Bra/Topfreedom discussion

Bra/Topfreedom discussion

Mike
Mike

April 9th, 2003, 11:10 pm #1

Hi, This month when I was reading my school newspaper, I read an article which was written by a fellow student of mine *I dont know who it is*. I think it was a girl though because of the way she talked and the references she made. Anyways the article had to do with fashion and the school dress code for girls.

She was commenting on the fact that in today's fashion which I have seen but have no true knowledge of the fashion industry. She said that alot of girls were wearing mini skirts and "a large table napkin around their chests", now you are probably wondering "what does this have to do with a brafreedom/topfreedom website WELL when you see what the article's premise and the girl's idea she was trying to give out youll understand.

Anyways she seemed to have a very conservative view on the human body and just clothes in general, not to knock any conservatives on here but it was just her view that women are wearing less and less these days which to some extent is the direct opposite. She said that she thought this country was lacking morals because of the fashion industry and their results on kids, well last time I checked the fashion industry had few morals worth talking about and its the last place id look for good morals especially for my kids if I had any. She made several references to how people like christina Aguleara and several other singers and such people were wearing less and contributing to how girls today dress and she was appauled by it. I mean she thought that the girls today lack morals and to some extent they do, but she thought this because they were wearing less and less and she thought that girls should "leave something to themselves". In my personal opinion I just think she is an insecure young girl who doesnt accept her body and or was brought up to beleive it is not right to expose certain parts which most of us here know otherwise.

I just think this girl is sending the wrong message to girls and women in general, because most girls are insecure about their bodies and they go to great extents to make themselves ideal and do everything they can to have "the look". I just dont think this is how they should think and most of them because of this will not wear anything that exposes their supposedly "imperfect bodies". Not that im saying every girl should rip of their shirts and everything but I think they should be more open about their bodies and be more grateful about themselves being the way they are and understanding themselves more. That's one of the biggest reasons that the bra/topfreedom thing hasnt caught on to too many people yet and the few girls who do wear what is comfortable and are able to look like they accept their bodies just do it for shock value and to attract guys and show off. This is not something we want. We dont want the idea of exposed bodies and body parts just as some exhibitionist or sex thing. We want it as a normal healthy part of life, its bad enough that most guys wear alot and cover up more than most girls and since alot of girls look up to guys and usually do what they do that just makes them feel even more insecure. What I think really needs to be done is to get alot of these girls away from these stupid Pop singers/rap singers etc, because they might make good music, they might give a good morals speech and they might have everything, but in reality this is just an image that covers up what they really are. They are just a bunch of low down sluts out for money, thats all it really is popularity and money. Now I know there are some celebs who are genuinely good, but they are few and far between. I just honestly beleive the entertainment industry is not the place especially for impressionateble teens to go looking for role models and professional advice, especially when there are teachers, social workers, PARENTS!!!, and any number of "average joe" type people who may not bring in all the bucks or have all his homies with em but still be able to change someone's life for the better.

Basically the whole article was this big fat thing about morals and personally I feel they were the wrong morals because I have always thought that people should be open about themselves and not leave anything to hide. I think people need to just accept everyone the way they are or at least PRETEND they do, I mean the least they should do is accept people and not give them any slack because they are the way they are, people should be able to go out into public and enjoy themselves and be happy and go on about their lives without ANY negative comments based on sex race, gender, body parts, etc that is just something that should not be accepted, freedom of speech or not, I mean you can have your opinion but you should express it in a civilized way and not be going "youre gay" or "youre a dumba--" or "look at her headlights!". Nobody needs to hear that and everyone is always bitchin about how youre supposed to act in public, yet nobody seems to enforce it, they let people be rude and do their thing and just let everyone decay and as long as this happens nobody is going to be able to go brafree or topfree at least not without some rude unscrupuous person putting in their negative opinion where it is neither asked for nor wanted. Besides it is legal beleive it or not to go topfree most places "except places with dumb municiple codes, which actually defy the the actual state laws that say the opposite", the only thing that stops people from doing it is, municiple codes, cops uneducated about the law, or people who find other means to find an excuse to not allow them to do it. I mean why does Congress have to pass a "yes it really is legal law" just so everyone can take a hint. Most places, the law says that simple topfreedom is not illegal, only if you are topfree doing something sexual or lewd is it considered illegal. It seems most counties and cities use their dumb municipal codes "mine included" to keep people from doing this and they say it is for "the good of the public" and "to keep our good county/city's morals strong". Beleive it or not the only thing you cant have uncovered is a NIPPLE!!!! and they say that covering a nipple is for the good of the public, yet any guy could wiggle his nipple in ur face and not get in trouble for it. Somehow unconvering a female nipple is somehow demoralizing, yet unconvering their breasts themselves isnt but the nipple is the one thing both sexes have and is nearly identical. So my question for them is "what is the friggin point in doing this???????" especially if u got almost 70% of boob fat hanging out for all the world to see and most bikini tops are so small they look dumb and the female would actually look and feel better without it, if it wasnt for their shyness im sure most women would agree. Anyways, I bet that only 1% of the total US female population would take their tops off given the choice, so its like what is the problem, you are not going to have mass droves of women all over the country running around the streets topless, you dont see that in guys, especially these days and thus you wont in women, plain and simple. So why is it a problem that we just dont be good lil politicians and stop whining like 3 yr olds and just make the good ole "yes it really is legal to be topfree law" and just move on to more important issues, because im sure everyone would be alot happier that way and as for it being demoralizing to kids, well all u gotta do is sit down and explain it to them in easy and understanding way and by the time ur done they wont think twice about it.

Anyways thats basically what that was about and I thought it was good to get away from the "I wanna tan my boobs for the summer thing" and talk about something important, I hope some people read this and get something from it. I just had to let my frustrations out because some people still dont get it and I really dont know who to run and yell to as of yet, anyone that would listen to me anyways. Thanks to all if you read this far.
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Ray
Ray

April 10th, 2003, 2:40 am #2

I suppose it depends on where you live, but from what I see, school dress is much more conservative compared to what kids wore when I was in school thirty years ago. Clothes were much shorter, tighter, and more revealing than anything I see today. This is especially true of boys clothes which are so long and baggy now.
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Mike
Mike

April 10th, 2003, 6:12 am #3

Yes, almost every guy at my school wears baggy clothes and the girls either wear real conservative outfits or things that, if u sneeze....it falls off!!!, but anyways its still alot more conservative than before and thats sad. The kids at my school are so picky about how their clothes look, they adjust their clothes like every few seconds, its annoying because they are jus fine the way they are and yet they always gotta pull em up or adjust this or that and it really is sad how everyone looks at themselves and what they wear and everyone is always fighting to wear the best or sexiest outfit and sometimes I just wish everyone could just come to school topless just wearing pants/shorts and shoes and not worry about it. Thats what id do everyday if we could and im sure the girls would be much more secure about themselves if they did too and saw how normal everyone was instead of the "thin barbie image" everyone expects of them. Anyways I never got what someones attire had to do with getting an education in the first place.
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Marv
Marv

April 10th, 2003, 4:40 pm #4

Hi, This month when I was reading my school newspaper, I read an article which was written by a fellow student of mine *I dont know who it is*. I think it was a girl though because of the way she talked and the references she made. Anyways the article had to do with fashion and the school dress code for girls.

She was commenting on the fact that in today's fashion which I have seen but have no true knowledge of the fashion industry. She said that alot of girls were wearing mini skirts and "a large table napkin around their chests", now you are probably wondering "what does this have to do with a brafreedom/topfreedom website WELL when you see what the article's premise and the girl's idea she was trying to give out youll understand.

Anyways she seemed to have a very conservative view on the human body and just clothes in general, not to knock any conservatives on here but it was just her view that women are wearing less and less these days which to some extent is the direct opposite. She said that she thought this country was lacking morals because of the fashion industry and their results on kids, well last time I checked the fashion industry had few morals worth talking about and its the last place id look for good morals especially for my kids if I had any. She made several references to how people like christina Aguleara and several other singers and such people were wearing less and contributing to how girls today dress and she was appauled by it. I mean she thought that the girls today lack morals and to some extent they do, but she thought this because they were wearing less and less and she thought that girls should "leave something to themselves". In my personal opinion I just think she is an insecure young girl who doesnt accept her body and or was brought up to beleive it is not right to expose certain parts which most of us here know otherwise.

I just think this girl is sending the wrong message to girls and women in general, because most girls are insecure about their bodies and they go to great extents to make themselves ideal and do everything they can to have "the look". I just dont think this is how they should think and most of them because of this will not wear anything that exposes their supposedly "imperfect bodies". Not that im saying every girl should rip of their shirts and everything but I think they should be more open about their bodies and be more grateful about themselves being the way they are and understanding themselves more. That's one of the biggest reasons that the bra/topfreedom thing hasnt caught on to too many people yet and the few girls who do wear what is comfortable and are able to look like they accept their bodies just do it for shock value and to attract guys and show off. This is not something we want. We dont want the idea of exposed bodies and body parts just as some exhibitionist or sex thing. We want it as a normal healthy part of life, its bad enough that most guys wear alot and cover up more than most girls and since alot of girls look up to guys and usually do what they do that just makes them feel even more insecure. What I think really needs to be done is to get alot of these girls away from these stupid Pop singers/rap singers etc, because they might make good music, they might give a good morals speech and they might have everything, but in reality this is just an image that covers up what they really are. They are just a bunch of low down sluts out for money, thats all it really is popularity and money. Now I know there are some celebs who are genuinely good, but they are few and far between. I just honestly beleive the entertainment industry is not the place especially for impressionateble teens to go looking for role models and professional advice, especially when there are teachers, social workers, PARENTS!!!, and any number of "average joe" type people who may not bring in all the bucks or have all his homies with em but still be able to change someone's life for the better.

Basically the whole article was this big fat thing about morals and personally I feel they were the wrong morals because I have always thought that people should be open about themselves and not leave anything to hide. I think people need to just accept everyone the way they are or at least PRETEND they do, I mean the least they should do is accept people and not give them any slack because they are the way they are, people should be able to go out into public and enjoy themselves and be happy and go on about their lives without ANY negative comments based on sex race, gender, body parts, etc that is just something that should not be accepted, freedom of speech or not, I mean you can have your opinion but you should express it in a civilized way and not be going "youre gay" or "youre a dumba--" or "look at her headlights!". Nobody needs to hear that and everyone is always bitchin about how youre supposed to act in public, yet nobody seems to enforce it, they let people be rude and do their thing and just let everyone decay and as long as this happens nobody is going to be able to go brafree or topfree at least not without some rude unscrupuous person putting in their negative opinion where it is neither asked for nor wanted. Besides it is legal beleive it or not to go topfree most places "except places with dumb municiple codes, which actually defy the the actual state laws that say the opposite", the only thing that stops people from doing it is, municiple codes, cops uneducated about the law, or people who find other means to find an excuse to not allow them to do it. I mean why does Congress have to pass a "yes it really is legal law" just so everyone can take a hint. Most places, the law says that simple topfreedom is not illegal, only if you are topfree doing something sexual or lewd is it considered illegal. It seems most counties and cities use their dumb municipal codes "mine included" to keep people from doing this and they say it is for "the good of the public" and "to keep our good county/city's morals strong". Beleive it or not the only thing you cant have uncovered is a NIPPLE!!!! and they say that covering a nipple is for the good of the public, yet any guy could wiggle his nipple in ur face and not get in trouble for it. Somehow unconvering a female nipple is somehow demoralizing, yet unconvering their breasts themselves isnt but the nipple is the one thing both sexes have and is nearly identical. So my question for them is "what is the friggin point in doing this???????" especially if u got almost 70% of boob fat hanging out for all the world to see and most bikini tops are so small they look dumb and the female would actually look and feel better without it, if it wasnt for their shyness im sure most women would agree. Anyways, I bet that only 1% of the total US female population would take their tops off given the choice, so its like what is the problem, you are not going to have mass droves of women all over the country running around the streets topless, you dont see that in guys, especially these days and thus you wont in women, plain and simple. So why is it a problem that we just dont be good lil politicians and stop whining like 3 yr olds and just make the good ole "yes it really is legal to be topfree law" and just move on to more important issues, because im sure everyone would be alot happier that way and as for it being demoralizing to kids, well all u gotta do is sit down and explain it to them in easy and understanding way and by the time ur done they wont think twice about it.

Anyways thats basically what that was about and I thought it was good to get away from the "I wanna tan my boobs for the summer thing" and talk about something important, I hope some people read this and get something from it. I just had to let my frustrations out because some people still dont get it and I really dont know who to run and yell to as of yet, anyone that would listen to me anyways. Thanks to all if you read this far.
NBC had a story two night ago how women are watching to much TV and while watching TV they are eating junk food and causing over weight and diabetes ETC ETC. First don`t think this only alplies to only womem. Second I think there is a deeper problem. I blame air conditioning. In the sumer time if they did`t turn on the AC they would be outside looking a cool activity, and people would be dressing for the heat not the fashon, Now days every place cars also you can dress in a three peice suit any time you want. Our church and or Good Sam camping club won`t do any thing ouside in the warm weather unless they have AC. They will not dress down or dress for the weather. I know this has no afect on bra-freedom but a direct afect on modesty. Watch the plublic pools in the spring most the women start out with one peace suit, after they get tan they break out the two piece???????????
Why the males wear Knee pants????????
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Mike
Mike

April 10th, 2003, 8:59 pm #5

Well basically most of us in this country are just lazy, I mean everything always seems to have to be convient and easy for us. 30-40 years ago, people didnt even have AC in most places and you HAD to deal with it and most people DID dress for the weather, i've heard about how kids and even GIRLS used to wear very little and they had to because of the weather, now their thoughts are "oh I dont need to wear that cuz I can just go into my cushy lil ac room!". They just take for granted what they didnt used to have and what some people still dont have.

That's what bugs me about technology, when we develop all this stuff to take the place of what we used to have to do ourselves, we forget how to do certain things and our society degrades. I mean me like anyone else is grateful we have all this technology but I kind of wish we didnt have some of it so people would learn to work just a lil harder for what they get and not expect it to be handed to them every time. Little girls used to go play in pools and run around in the summertime in shorts and not much else but now you never see any of that because there just isnt any need for it in anyone's opinion, usually wherever you go that isnt outside they crank up the ac so much that if you did have that stuff on youd get sick. You almost have to bundle up just to go inside the shopping malls anymore, I just think this country needs to reevaluate some of its values, learn to enjoy themselves, not be so modest, just be open and free and just try to turn off the ac, open some doors and windows, just enjoy the wind and the sunlight, Most of the time people dont even need the ac they just think they do cuz thats how they were brought up and beleive me if alot of people turned off their ac's when they didnt need em it would get the energy/conservationists off everyones back for a change too. Why waste energy when you can just strip, crank open a few windows and pour ytourself a glass of water and just enjoy nature the way it was intended to be enjoyed.
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 10th, 2003, 9:41 pm #6

Hi, This month when I was reading my school newspaper, I read an article which was written by a fellow student of mine *I dont know who it is*. I think it was a girl though because of the way she talked and the references she made. Anyways the article had to do with fashion and the school dress code for girls.

She was commenting on the fact that in today's fashion which I have seen but have no true knowledge of the fashion industry. She said that alot of girls were wearing mini skirts and "a large table napkin around their chests", now you are probably wondering "what does this have to do with a brafreedom/topfreedom website WELL when you see what the article's premise and the girl's idea she was trying to give out youll understand.

Anyways she seemed to have a very conservative view on the human body and just clothes in general, not to knock any conservatives on here but it was just her view that women are wearing less and less these days which to some extent is the direct opposite. She said that she thought this country was lacking morals because of the fashion industry and their results on kids, well last time I checked the fashion industry had few morals worth talking about and its the last place id look for good morals especially for my kids if I had any. She made several references to how people like christina Aguleara and several other singers and such people were wearing less and contributing to how girls today dress and she was appauled by it. I mean she thought that the girls today lack morals and to some extent they do, but she thought this because they were wearing less and less and she thought that girls should "leave something to themselves". In my personal opinion I just think she is an insecure young girl who doesnt accept her body and or was brought up to beleive it is not right to expose certain parts which most of us here know otherwise.

I just think this girl is sending the wrong message to girls and women in general, because most girls are insecure about their bodies and they go to great extents to make themselves ideal and do everything they can to have "the look". I just dont think this is how they should think and most of them because of this will not wear anything that exposes their supposedly "imperfect bodies". Not that im saying every girl should rip of their shirts and everything but I think they should be more open about their bodies and be more grateful about themselves being the way they are and understanding themselves more. That's one of the biggest reasons that the bra/topfreedom thing hasnt caught on to too many people yet and the few girls who do wear what is comfortable and are able to look like they accept their bodies just do it for shock value and to attract guys and show off. This is not something we want. We dont want the idea of exposed bodies and body parts just as some exhibitionist or sex thing. We want it as a normal healthy part of life, its bad enough that most guys wear alot and cover up more than most girls and since alot of girls look up to guys and usually do what they do that just makes them feel even more insecure. What I think really needs to be done is to get alot of these girls away from these stupid Pop singers/rap singers etc, because they might make good music, they might give a good morals speech and they might have everything, but in reality this is just an image that covers up what they really are. They are just a bunch of low down sluts out for money, thats all it really is popularity and money. Now I know there are some celebs who are genuinely good, but they are few and far between. I just honestly beleive the entertainment industry is not the place especially for impressionateble teens to go looking for role models and professional advice, especially when there are teachers, social workers, PARENTS!!!, and any number of "average joe" type people who may not bring in all the bucks or have all his homies with em but still be able to change someone's life for the better.

Basically the whole article was this big fat thing about morals and personally I feel they were the wrong morals because I have always thought that people should be open about themselves and not leave anything to hide. I think people need to just accept everyone the way they are or at least PRETEND they do, I mean the least they should do is accept people and not give them any slack because they are the way they are, people should be able to go out into public and enjoy themselves and be happy and go on about their lives without ANY negative comments based on sex race, gender, body parts, etc that is just something that should not be accepted, freedom of speech or not, I mean you can have your opinion but you should express it in a civilized way and not be going "youre gay" or "youre a dumba--" or "look at her headlights!". Nobody needs to hear that and everyone is always bitchin about how youre supposed to act in public, yet nobody seems to enforce it, they let people be rude and do their thing and just let everyone decay and as long as this happens nobody is going to be able to go brafree or topfree at least not without some rude unscrupuous person putting in their negative opinion where it is neither asked for nor wanted. Besides it is legal beleive it or not to go topfree most places "except places with dumb municiple codes, which actually defy the the actual state laws that say the opposite", the only thing that stops people from doing it is, municiple codes, cops uneducated about the law, or people who find other means to find an excuse to not allow them to do it. I mean why does Congress have to pass a "yes it really is legal law" just so everyone can take a hint. Most places, the law says that simple topfreedom is not illegal, only if you are topfree doing something sexual or lewd is it considered illegal. It seems most counties and cities use their dumb municipal codes "mine included" to keep people from doing this and they say it is for "the good of the public" and "to keep our good county/city's morals strong". Beleive it or not the only thing you cant have uncovered is a NIPPLE!!!! and they say that covering a nipple is for the good of the public, yet any guy could wiggle his nipple in ur face and not get in trouble for it. Somehow unconvering a female nipple is somehow demoralizing, yet unconvering their breasts themselves isnt but the nipple is the one thing both sexes have and is nearly identical. So my question for them is "what is the friggin point in doing this???????" especially if u got almost 70% of boob fat hanging out for all the world to see and most bikini tops are so small they look dumb and the female would actually look and feel better without it, if it wasnt for their shyness im sure most women would agree. Anyways, I bet that only 1% of the total US female population would take their tops off given the choice, so its like what is the problem, you are not going to have mass droves of women all over the country running around the streets topless, you dont see that in guys, especially these days and thus you wont in women, plain and simple. So why is it a problem that we just dont be good lil politicians and stop whining like 3 yr olds and just make the good ole "yes it really is legal to be topfree law" and just move on to more important issues, because im sure everyone would be alot happier that way and as for it being demoralizing to kids, well all u gotta do is sit down and explain it to them in easy and understanding way and by the time ur done they wont think twice about it.

Anyways thats basically what that was about and I thought it was good to get away from the "I wanna tan my boobs for the summer thing" and talk about something important, I hope some people read this and get something from it. I just had to let my frustrations out because some people still dont get it and I really dont know who to run and yell to as of yet, anyone that would listen to me anyways. Thanks to all if you read this far.
First, I agree that kids dress rather conservatively today compared to the previous generation. I think there are so many factors here- first, the country is more conservative now and kids are less rebellious than during the 'hippie' era 30 years ago. Many school began cracking down on dress in the 1980s and passing dress codes student had to adhere to. Schools are air-conditioned- and often over-air-conditioned to the point some feel like a meat locker. (It's obvious that teachers don't pay the power bill!). And finally, many kids are over-weight- and self-conscious about it, and hide it with loose baggy clothes. And as Ray said- this is even more true of boys than girls.
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Anudist
Anudist

April 10th, 2003, 10:11 pm #7

I think that kids are dressing "sexier" and maybe even "sluttier" than they did in the past.

I can remember the Grunge Look where everything was grossly oversized and multiple layers. Now, I seem to be seeing more mini's and even some micros on girls and lots of skin be it bare legs, bare arms, and or bare middriffs.

I have never seen more navels in an orange grove than I have seen on the street on any given day.

Therefore, I disagree that kids are dressing more conservatively today.

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LeRoy
LeRoy

April 10th, 2003, 10:57 pm #8

I agree with "I disagree"

But why are male swim pants so long?
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Nat
Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

April 11th, 2003, 12:32 am #9

I think that kids are dressing "sexier" and maybe even "sluttier" than they did in the past.

I can remember the Grunge Look where everything was grossly oversized and multiple layers. Now, I seem to be seeing more mini's and even some micros on girls and lots of skin be it bare legs, bare arms, and or bare middriffs.

I have never seen more navels in an orange grove than I have seen on the street on any given day.

Therefore, I disagree that kids are dressing more conservatively today.
"I have never seen more navels in an orange grove than I have seen on the street on any given day."

Well, you may see them on the streets, but you don't in schools. At least not where I live. I can read you the dress code my kids brough home. Everything you mentioned is prohibited- no bare mid-riffs, no string tops, no-tank tops, no short-shorts, no-see-thrus, etc.

But the biggest difference is with the guys- when I was in HS (circa 1970) we wore the tightest pants we could get in to! Many were made of stretchy double-knit fabric that hugged the body like a second skin. If they show a wrinkle or crease they were 'too loose'!

And shorts?- they were really "shorts" in those days- well above the knees- not things that hang half way down the calves kids wear now. Swimsuits- speedos & bikinis. We would have laughed if a guy showed up wearing the long baggy stuff they wear now- only old men wore such things back then!
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Mike
Mike

April 11th, 2003, 1:50 am #10

Of course no girls wear any of that stuff in school because you have all these dumb conservative teachers that come up with these ridiculous dress codes and they say they are trying to show good morals and they do it so that noone disrupts the "educational process". Last time I looked there wasnt any real educational process going on in most schools. Thats why most kids grow up dumb cuz you get these lousy union teachers that spend more time bsing about their pay than teachin these kids which is their job. Personally I think its more important that kids get educated than the teachers getting some large fat chunk of money, most of which dont deserve as much as they fuss about anyways. So when there starts to be an educational process ACTUALLY going on then they can discuss whats disruptive and what isnt. I just think that kids should be able to wear what is comfortable for them to school within reason *no drug, sex, violent or gang attire* although I dont know if id ban that because some teachers have a crazy idea of what is sex and gang attire and they use this to bend the rules to their liking. I just think they need to stop fussin about what kids wear, let em wear what they like and get on with teachin em somethin useful instead of just sittin on their asses whining 24/7. No kid wants to go to school and hear that day in and day out. I should know cuz I go to school and they lecture more about their "hard life" than the lesson at hand and I dont really care how they feel. If im gonna waste my free time comin to school to get an education I expect to learn somethin that time that im there. Anyways as for the shorts thing I dont really worry about it.
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