Dead Horses, Asking Questions and Changing the World

Dead Horses, Asking Questions and Changing the World

Joined: April 11th, 2004, 7:40 pm

July 25th, 2004, 4:58 pm #1

I suspect we have beaten the subject of breasts and sexuality into the ground. While there have been some interesting theoretical viewpoints none of this is going to change the world or advance the cause of women's freedom.

The practical considerations are what arguments or measures are needed to influence law makers, law enforcers, and the judiciary that the sight of a woman's breast is not going to bring down the entire moral fabric of society and create scenes of unprecedented debauchery, violence and breakdown of the rule of law.

By extension these arguments or steps must also be directed towards community attitudes since it is to a supposed community standard that the former turn to rationalise their position. The preservation of community standards and the protection of the public from unsolicited offence.

However most of these points relate to top freedom. The only real barriers to bra freedom are the various stares or comments that some members have described in these pages. There is of course one other barrier, that of slavery to ideas, the idea that 'women have to wear a bra'. This comment appears repeatedly on bulletin bords that discuss this topic.

"Those who dare to fail miserably can achieve greatly. "
- Robert F. Kennedy

<font color=”551188” face="Helvetica">Michael</font>
[color=blue" face="Helvetica]”Just Do It!”[/color]
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 25th, 2004, 9:47 pm #2

Yes we do talk about this a lot Michael because its the essence of why women do not have breast freedom. People keep asking "why de-sexualize breasts?" and I have to keep explaining the reason women don't have breast freedom is because of the perception breasts are "sexual" parts and as long as they are society will forbid their exposure in public and expect their confinement in bras.

Since this is a breast "freedom" forum, those who are more interested in sexual aspects than freedom should find a forum more compatible to their views.
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Joined: July 19th, 2004, 5:18 am

July 26th, 2004, 1:49 am #3

I suspect we have beaten the subject of breasts and sexuality into the ground. While there have been some interesting theoretical viewpoints none of this is going to change the world or advance the cause of women's freedom.

The practical considerations are what arguments or measures are needed to influence law makers, law enforcers, and the judiciary that the sight of a woman's breast is not going to bring down the entire moral fabric of society and create scenes of unprecedented debauchery, violence and breakdown of the rule of law.

By extension these arguments or steps must also be directed towards community attitudes since it is to a supposed community standard that the former turn to rationalise their position. The preservation of community standards and the protection of the public from unsolicited offence.

However most of these points relate to top freedom. The only real barriers to bra freedom are the various stares or comments that some members have described in these pages. There is of course one other barrier, that of slavery to ideas, the idea that 'women have to wear a bra'. This comment appears repeatedly on bulletin bords that discuss this topic.

"Those who dare to fail miserably can achieve greatly. "
- Robert F. Kennedy

<font color=”551188” face="Helvetica">Michael</font>
[color=blue" face="Helvetica]”Just Do It!”[/color]
Why should women's were them if they hurt women so much?
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Amber
Amber

July 26th, 2004, 2:13 am #4

Because, there's a lot of bras on the market today for shaping and increasing firmness and fullness, that many women buy them just to be sexy-too much of the time without realising that natural breasts-big or small-are beautiful and sexy just the way they are!(Some want/need support while playing sports.) I once met a women who beleived that not wearing a bra made breasts saggy, and that consistantly wearing a bra made breasts pemanantly firm and rounded-no way!!!
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Joined: April 11th, 2004, 7:40 pm

July 26th, 2004, 2:52 am #5

Well said. Ah, wishful thinking.

So much of this debate is about body image and false expectations. Not too dissimilar to the whole eating disorder problem. People are led to unrealistic expectations, and are left unfulfilled and struggling with the instrument of torture under the tragic belief that it is the route to success and acceptance in life.

Now how to change that - and try not to mention the S word (sex) - not much hope I suppose.

<font color=”551188” face="Helvetica">Michael</font>
[color=blue" face="Helvetica]”Just Do It!”[/color]
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Joined: April 11th, 2004, 7:40 pm

July 26th, 2004, 2:55 am #6

I suspect we have beaten the subject of breasts and sexuality into the ground. While there have been some interesting theoretical viewpoints none of this is going to change the world or advance the cause of women's freedom.

The practical considerations are what arguments or measures are needed to influence law makers, law enforcers, and the judiciary that the sight of a woman's breast is not going to bring down the entire moral fabric of society and create scenes of unprecedented debauchery, violence and breakdown of the rule of law.

By extension these arguments or steps must also be directed towards community attitudes since it is to a supposed community standard that the former turn to rationalise their position. The preservation of community standards and the protection of the public from unsolicited offence.

However most of these points relate to top freedom. The only real barriers to bra freedom are the various stares or comments that some members have described in these pages. There is of course one other barrier, that of slavery to ideas, the idea that 'women have to wear a bra'. This comment appears repeatedly on bulletin bords that discuss this topic.

"Those who dare to fail miserably can achieve greatly. "
- Robert F. Kennedy

<font color=”551188” face="Helvetica">Michael</font>
[color=blue" face="Helvetica]”Just Do It!”[/color]
I do think that some of the small progress that has been made in the acceptance of breast feeding (even restoring the name - previously 'nursing') in public represents a step towards breast acceptance, and there may be lessons to be learnt here.

<font color=”551188” face="Helvetica">Michael</font>
[color=blue" face="Helvetica]”Just Do It!”[/color]
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Joined: April 11th, 2004, 7:40 pm

July 26th, 2004, 11:57 am #7

Why should women's were them if they hurt women so much?
A good question David.

The short answer to a short question is that there is no biological, medical, social, religious or moral reason why a woman should have to wear a bra (or any other piece of underwear for that matter) if she does not want to.

There is no way you could get a dress code that required a bra to stick.

Therefore, theoretically end of discussion and for that matter that part of the Forum dealing with this issue. It should be a done deal.

The only thing left to discuss is alternatives to bras and what you might or might not wear on top if you are bra free.

Topfreedom is a more complex issue, and a tougher thing to change radically. We have to convince society that while a woman's breast may be a thing of beauty to be admired and enjoyed, it is not an invitation any more than an ankle or calf.

<font color=”551188” face="Helvetica">Michael</font>
[color=blue" face="Helvetica]”Just Do It!”[/color]
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Kelli
Kelli

July 26th, 2004, 12:56 pm #8

Because, there's a lot of bras on the market today for shaping and increasing firmness and fullness, that many women buy them just to be sexy-too much of the time without realising that natural breasts-big or small-are beautiful and sexy just the way they are!(Some want/need support while playing sports.) I once met a women who beleived that not wearing a bra made breasts saggy, and that consistantly wearing a bra made breasts pemanantly firm and rounded-no way!!!
Well said Amber.
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Joined: July 7th, 2004, 4:50 pm

July 26th, 2004, 2:47 pm #9

Because, there's a lot of bras on the market today for shaping and increasing firmness and fullness, that many women buy them just to be sexy-too much of the time without realising that natural breasts-big or small-are beautiful and sexy just the way they are!(Some want/need support while playing sports.) I once met a women who beleived that not wearing a bra made breasts saggy, and that consistantly wearing a bra made breasts pemanantly firm and rounded-no way!!!
And something to keep in mind is that the SOP marketing tactics of today focus on convincing you that something is wrong with you, so that you can go out and buy the product that will fix that problem. Never mind that you never really had the problem in the first place....
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Joined: April 11th, 2004, 7:40 pm

July 26th, 2004, 4:31 pm #10

Absolutely. It was Vance Packard who drew the general public's attention to this strategy.

The most egregious example at present is the myth of Female Sexual Dysfunction.
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/life/ ... 4492_84492

The pharmaceutical industry is heel bent on convincing women that 40% of them have a dysfunctional sex life so that they can sell them something. 40%? That makes a mockery out of the distinction between normal variation and illness.

Another chapter in the victimisation of women by the advertising industry.

<font color=”551188” face="Helvetica">Michael</font>
[color=blue" face="Helvetica]”Just Do It!”[/color]

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