Don't Know What to Think

Don't Know What to Think

Bob
Bob

July 18th, 2006, 7:16 pm #1

Like most people, I just wish the conflicts in that region would stop. Generations of Palestinians and Isrealis have lived with violence and killing, and I don't see an end in sight. I don't see Jews and Muslims peacefully co-habiting in that part of the world. I think the only thing that would stop the violence is if Isreal could be relocated to another part of the world . . but I'm sure that is unrealistic.

I once imagined that the U.S. could offer the Isreali govt an even larger parcel of land within our borders that could become the new Jewish homeland. They could build replicas of Holy sites, fly in soil/sand from places in Isreal, bless them sites, etc., and start a new tradition here. Then, they could be away from the hostile Arab countries that currently surround them, and the Palestinians could get their land back. Without an enemy to hate, the only violence that would ensue would be that which some factions would seek to perpetuate . . this time vs. other Arabs (which is entirely possible).

If we made the offer and Isreal refused, U.S. could then pull its backing . . "you're on your own." Friends have told me this a a crackpot idea, but what is the alternatives? . . . . perpetual fighting and killing? I think its worth a try.
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 18th, 2006, 8:56 pm #2

To Jews, Jerusalem is their holyland and it wouldn't be the same if it was in the US or anywhere else. We are talking about thousands years old religious tradition here. And to complicate things Palestinians also claim the same land with and also have strong historic claims. It's just an unsolvable problem.

There was a time a few years ago I though peaceful co-existence would work and I supported Israel's pull-back from Gaza area as a peace gesture but I can see now that nothing short of the total abolishment of Israel will satisfy the militain Muslims.

And unfortunately the Iraq war has only made all this worse in a number of ways.
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tgobg
tgobg

July 19th, 2006, 12:41 am #3

I say Jerusalem should be off limits to everyone. Make it a holy place that can only be visited during the day light no weapons allowed and a bunch of other restrictions. If every mideast religion claims it as a holy place then they should have to share it.

Or... Just let them all fight it out and the winner takes all.

The worst thing that ever happened to the middle east was the discovery of oil and the money that comes with it. For the most part they are still nomadic warrior tribes and haven't developed the social responsiblities to be a part of the world stage. Many still do not show the restraint or tolerance to interact with people who's personal views/beliefs do not agree with theirs. I am not saying this about all the people, however, it seems that the ones with the most money and power are the ones least tolerant of the views that others have.
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Bob
Bob

July 19th, 2006, 1:39 am #4

To Jews, Jerusalem is their holyland and it wouldn't be the same if it was in the US or anywhere else. We are talking about thousands years old religious tradition here. And to complicate things Palestinians also claim the same land with and also have strong historic claims. It's just an unsolvable problem.

There was a time a few years ago I though peaceful co-existence would work and I supported Israel's pull-back from Gaza area as a peace gesture but I can see now that nothing short of the total abolishment of Israel will satisfy the militain Muslims.

And unfortunately the Iraq war has only made all this worse in a number of ways.
The U.S. position toward Isreal could be: A) Relocate out of the Middle East, to an area within U.S. or any other available locale, or B) U.S. drops all military/monetary support to Isreal and lets them go it alone. Either way, U.S. rids itself of one problem.

Nat: Sorry to start a new thread -- meant to respond to your below.
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 19th, 2006, 2:25 am #5

Well I just don't think Jews would agree to a transplanted holyland. Afterall- if it wasn't so important to them to be there on that land- the U.N. could have put them somewhere else in 1946 not amoung hostile neighbors and avoided all these years of fighting.
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Bob
Bob

July 19th, 2006, 12:23 pm #6

You are right -- Isreal would probably never agree to leave that land, due to its historical/religious significance. But, as symbolism and ceremony is a big part of faith, I thought there should be a slight chance that it could work if soil, stone, plants, etc. from the area could be airlifted to their new home, Holy places re-created using such items, then bless everything and make it the "new Holy Land". I wonder if losing U.S. support, and an escalation in killing that would likely result, would be the final straw that gets them to reconsider??

btw, I believe that if Jews vacated the land area that comprises the state of Isreal, killing and fighting would still go on. Arab/Muslim factions would continue to fight and blow eaxch other up, to try to force their version of Islam on the populace. It likely wouldn't be much different than we've seen in Afghanistan, Iran and other such states. But, at least U.S. wouldn't be caught in the middle like we have been and still are.
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Marseil
Marseil

July 19th, 2006, 1:20 pm #7

Like most people, I just wish the conflicts in that region would stop. Generations of Palestinians and Isrealis have lived with violence and killing, and I don't see an end in sight. I don't see Jews and Muslims peacefully co-habiting in that part of the world. I think the only thing that would stop the violence is if Isreal could be relocated to another part of the world . . but I'm sure that is unrealistic.

I once imagined that the U.S. could offer the Isreali govt an even larger parcel of land within our borders that could become the new Jewish homeland. They could build replicas of Holy sites, fly in soil/sand from places in Isreal, bless them sites, etc., and start a new tradition here. Then, they could be away from the hostile Arab countries that currently surround them, and the Palestinians could get their land back. Without an enemy to hate, the only violence that would ensue would be that which some factions would seek to perpetuate . . this time vs. other Arabs (which is entirely possible).

If we made the offer and Isreal refused, U.S. could then pull its backing . . "you're on your own." Friends have told me this a a crackpot idea, but what is the alternatives? . . . . perpetual fighting and killing? I think its worth a try.
Well this has already been attempted. I was called Birobidzhan, created by Josef Stalin as a land for the Jews in 1928. You may realize it did not work....

For details about this place and its history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast

Marseil.
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 19th, 2006, 1:27 pm #8

You are right -- Isreal would probably never agree to leave that land, due to its historical/religious significance. But, as symbolism and ceremony is a big part of faith, I thought there should be a slight chance that it could work if soil, stone, plants, etc. from the area could be airlifted to their new home, Holy places re-created using such items, then bless everything and make it the "new Holy Land". I wonder if losing U.S. support, and an escalation in killing that would likely result, would be the final straw that gets them to reconsider??

btw, I believe that if Jews vacated the land area that comprises the state of Isreal, killing and fighting would still go on. Arab/Muslim factions would continue to fight and blow eaxch other up, to try to force their version of Islam on the populace. It likely wouldn't be much different than we've seen in Afghanistan, Iran and other such states. But, at least U.S. wouldn't be caught in the middle like we have been and still are.
Well you know it's often been said that religion- or specifically- "my religion is better than yours" has been responsible for more wars, deaths and suffering than anything else on earth. Ironic isn't it?
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Bob
Bob

July 19th, 2006, 3:24 pm #9

Well this has already been attempted. I was called Birobidzhan, created by Josef Stalin as a land for the Jews in 1928. You may realize it did not work....

For details about this place and its history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast

Marseil.
"Some political observers — particularly those sympathetic to the Palestinian cause in the Middle East — have proposed resurrecting the Jewish Autonomous Republic as both an alternative to Israel as the Jewish national homeland and as a permanent solution to the ongoing Arab-Jewish difficulties. The idea has yet to demonstrate that it has garnered any significant support from the world community at large, however."

No, I wasn't aware that this had been tried. I wonder if it would be possible, with a specific proposal, to garner enough world-wide support that pressure upon the Isreali government could finally become great enough (in addition to the on-going fighting and killing we have seen) to persuade them to accept a new homeland?

Here's my idea: U.S. could offer Isrealis a portion of land in southwestern Oregon that is larger than the current state of Isreal. The parcel would take just a fraction of the total area of Oregon, and provide Jews with a coastal area and reasonably mild climite (less hot than Isreal . . . land that would be easier to cultivate). Oregon is less-populated than many other areas of the U.S., and Oregonians would retain their largest city, Portland and at least three-fourths of their current land. People currently residing in the affected area would be helped to relocate. There would be an agreement that the major interstates through the area (especially I-5) would remain open to traffic from north and south (probably with checkpoints added so that Jews could feel some control over who is entering their territory).

Wouldn't that be a great alternative to the current situation? The Jewish people could live in their own land and not have to worry about all this fighting and killing. Yes, I know, unrealistic! Sigh!!
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Shadow
Shadow

July 19th, 2006, 4:36 pm #10

There are already quite a few Indian (Native American) reservations in Oregon, and the southern part you are suggesting might already be occupied by such. I don't know about others, but my thinking is that those who have been relocated from their original homes and moved to reservations resent it. They still live on them, but they don't like much about it. It would be the same with the Isreal.

Maybe we should just let them kill each other and get it over with! Since the mess started in a few days ago gas prices have already gone up again. Why it should, I have no idea. Just another excuse to make more profit. So do we stick our noses in there too? Like we did with Iraq? I say no.
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