nice, I wouldnt have to tolerate some pervert comin into my pool and harassing my guests who are there and enjoying themselves and excersicing their freedom to be topfree and it just would not happen and if I was just a visitor to the pool, I would make the lifeguard very much aware of the pediphile and I would demand that they be immediately removed because it is the pediphile who needs to be removed not the young girls, those girls dont intened any harm by being topfree no more than a topfree boy does and id want to insure that everyone would be safe and that they could exercise their freedom without any outside trouble. Id love to hear more opinions on these two subjects.
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Teri
Teri

January 6th, 2003, 2:24 am #6

Well, I've worked in restaurants before, and from what I understand, owners/managers don't make theses rules, the Health Department does (only God knows why). I don't suppose it matters to me as long as the person appears clean. I don't want to be eating a meal and someone come in with no shirt or shoes, with sweat running down their chest, and dirt under toe nails that haven't been cut in 3 months! That would definetely curb my appetite! So I suppose I can see why this rule exists. I mean they can't put up a "No sweat - No long, dirty toe nails" sign! You also have to remember that business owners are out to please the majority, so they'll make more money. The majority of people are offended by bare feet and bare breasts. The best thing to do is spread the word about topfreedom. See if you can open some minds to the issue. Make those who are opposed to it the minority. Then who will business owners be catering to?

As far as the last part of your posting goes, I'm disgusted. I have a daughter, and I DARE some lifeguard to tell me I have to put a top on her! The little girls wearing tops don't make the topfree girls look stupid, it's the other way around. You're right, little girls shouldn't be ridiculed for this, it's sad. That's how they train us you know? They start telling us that our breasts are "offensive" from an early age, get us selfconcious about them while we're too naive and innocent to know the difference, and we blindly carry that insecurity into adulthood. It's a vulgar display of brainwashing. If there is a pedophile lurking in the swimmimg pool, looking at little girls, HE needs to be asked to leave, not the little girls. No wonder so many rape victims feel like it was somehow their fault.
I sure don't see how a pedophile is excited to see a 3 year girl's chest when its looks exactly like her brother's! Until puberty male and female chests are indistinguishable.
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John Bayko
John Bayko

January 7th, 2003, 2:48 am #7

"I sure don't see how a pedophile is excited to see a 3 year girl's chest when its looks exactly like her brother's! Until puberty male and female chests are indistinguishable."

I suppose you can make their chests seem distinguished by treating them as sexual, by making them cover up with child-sized adult-looking tops.

I suppose you could dress them up entirely as sexually mature women, and you could fantacize about them. If you were a paedophile. Or a parent entering them into a "childrens' beauty contest".

BTW - not to complain about the word "pedophile" or anything, I just think it's amusing - "pedo-" means about feet, "paedo-" means about children. When people say "pedophile" instead of "paedophile" I think of foot fetishes, even though I know what you really mean...
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Mike
Mike

January 7th, 2003, 3:18 am #8

I dont really spell words like that that well and I figure most people on here know what im talkin about anyways so I dont really bother trying.

Yeah some parents are nutty when they dress their kids up in adult attire and make em look like adults and try to distinguish them at a young age, I dont think it matters so much when they're little, but I really think this has to do with families that have lil bros AND sisters so the parents can distingush them, but when they do this they implant a negative idea in the kids head that they have tyo cover these parts, even tho when they're young it's perfectly legal not to and they carry this impulse into adulthood and feel sqeemish when people want them to try topfreedom, I think parents should let kids be kids while they are young and not worry about it so much and just let their lil girls go topfree as long as they can without any problems, because most likely it is either legal *just with normal being topfree* or most people dont really give u much trouble that they wouldnt have to worry about it unless it is really appearant that they are female *big boobs or long hair* or if it starts to offend someone or they do something that is not right, that's the only time I think they'd have to worry otherwise id just let em go topfree and not worry about it so much if I was a parent and until their breasts became really appearant id just cut their hair short n no one would know the difference and it wouldnt matter cuz I dont see the point in covering up a lil girl until u have to if u have to at all. that's basically how I feel.
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Whitney
Whitney

January 7th, 2003, 10:43 am #9

I sure don't see how a pedophile is excited to see a 3 year girl's chest when its looks exactly like her brother's! Until puberty male and female chests are indistinguishable.
I've studied about numerous different sexual addictions (pornography addiction in particular, but) from what I understand, pedophiles are not molesters, they are voyers (potential molesters, nonetheless), and, they can be hetero or homosexual. Who knows how they develop their sexual preferences?
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Whitney
Whitney

January 7th, 2003, 11:00 am #10

"I sure don't see how a pedophile is excited to see a 3 year girl's chest when its looks exactly like her brother's! Until puberty male and female chests are indistinguishable."

I suppose you can make their chests seem distinguished by treating them as sexual, by making them cover up with child-sized adult-looking tops.

I suppose you could dress them up entirely as sexually mature women, and you could fantacize about them. If you were a paedophile. Or a parent entering them into a "childrens' beauty contest".

BTW - not to complain about the word "pedophile" or anything, I just think it's amusing - "pedo-" means about feet, "paedo-" means about children. When people say "pedophile" instead of "paedophile" I think of foot fetishes, even though I know what you really mean...
I Totally agree with what you said about sexualizing a little girls breasts by covering them the way you would a woman's, (not that I think a woman is necessarily being sexual when her top is off of course, but I KNOW a little girl isn't!) You make a very good point. As far as the spelling goes, I don't paedicure my toes, I pedicure them. I don't see a paediatrist, I see a pediatrist. My daughter goes to a pediatrician, not a paediatrician. According to my dictionary it's spelled "pedOphile", not pedIphile, or pAedophile. Great, now I've confused my own self! I guess it doesn't really matter anyway, as long as we're all on the same page.
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